Future of mechanical switches? which one is the best?
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- Location: Lebanon
- Main keyboard: g810
- Main mouse: g pro
- Favorite switch: red switch
- DT Pro Member: -
I've tried multiple switches from the cherrys to razer, steelseries and logitech. Although there's a keyboard that got my attention called Bloody B810R from a company based in Taiwan, they claim that its the fastest response switch available also known as the LK (light strike switch). Tesoro is another company that manufacture optical keyboards like bloody. Recently the well known BenQ made the CELERITAS II Keyboard for e-Sports which uses the optical flaretech switch (adomax).
moreover, The wooting one is a very interesting keyboard that uses optical switches in a way that makes it a keyboard and a joystick! The switch determines how far you press the key which makes it ideal for racing games.
Finally there's the hall effect switch, which dates back to the late 70's it's a contact-less form switch which uses a magnet passed by a sensor. A chinese company made the XMIT Hall Effect keyboard.
so, whats the future of the mechanical switch? whether from the contact-less switches optical and the hall effect or from the different cherry, topre and gateron?
moreover, The wooting one is a very interesting keyboard that uses optical switches in a way that makes it a keyboard and a joystick! The switch determines how far you press the key which makes it ideal for racing games.
Finally there's the hall effect switch, which dates back to the late 70's it's a contact-less form switch which uses a magnet passed by a sensor. A chinese company made the XMIT Hall Effect keyboard.
so, whats the future of the mechanical switch? whether from the contact-less switches optical and the hall effect or from the different cherry, topre and gateron?
- kbdfr
- The Tiproman
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Main keyboard: Tipro MID-QM-128A + two Tipro matrix modules
- Main mouse: Contour Rollermouse Pro
- Favorite switch: Cherry black
- DT Pro Member: 0010
Welcome to Deskthority, the calm, placid and serene place to discuss keyboards7amda wrote: ↑...and still no reply xD
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- Location: Lebanon
- Main keyboard: g810
- Main mouse: g pro
- Favorite switch: red switch
- DT Pro Member: -
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I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning.
I think new tech like NEW (not honeywell) hall effect stuff will be a bit more mainstream once there are more types like clicky and tactile, though I don't think Bloody's switch will really take over soon. But we will see. I only typed on one at a store and it was terrible (very short travel and tacky as hell). Maybe they should get out other ones.
Gaming will always be the dominant reason for most average joes (not enthusiasts) to buy mechs, unless prices really go down and we start seeing them bundled with OEM desktops.
I think new tech like NEW (not honeywell) hall effect stuff will be a bit more mainstream once there are more types like clicky and tactile, though I don't think Bloody's switch will really take over soon. But we will see. I only typed on one at a store and it was terrible (very short travel and tacky as hell). Maybe they should get out other ones.
Gaming will always be the dominant reason for most average joes (not enthusiasts) to buy mechs, unless prices really go down and we start seeing them bundled with OEM desktops.
- PlacaFromHell
- Location: Argentina
- Main keyboard: IBM 3101
- Main mouse: Optical piece of shit
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
Welcome! Do not despair, sometimes you won't get replies at all.
About the gaming switches, I think would be cool to have some hall effect maglev-like analogic switches or at least capacitive analogic switches, anyway BS gaming is really cool! About typing switches, I think there is no more to do with them.
About the gaming switches, I think would be cool to have some hall effect maglev-like analogic switches or at least capacitive analogic switches, anyway BS gaming is really cool! About typing switches, I think there is no more to do with them.
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- Location: Lebanon
- Main keyboard: g810
- Main mouse: g pro
- Favorite switch: red switch
- DT Pro Member: -
i don't see the hall effect keyboard interesting as the optical switch. Both optical and hall effect switches are rated @ 100 mill keystrokes. The wooting one seems like the future keyboard to me since the sensor determines how far you press thew key, i mean that is super interesting for a keyboard! The premium kit comes with a tactile blue and the linear reds switches, you can easily swap them with the puller. it also uses cherry stems for custom keycaps.green-squid wrote: ↑I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning.
I think new tech like NEW (not honeywell) hall effect stuff will be a bit more mainstream once there are more types like clicky and tactile, though I don't think Bloody's switch will really take over soon. But we will see. I only typed on one at a store and it was terrible (very short travel and tacky as hell). Maybe they should get out other ones.
