F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[FXT]

If I like my F77 I'll probably place an order for an F62 in the second round so I can complete my 4704 collection. Not interested in the F50 so that doesn't count IMO.

[snuci]

If you want F107 or F122 foam please order soon. I have only 4 left of the F122/F107 foam and that will be it for early shipping (the rest will ship later this year).

Quick question Ellipse. Is the F107 foam usable as a direct replacement for the original F107 foam?

Thanks.

[Ellipse]

Yep, same for the F122 foam. The first new production foams went out last week. So far so good in terms of responses.

[enrique.aliaga]

Quick question: What is the exact shade of blue of the "Industrial SSK Blue Keys" item in the store? Item is here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... blue-keys/

Is it just plain "Unicomp" standard blue? Or is it exactly like the keys in the Industrial IBM Model M SSK?

"Unicomp" blue:



Industrial blue:

[FXT]

Ha, that was my SSK before I sold it. That picture really doesn't do the Unicomp blue justice, it was a lighter shade of blue but still much darker than IBM industrial blue.



I believe that Ellipse is going for an exact copy of IBM Industrial Blue with his reproduction keycaps.

[Elrick]

I believe that Ellipse is going for an exact copy of IBM Industrial Blue with his reproduction keycaps.

Thank Gawd for that.

Any other darker shade of Blue and all the Legends will disappear into it.

[Wolf123rt]

Quick question: What is the exact shade of blue of the "Industrial SSK Blue Keys" item in the store? Item is here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... blue-keys/

Is it just plain "Unicomp" standard blue? Or is it exactly like the keys in the Industrial IBM Model M SSK?

On his website he says "Those are prototype photos, including caps from Unicomp. I am ordering brand new caps including custom mixed blue PBT to match the lighter Industrial SSK blue."

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questio ... -too-dark/

[Elrick]

Industrial blue:

I would call this BABY-Blue.

Same colour as my minion's clothing bought at Target.

Beaut & easy to view colour that doesn't upset the colour blind nor become too dark when viewing at night.

[Darkshado]

Any comparison shots between the "Mopar" SSK blue and the "light blue" on Unicomp's site?

[Ellipse]

One of the two new key molds has passed my examination of the sample parts (the mold containing the 1U cavities) so the 1U keys are approved for production! The keys meet all dimensions' tolerance measurements (+/- 0.1 mm!); the key tops are richly textured like those of the brand new original Model F's in my collection. They interact with both new and original barrels smoothly.

Unfortunately the second mold with the other keys needs some more adjustment.

The black PBT from the new production keys is of excellent quality and texture; I do not see circular areas of excessive shine on the tops characteristic of the original black keys.

The F107/F122 foam from this batch has all sold out (unless the forum member I just reached out to decides they do not want the foam early - then there will be one left) but more will be on the way in a month or so.

[__red__]

The F107/F122 foam from this batch has all sold out (unless the forum member I just reached out to decides they do not want the foam early - then there will be one left) but more will be on the way in a month or so.

ETA on shipping the Barrels and Flippers I ordered?

[Ellipse]

Shipping for everyone should start in July/August if all goes well.

I have extra XT style barrels available now if anyone needs them.

[Wolf123rt]

Any update on the springs? On Jan 31st you said the spring samples were on their way but they haven't been talked about since then.

[Ellipse]

The Japanese material springs were technically perfect, within spec, but too quiet - higher end than what IBM used! They lacked the full volume Model F resonance after a pressed key is released. The factory is sourcing the same spring material from the material analysis report but from other factories (same spring factory though). Not all materials of the same grade are exactly the same or sound the same as I've learned. I've gone through about 20 unique spring production runs over the span of this project so far. We are getting there!

[Elrick]

The Japanese material springs were technically perfect, within spec, but too quiet - higher end than what IBM used!

Some users may like that of course, due to hating the fully enveloping sound of a Model-F spring in full flight.

They lacked the full volume Model F resonance after a pressed key is released. The factory is sourcing the same spring material from the material analysis report but from other factories (same spring factory though).

Exactly, that is why people such as I would use a Model-F like this 24/7 if need be. It has to sound like a Church Pipe Organ, it shakes the foundations like the Glory of God when this keyboard is used.

This keyboard needs to be heard everywhere within a 20km radius because it's the resonance of Purity which can never be ignored or degraded by any blasphemer.

Not all materials of the same grade are exactly the same or sound the same as I've learned. I've gone through about 20 unique spring production runs over the span of this project so far. We are getting there!

