[Cancelled] VorTex RACE 75% - EUROPEAN DISTRIBUTION

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sixty
Gasbag Guru

20 Mar 2012, 07:22

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Paypal faggots wrote:... da wir bisher nichts von Ihnen gehört haben
Hahahah... oh god guys, my sides.

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Paypal faggots wrote:...nichts von Ihnen gehört haben ...nichts von Ihnen gehört haben ...nichts von Ihnen gehört haben ...nichts von Ihnen gehört haben
Seriously, I almost fell off my chair.

For those not mighty of German: a tl;dr version. Paypal today sent me a "friendly reminder" that my account is still locked as they have not heard anything from me yet. The second screenshots shows some of the ticket-received confirmations in my mailbox, that they have all entirely ignored.

king of dreams

20 Mar 2012, 09:18

Sounds like a typical bullshit delaying tactic.

"Oh no, it couldn't possibly be something wrong with us, you simply haven't sent us the stuff we need. Perhaps your email didn't get through?"

See this kind of crap used all the time when people simply don't want to deal with you.

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phistoh

20 Mar 2012, 11:36

We should all raise some money and hire a good lawyer.

cactux

20 Mar 2012, 11:42

[Account and posts deleted on request]

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Lustique

20 Mar 2012, 12:20

sixty wrote:[...]

Seriously, I almost fell off my chair.

For those not mighty of German: a tl;dr version. Paypal today sent me a "friendly reminder" that my account is still locked as they have not heard anything from me yet. The second screenshots shows some of the ticket-received confirmations in my mailbox, that they have all entirely ignored.
Well, you sent them e-mails, but did you actually talk to them? No wonder they didn't hear from you.
Spoiler:
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Spoiler:
But seriously, I'm glad I never transfer money over the internet. I'm sorry for you, though. :?
cactux wrote:There are some organisations that help for free the consumers. We have this in France, so Germany shall have something similar
Yes, I think that would be a good idea. For sixty this would be the "Verbraucherzentrale", I suppose. With their help I once got my money back from a company I bought a laptop from which was defective. They tried to repair it 2 or 3 times, although the error remained. According to German law I had the right for a full refund after the 2nd or 3rd failed repair attempt, but the company refused to give me my money back, so the "Verbraucherzentrale" got a lawyer who fixed that for me.

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sixty
Gasbag Guru

21 Mar 2012, 14:07

I got a mail today from PayPal. I was pretty excited when I opened it, just for another major let down. After I had taken hours to explain to the PayPal support that I can not provide them shipping numbers for orders that are not yet being produced due to them locking my account, they had removed the request for those last month. Now they now want about 20 tracking numbers again, so we are back to square one.

So yes, we are now officially going in circles and I do not see a potential outcome anymore. It is very clear that they have absolutely no intention of unlocking my account and that they are working with the money.

xbb

21 Mar 2012, 14:11

Reading this http://www.paypalwarning.com/ seems like we can't do anything about it.

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Sugoi

21 Mar 2012, 14:16

phistoh wrote:We should all raise some money and hire a good lawyer.
Don't think that would be worth the trouble. By the time the lawyer gets things "moving" just a bit (if at all) the funds will have been released a long time ago.

Let's just wait until those bloodsuckers unlock sixty's account. It's just another 3 - 4 monts (...). It's hell of an annoyance but it can't be helped.

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Icarium

21 Mar 2012, 14:18

Sugoi wrote: Don't think that would be worth the trouble. By the time the lawyer gets things "moving" just a bit (if at all) the funds will have been released a long time ago.
Well, it may not change much for us but if the way they act is actually illegal it may help others. I know, idealism...

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webwit
Wild Duck

21 Mar 2012, 14:30

xbb wrote:Reading this http://www.paypalwarning.com/ seems like we can't do anything about it.
This is for the US. My accountant told me they probably do this kind of thing not to investigate possible bad accounts, but as a tool to artificially increase quarterly revenues or something similarly evil. And they can because people insist on using paypal even when they know they are evil. The trick is to tell them you want the names and contact information your lawyer needs to contact them, because you will take it to a judge. This will trigger a release procedure in Europe, because they won't take the risk. If you're too much trouble, you represent a cost and not a profit.

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attarian

21 Mar 2012, 14:33

I was thinking this morning about : "paypal".
Are they going down? Is there any chart with "marketplace market share", or "payment method marked share"?

