Trackpoint patents?

User avatar
RickCHodgin

11 Apr 2017, 19:08

Does anybody know if/when the IBM-style trackpoint mouse is/will be out of patents?

I found this reference which seems like it will expire in December of this year:
https://www.google.com/patents/US6115030

I'm working on an alternate Trackpoint design, but if this one is out of patents I may go ahead and design one which works this way.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

User avatar
RickCHodgin

14 Apr 2017, 21:09

I've mostly resolved to go ahead and create a trackpoint based roughly on the IBM design. However, I'm going to introduce a slightly longer stick with more of a movement. One complaint I've always personally had with the trackpoints is you barely have to move them and the mouse moves pretty far. I want a larger degree of movement for fast travel allowing for finer smaller movements. And, I want the stick to move a little easier in each direction.

So, I'll plan for a bottom-mount add-on for all keyboards, with a stick throw of about 1.5" or so, and movements of about 1/8" in each direction for maximum travel speed, with micro-movements possible for minimum travel speed.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

tobsn

28 Apr 2017, 01:16

RickCHodgin wrote: One complaint I've always personally had with the trackpoints is you barely have to move them and the mouse moves pretty far.
Isn't that the whole point of a trackpoint?

User avatar
RickCHodgin

28 Apr 2017, 17:50

tobsn wrote:
RickCHodgin wrote: One complaint I've always personally had with the trackpoints is you barely have to move them and the mouse moves pretty far.
Isn't that the whole point of a trackpoint?
To some extent. I have used a Dell laptop that had a different kind of trackpoint. It was a flat disk near the GHB keys, and it required more of a movement. You could actually feel it moving. It only moved 1/16" or thereabouts, but it was nice.

I just want to have a little more travel for greater precision on small to fast moves. I think I will also make an option to allow it to stick up a little further than traditional trackpoints. Another 3-4 mm would be my target.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

User avatar
cookie

28 Apr 2017, 18:34

RickCHodgin,
based by the avatar of you I can tell that you look like someone who works on the linux kernel in his spare time for fun.
Which is absolutely amazing!

Sorry but I have nothing else to contribute, please don't mind my nonsense.

I wanted to welcome you but it seems you've been around here for a while.

Cheers!

User avatar
RickCHodgin

28 Apr 2017, 20:31

cookie wrote: RickCHodgin,
based by the avatar of you I can tell that you look like someone who works on the linux kernel in his spare time for fun.
Which is absolutely amazing!
Thank you. That type of software development is really very hard work. It requires a real level of devotion and is not for the faint-hearted. When I was doing kernel development (on another project) in my late 20s and early 30s, I could honestly only do it for about 3 hours a day. Developers at those levels have to keep so many things straight in their mind because one mistake here or there and you literally take down every application that relies on that functionality. When coding at those levels, it's just too much stress on the mind to keep going all day. It took me about 30 minutes each day before I even started coding, going back through what I had done previously, looking up specs, refreshing my memory of recent changes, etc. Then I'd start and it took until about 1.5 hours to really get "in the zone," and I could only stay there for another hour or two. Truly exhausting mentally. After that I was spent for the day. I could do physical things, but not deep mental things.

I stopped working on that project in 2002. But, in 2012 I seriously considered completing the GNU HURD kernel (for the GNU project). It was started in the early 90s by GNU and Richard Stallman, but it still hadn't been completed. It is a very complex design, and I had resolved to give my skills to completing it. I contacted Richard about it, and he said that because of the success of Linux their HURD kernel wasn't really needed. He suggested I work on their alternative to the Adobe reader and other such apps. Shortly after that, I created my Liberty Software Foundation and have moved forward ever since, working myself into sickness even in early 2015. I've pared back since then somewhat, but still continue on undaunted. :-)

There's an interesting movie about this if you're interested. It's called Revolution OS and is available on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsHh2wfy_-4

That movie is actually why I wanted to complete the GNU HURD kernel. I wanted to contribute to the people of this world using the skills I possessed.
Sorry but I have nothing else to contribute, please don't mind my nonsense.
I wanted to welcome you but it seems you've been around here for a while.
Cheers!
Much appreciated! :)

Back in the 90s I had a friend from England who used to tell me about Babylon 5. He told me that the transient people who hid out on the station in undocumented ways were called lurkers.

Now, whereas I've been mostly a lurker here until recently ... I haven't ever been that kind of lurker. :)

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

User avatar
cookie

02 May 2017, 13:19

I am glad you took my comment serious, because I mean't it that way.
You guys are real heroes to me, I've never developed something close of such complexity like the Linux Kernel.
There is just too much stuff I lack on my side which is a result of me constantly remaining in my comfort zone.

I found it very difficult to motivate myself into some side projects after work, I rarely program when I come home after a shift of 10+ hours of programing. It's not remotely as challenging as Kernel-Development but the mind is exhausted after that.

I have the absolute most respect for people who continue to train their mind and forge their skill even after work. I wish I were so dedicated!

Anyway, I had great fun reading your response and I will take a look at the youtube video as soon as I come home.

Nice to have you around!

Edit: To just contribute something keyboard related here, Richard Stallman uses a HHKB :mrgreen:

User avatar
RickCHodgin

03 May 2017, 17:48

cookie wrote: I've never developed something close of such complexity like the Linux Kernel.
I've never worked on the Linux kernel. I've looked at the code. Gotten it to compile, etc. But, I've never approached Linux in that way. Just a user. The kernels I've worked on have been from other projects.
I found it very difficult to motivate myself into some side projects after work, I rarely program when I come home after a shift of 10+ hours of programing. It's not remotely as challenging as Kernel-Development but the mind is exhausted after that.
I made myself sick in 2015 by working so hard on my projects. I've had to scale back since then. It's frustrating, but I have enjoyed the other activities. I've mostly done more thing with my family.

These things I do are really very hard work. It takes a tremendous amount of discipline, and I still feel like I fail often because I can't do at 47 the things I did at 27. :-) I feel like I'm slipping away bit by bit (so to speak).
Anyway, I had great fun reading your response and I will take a look at the youtube video as soon as I come home.
I watched it again too after posting it here. Hadn't seen it in a couple years.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

kousuke

26 May 2017, 06:32

It looks like there's a few patents surrounding the trackpoint

here's one for trackpoint(s) that utilise ceramic strain gauge sensor
https://www.google.com.au/patents/US6195082

I'd love to see continued development on GNU Hurd - the Linux monolithic kernel has grown into a massive beast - I wonder how is it going to be sustainable when Linus Torvalds is longer the lead maintainer

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