Gaming will always be the dominant reason for most average joes (not enthusiasts) to buy mechs, unless prices really go down and we start seeing them bundled with OEM desktops.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I guess I'd go for whichever one uses less power to operate. I want to get my hands on [wiki]Tokai SPT-0101[/wiki], an optical switch that takes Alps keycaps. Sadly I think I found those just after Tokai went bust, so I was not able to ask about them :(
- just_add_coffee
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Model F AT, Batwing Ergodox
- Main mouse: Microsoft Trackball Explorer 1.0
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
The future of ALL switches is zilch. Nada. Nothing. The near-future is voice, and the not-too-distant-future is thought. But in the here-and-now, the best mechanical switch is old school IBM buckling spring, though if you like artisan keysets, keycaps, customization, color, etc., you should give the newest Kailh offerings a look.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Model F122
- Main mouse: M510
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
Count me out of that vision of the future. If my computer knows what I'm thinking, so will the government. They may not care that I hate their kleptocratic oligarchy with a passion, or maybe they will. Whatever. Not my kind of future. But I agree with you, that's the direction we're going - voice and then thought. However, we would need a new user interface for that... imagine talking to your computer: "Key up, key up, key up, type blah blah, key left, backspace..."just_add_coffee wrote: ↑The future of ALL switches is zilch. Nada. Nothing. The near-future is voice, and the not-too-distant-future is thought.
Last edited by ClickMe on 06 Feb 2018, 06:04, edited 4 times in total.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
If a computer tuned into my thoughts, it would immediately catch fire.ClickMe wrote: ↑Count me out of that vision of the future. :cry: If my computer knows what I'm thinking, so will the government.
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- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
The future is silent, tactile, smooth, stable and ... low-profile (whether you like it or not).
The objective benefits that mechanical keyboards have brought have been mid-point actuation with overtravel for cushioning for less tired fingers, NKRO and being able to customise/mod/build your own.
Combine those properties with the those at the top and you have got something.
Many people have got used to rubber domes being silent and do not want to give that up.
Others have got used to smooth switches and do not want to give that up.
Enthusiasts who don't care about smoothness and stability (Alps-lovers) or silence (clicky switch lovers) or tactility (lovers of vintage linears) are actually in the minority. That is when enthusiasts who spend mucho on Topre (silent, tactile, smooth and stable but tiresome for fingers) are growing.
The objective benefits that mechanical keyboards have brought have been mid-point actuation with overtravel for cushioning for less tired fingers, NKRO and being able to customise/mod/build your own.
Combine those properties with the those at the top and you have got something.
Many people have got used to rubber domes being silent and do not want to give that up.
Others have got used to smooth switches and do not want to give that up.
Enthusiasts who don't care about smoothness and stability (Alps-lovers) or silence (clicky switch lovers) or tactility (lovers of vintage linears) are actually in the minority. That is when enthusiasts who spend mucho on Topre (silent, tactile, smooth and stable but tiresome for fingers) are growing.
Last edited by Findecanor on 06 Feb 2018, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
- Elrick
- Location: Swan View, AUSTRALIA
- Main keyboard: Alps - As much as Possible.
- Main mouse: MX518
- Favorite switch: Navy Switch, ALPs, Model-M
- DT Pro Member: -
Don't think any Computer could ever read my mind because I'm about as complicated as Vegemite on Toast.
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- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
We would need "neural nanonics" before computers could read our minds. Anything on the outside of the head would be too imprecise.
I have played "mind ball" games a few times with EEG sensors on my head. You control that by blanking your mind, like when you meditate. That is totally opposite to using it as a tool.
I have played "mind ball" games a few times with EEG sensors on my head. You control that by blanking your mind, like when you meditate. That is totally opposite to using it as a tool.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Model F122
- Main mouse: M510
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
I think any civilized AI computer would be taken aback to find out that you are spreading Vegemite on your toast and not delicious Nutella.Elrick wrote: ↑I'm about as complicated as Vegemite on Toast.
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
I would hate to be in a public place with everyone speaking out loud whatever they wanted to put into their computers.