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Lustique

21 Mar 2012, 15:05

xbb wrote:Reading this http://www.paypalwarning.com/ seems like we can't do anything about it.
Isn't that US law? If they operate in the EU, I bet they have to stick to EU law (although Americans/American corporations/the American government tend(s) to ignore this), and I don't think that they can do as they please under EU law, as well. They've got the status "bank" here, by the way.

Thion

21 Mar 2012, 15:32

webwit wrote: The trick is to tell them you want the names and contact information your lawyer needs to contact them, because you will take it to a judge. This will trigger a release procedure in Europe, because they won't take the risk. If you're too much trouble, you represent a cost and not a profit.
Thats exactly what i meant before... could we do that, sixty?

prava

21 Mar 2012, 15:41

The problem is that there are no other safe choices for international money transfers aside of paypal. We should avoid it like the plague in Europe, though...

mintberryminuscrunch

21 Mar 2012, 15:48

if we are lucky we will have an alternative to pp next year
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,15 ... 76,00.html

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Sugoi

21 Mar 2012, 22:31

Icarium wrote:
Sugoi wrote: Don't think that would be worth the trouble. By the time the lawyer gets things "moving" just a bit (if at all) the funds will have been released a long time ago.
Well, it may not change much for us but if the way they act is actually illegal it may help others. I know, idealism...
Well, the way they act is most likely illegal. But I for my part would not be keen at all investing even more time, nerves, and money into this matter.

Besides, a civil lawsuit takes years if both parties decide to fight it out all the way to the highest court. And you can bet that those bloodsuckers will do that. Plus they don't care about the horrendously high expenses for the lawsuit since they have enough money to throw around. We do not.

IMHO we should just wait and learn from this lesson.

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RC-1140

21 Mar 2012, 22:36

has anyone ever thought of contacting a Magazine? Heise's "c't" has got a section called "Vorsicht Kunde" and they often helped customers who had trouble with Paypal. When they are threatened with this becoming public they often act much more friendly. Maybe it's worth a try. I mean: wouldn't a keyboard group buy be a great story for an article?

Thion

21 Mar 2012, 22:41

Sugoi wrote: IMHO we should just wait and learn from this lesson.
Although i embrace the concept of the productivity of doing nothing, i'd be delighted if this could be resolved by some persuasion on our part, like proposed.

Its not like it could get any worse (i hope).

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Sugoi

22 Mar 2012, 00:26

Thion wrote: Although i embrace the concept of the productivity of doing nothing, i'd be delighted if this could be resolved by some persuasion on our part, like proposed.

Its not like it could get any worse (i hope).
Well, as far as I have understood this matter will be "resolved" automatically after 6 months anyways. Basically your intension is to "accelerate" things. But what do you hope to achieve in 3 - 4 months by involving a lawyer?

You would presumably buy yourself one month or so at the very best if at all. In return sixty would have to invest many hours of his time in contacting the lawyer and other related correspondence. Above all the lawyer wants to see money too...

The trick is to tell them you want the names and contact information your lawyer needs to contact them, because you will take it to a judge. This will trigger a release procedure in Europe, because they won't take the risk. If you're too much trouble, you represent a cost and not a profit.
Has a procedure like that actually worked before?

I mean all the contact information you need to know can be found in their imprint on their website... Sounds more like an idle threat... PayPal speculates on the fact that the other side wants prevent any more expenses on their side. And a lawyer isn't cheap. At least that amount of trouble doesn't seem justifiable to me for a such a relatively small amount of money.

But hey, if sixty has got an appropriate legal expenses insurance that covers such a case he can go for it if he feels like it. I for my part am willing to sit this out.
Last edited by Sugoi on 22 Mar 2012, 00:39, edited 1 time in total.

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webwit
Wild Duck

22 Mar 2012, 00:38

Who says you actually hire a lawyer.

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Sugoi

22 Mar 2012, 00:42

webwit wrote:Who says you actually hire a lawyer.
...if I was PayPal I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow unless I actually receive a letter from a lawyer. Barking dogs don't bite. I mean they most likely receive thousands of threats like that every day...

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webwit
Wild Duck

22 Mar 2012, 00:47

Worked for me when I had a problem. Although my lawyer did advise me and sent me a text by email, but this was without charge. You're not in it to proceed to a real case, but you must sound like it. Maybe it helped I was a buyer, a spender.

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sixty
Gasbag Guru

22 Mar 2012, 06:14

webwit wrote:Worked for me when I had a problem. Although my lawyer did advise me and sent me a text by email, but this was without charge. You're not in it to proceed to a real case, but you must sound like it. Maybe it helped I was a buyer, a spender.
Problem is that PayPal blindly ignores everything, perhaps even automated by a blacklist by now. I got a name from one of the guy who handled my phone support, everyone doing the mail support simply does not reply at all. I tried to find a physical address for PayPal, but other than a generic post box, it seems like they are harder to find than a Nigerian eBay scammer.

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Sugoi

22 Mar 2012, 06:53

sixty wrote:...I tried to find a physical address for PayPal, but other than a generic post box, it seems like they are harder to find than a Nigerian eBay scammer.
Maybe this helps: http://www.screw-paypal.com/paypal_cont ... ation.html

PayPal GmbH
Marktplatz 1
Europarc-Dreilinden
Kleinmachnow, D-14532

PayPal-Kundenservice
Postfach 750263
60532 Frankfurt/Main


By the way, here's something I found on the website above:
http://www.screw-paypal.com/history.html
...
...
4. If you ARE frozen, accept the reality that this isn't some mistake that can be corrected by an e-mail or phone call to a nice customer service person; you've been SCREWED, and it's NO accident or misunderstanding. This company is now your enemy and is probably not inclined to do anything to help you, unless you're one of those unfrozen for "show" purposed as described above- but I'll bet they don't even account for 2%. So don't waste your time with "customer-no-service" e-mails and phone calls. Yes, most of the contact numbers listed on this site are accurate and the people listed are real employees- but believe me; they generally have NO power to say anything but "NO." If you've been frozen, your "case" goes to a special group within "customer service" who's entire mission statement could be summed up as "we've got the money, we're going to keep the money, so explain this to the customer in any plausible fashion- as long as the final answer remains ''we get to keep the money'." Also, these folks will often be extremely rude to you- which is all part of the plan; you weren't really supposed to call them in the first place, and they don't want you to even THINK about calling back. Those repeated requests for copies of drivers licenses and so forth are simply a ruse and a stall tactic. Believe me... they KNOW who you are, and this information does NOT keep getting misplaced. They're wearing you down, and it usually works. By the THIRD request for you to gather and send the same information, they most people will simply give up and say "it's not worth it." Don't threaten to sue or waste your money having a lawyer send PP a threatening letter, 'cause it doesn't work. People who SAY "I'm gonna sue" DON'T 99.9% of the time, and PP knows this. What DOES work is to hire an attorney and actually FILE SUIT. When they're hit with requests for discovery and are faced with having to send executives to depositions and so forth- most of the time your case will be "re-investigated". You'll then be cleared and your money will be returned. If that doesn't fix it, then, for some reason Pay-Pay must really, really feel that you ARE scamming. Most people simply won't go this far, since hiring an attorney, filing suit and so forth actually exceeds what PP has taken from you- and believe me, they DO know this. (exactly what I was saying)
...
....
Anonymous -- Ex PayPal Manager

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webwit
Wild Duck

22 Mar 2012, 13:25

sixty wrote:Problem is that PayPal blindly ignores everything, perhaps even automated by a blacklist by now. I got a name from one of the guy who handled my phone support, everyone doing the mail support simply does not reply at all. I tried to find a physical address for PayPal, but other than a generic post box, it seems like they are harder to find than a Nigerian eBay scammer.
They see it. They just need flooding.

cactux

22 Mar 2012, 13:32

[Account and posts deleted on request]

rodtang

22 Mar 2012, 13:35

cactux wrote:we need to hire an spamer ;-)
We found a use for glossy, or myself for that matter, I'd do it just as well.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

22 Mar 2012, 14:49

rodtang wrote:
cactux wrote:we need to hire an spamer ;-)
We found a use for glossy [...]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

ripster

22 Mar 2012, 15:07

I find the bullying of GW offensive.

Sent From Brother Ripster's iPad

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

22 Mar 2012, 15:42

ripster wrote:I find the bullying of GW offensive.
Come on, grant him being in the middle of attention instead of you.


Wikipedia, Seven deadly sins:
[...] those who commit the sin of envy not only resent that another person has something they perceive themselves as lacking, but also wish the other person to be deprived of it.

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