I disagree. Cherry is still the only manufacturer that proves that their switches hit 50 million actuations per switch whereas the chinese manufactures mainly advertise it as up to 50/70 million actuations. I wonder what numbers Cherry would reach in that regard. Also Cherry stepped up their game with the new retooled blacks and also with the best pricing on the market. Loose Cherry switches are available for 0.22$ each, that's a pricing where no other switch can compete imo. Also Cherry has the best reputation on the biggest market of the world, they will definetly fight back in future.green-squid wrote: ↑I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning
- Wodan
- ISO Advocate
- Location: ISO-DE
- Main keyboard: Intense Rotation!!!
- Main mouse: Logitech G903
- Favorite switch: ALL OF THEM
- DT Pro Member: -
I consider the mechanical keyboard a rapidly growing market currently and think there is plenty of room for switch manufacturers ...
Cherry is finally waking up, the Chinese companies still have to grow up. Making good switches is only half the job. You have to prove yourself as a reliable, professional partner for a long term product portfolio. That means making the identical switch for more than 6 months ... yeah Gateron, I am talking to you.
And even at 0.22$ I am sure Cherry switches are still a lot more expensive than their Chinese clones. The prices we pay for Gaterons and Kailh switches probably makes them laugh in China, the wholesale prices for these switches must be a fraction of that.
Cherry is finally waking up, the Chinese companies still have to grow up. Making good switches is only half the job. You have to prove yourself as a reliable, professional partner for a long term product portfolio. That means making the identical switch for more than 6 months ... yeah Gateron, I am talking to you.
And even at 0.22$ I am sure Cherry switches are still a lot more expensive than their Chinese clones. The prices we pay for Gaterons and Kailh switches probably makes them laugh in China, the wholesale prices for these switches must be a fraction of that.
- vometia
- irritant
- Location: Somewhere in England
- Main keyboard: Durrr-God with fancy keycaps
- Main mouse: Roccat Malarky
- Favorite switch: Avocent Thingy
- DT Pro Member: 0184
I must admit to also not liking Cherries particularly, although that's purely a matter of taste and I'm a buckling spring girl. But they're certainly ubiquitous and are largely responsible for a bit of a renaissance of the mechanical keyboard, the alternatives to which are too awful to contemplate.green-squid wrote: ↑I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning.
ewFindecanor wrote: ↑The future is silent, tactile, smooth, stable and ... low-profile (whether you like it or not).
Certainly agree with the BS, and I really do go green with envy at the nice retro caps available for the other mechanical models. Not familiar with Kailh though, that one has somehow passed me by.just_add_coffee wrote: ↑The future of ALL switches is zilch. Nada. Nothing. The near-future is voice, and the not-too-distant-future is thought. But in the here-and-now, the best mechanical switch is old school IBM buckling spring, though if you like artisan keysets, keycaps, customization, color, etc., you should give the newest Kailh offerings a look.
I'm also not desperately keen on a future where voice is the only thing, though I was genuinely surprised and impressed that my gf's wireless telephone could actually decipher my accent and mumbling with a startling degree of accuracy: prior to that my experience had only been online banking where "yes", "no" and a single-digit number had a significantly less than 50% success rate. But voice-activated gaming? Nah.
- just_add_coffee
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Model F AT, Batwing Ergodox
- Main mouse: Microsoft Trackball Explorer 1.0
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
That's kinda where I'm coming from. Voice has come a long way over the last few years, and it will only get better given the commonality of voice-operated devices like Google Home, Alexa, Siri, Cortana, etc. Even on my 3-year old Huawei Nexus phone, I almost always use "Ok Google" to send text messages or to find out where Rufus Sewell is from.vometia wrote: ↑ I'm also not desperately keen on a future where voice is the only thing, though I was genuinely surprised and impressed that my gf's wireless telephone could actually decipher my accent and mumbling with a startling degree of accuracy: prior to that my experience had only been online banking where "yes", "no" and a single-digit number had a significantly less than 50% success rate. But voice-activated gaming? Nah.
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- Location: --
- Main keyboard: --
- Main mouse: --
- Favorite switch: --
- DT Pro Member: -
Where can you buy MX blues for that price? I am curious.hansichen wrote: ↑I disagree. Cherry is still the only manufacturer that proves that their switches hit 50 million actuations per switch whereas the chinese manufactures mainly advertise it as up to 50/70 million actuations. I wonder what numbers Cherry would reach in that regard. Also Cherry stepped up their game with the new retooled blacks and also with the best pricing on the market. Loose Cherry switches are available for 0.22$ each, that's a pricing where no other switch can compete imo. Also Cherry has the best reputation on the biggest market of the world, they will definetly fight back in future.green-squid wrote: ↑I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning
- just_add_coffee
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Model F AT, Batwing Ergodox
- Main mouse: Microsoft Trackball Explorer 1.0
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
It would be annoying, both to listen to others doing it and advertising to the world what you're searching Google for.fohat wrote: ↑I would hate to be in a public place with everyone speaking out loud whatever they wanted to put into their computers.
But the glorious free market will offer us a solution!
Pretty sure our future looks like something out of Black Mirror, on the way to becoming the Borg.
- Wodan
- ISO Advocate
- Location: ISO-DE
- Main keyboard: Intense Rotation!!!
- Main mouse: Logitech G903
- Favorite switch: ALL OF THEM
- DT Pro Member: -
God damnit why do you have to bring up MX blues. And why would you want to BUY those?green-squid wrote: ↑
Where can you buy MX blues for that price? I am curious.
I am having a hard time finding places to safely dispose of them.
You don‘t buy MX blues, they are more like something you wake up with after a drunk night at the recycler. You make em some eggs and call them a cab. Then you burn your bed sheets and pour some chlorine oder your genitals.
Just my opinions on clicky MX switches
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I would love to try them out. I have only tried clicky switches once, like went over with them with my fingers on an old laptop. I left it there to think about buying and looked around a bit at the flea market, and when I came back, it was GONE!Wodan wrote: ↑God damnit why do you have to bring up MX blues. And why would you want to BUY those?green-squid wrote: ↑
Where can you buy MX blues for that price? I am curious.
I am having a hard time finding places to safely dispose of them.
You don‘t buy MX blues, they are more like something you wake up with after a drunk night at the recycler. You make em some eggs and call them a cab. Then you burn your bed sheets and pour some chlorine oder your genitals.
Just my opinions on clicky MX switches
They mustn't be that bad!
- Wodan
- ISO Advocate
- Location: ISO-DE
- Main keyboard: Intense Rotation!!!
- Main mouse: Logitech G903
- Favorite switch: ALL OF THEM
- DT Pro Member: -
The bad thing about artificially clicky switches is that they either have a discrete component to click that will decouple the click from the actuation or are somehow engineered to click when actuating.
If you want clicks, get a Model F ... they're the real thing.
Other than that, it's super hard to really judge MX Blues since they are amongst the oldest MX designs and have greatly varied in their click experience over time and wear. I mean they're on the market for more than 30 years ...
The switch mounting also plays a MAJOR role when evaluating clicky switches since the right plate, tighly mounted, can really improve the acoustic.
If you want clicks, get a Model F ... they're the real thing.
Other than that, it's super hard to really judge MX Blues since they are amongst the oldest MX designs and have greatly varied in their click experience over time and wear. I mean they're on the market for more than 30 years ...
The switch mounting also plays a MAJOR role when evaluating clicky switches since the right plate, tighly mounted, can really improve the acoustic.
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- Location: --
- Main keyboard: --
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- Favorite switch: --
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I see. I wish I had money for those good clicky switches. They must be so good, but I never find them at the flea market. You find them every month! Lucky.Wodan wrote: ↑The bad thing about artificially clicky switches is that they either have a discrete component to click that will decouple the click from the actuation or are somehow engineered to click when actuating.
If you want clicks, get a Model F ... they're the real thing.
Other than that, it's super hard to really judge MX Blues since they are amongst the oldest MX designs and have greatly varied in their click experience over time and wear. I mean they're on the market for more than 30 years ...
The switch mounting also plays a MAJOR role when evaluating clicky switches since the right plate, tighly mounted, can really improve the acoustic.
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- Location: Lebanon
- Main keyboard: g810
- Main mouse: g pro
- Favorite switch: red switch
- DT Pro Member: -
i never tried the old keyboard models from IBM and others, but willing to get one soon a model M or F .
IMO the contact-less switch seems promising in terms of durability and lifespan like the optical and the hall effect.
IMO the contact-less switch seems promising in terms of durability and lifespan like the optical and the hall effect.