Like the search for the Holy Grail it shall test you Ellipse but I have faith, your pursuit of the Perfect Model-F keyboard will be triumphant .

[andrea-i]

Really this project looses me on this whole springs business : (
So, Ellipse has tried springs that were even better than the originals and discarded them.
Why replicating something when you can reinterpret it your own way, I will never get that part of this beautiful project, sorry.

[j0d1]

It would not be a Model F replica with a modern form factor if the springs were feeling different.

Also, a lot of people are buying those keyboards because they love the tactility and sound of Model F buckling springs. Nobody knows the tactility and sound of "better material than IBM yet more quiet, not like what you know but trust me with your 500$ on this". I personally LOVE the tactility of the XT so I hope the replica will be near that model.

[andrea-i]

Points of view I guess.
Personally, I don't love the idea of buying a $400+ dollars replica neither.

I'd have put these keyboards in the hands of people like Chyros a while ago, unlocked the product with stock unicomp keycaps and new-different springs with similar weight to accelerate shipping and build up a real market for this product.
Then there could have been a second round of refined accessories: new keycaps, super identical springs (call them vintage springs), replica labels and many other things for the vintage IBM lovers.

I guess this is probably useless fuzz anyway because Ellipse is probably waiting on other components, so the springs can move forward at their own pace without blocking the project.
And I know everybody here has expressed a different point of view from that of Ellipse's on many topics already, but at the end of the day it's his project and we can only be grateful : )

[Elrick]

Points of view I guess.
Personally, I don't love the idea of buying a $400+ dollars replica neither.

It's far more than just a simple Replica.

unlocked the product with stock unicomp keycaps and new-different springs with similar weight to accelerate shipping and build up a real market for this product.

Very glad you're not running this Group Buy.

I guess this is probably useless fuzz anyway because Ellipse is probably waiting on other components, so the springs can move forward at their own pace without blocking the project.

Correct.

And I know everybody here has expressed a different point of view from that of Ellipse's on many topics already, but at the end of the day it's his project and we can only be grateful : )

Again correct, let the 'Artist' progress at his own pace.

[andrea-i]

unlocked the product with stock unicomp keycaps and new-different springs with similar weight to accelerate shipping and build up a real market for this product.

Very glad you're not running this Group Buy.

For the sake of logic alone I can't understand your point, but I respect the religious fold this thread has taken

So, rather than receiving your new shiny Model F early (assuming that it was even an option, I don't even now : ), still with the option to enrich it later and make it become the exact replica you've been waiting for, you say you prefer to wait for the final 100% match, risking anyway it won't be a 100% match.

Might be my software dev mindset, but I'd rather choose to release early, fail early, fix early.

[TerminalJunkie]

Ellipse, have you decided which keys to print?

I believe it's been said before that you will print full 103-key sets for US and whatever national layouts that people have requested, as well as HHKB additions (Control, \|, Fn) and number keys with F1, etc., printed on the front. Is this still the case?

What will the 1u "windows" keys between Ctrl and Alt have on them?

Is there an opportunity to add additional keys at this point? Personally, I'd be interested in adding 1.5u Fn, Meta, Super, Command, and AltGr keys, as well as 1u Fn, Super, Option, and Control keys. Maybe a 1.75u backspace also. (And some additional blanks to have on hand.) If possible, what would the MOQ be for such additional dyesubs?

The is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get a wider variety of keys without the blur and misalignment that Unicomp is notorious for.

[Elrick]

The is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get a wider variety of keys without the blur and misalignment that Unicomp is notorious for.

The difference between Ellipse's future PBT dye-subs verses Unicomp's, is that Ellipse actually cares about the quality and finish compared to a company who couldn't give a toss.

That would be the ONLY reason why Ellipse's version will be far better. Dye-sub work is tedious and monotonous but the quality has to be there along that whole process.

His dye-sub work will be far better than what even IBM had produced, many decades before .

[darkcruix]

His dye-sub work will be far better than what even IBM had produced, many decades before .

How do we know it will be that good? The process is highly complex - especially in mass production. Even the feathering and sublimation is fine initially, the variation can be huge by just changes in the ambient temperature or air moisture. The alignment in a longer production cycle is a huge problem as well. You'd need a constant QA going on.
I am looking forward to see the results but there is a chance that this process alone can cause the timeline to move out a few months (plus re-doing of keys etc).

[Elrick]

I am looking forward to see the results but there is a chance that this process alone can cause the timeline to move out a few months (plus re-doing of keys etc).

Not for those who have original Model-F key-caps ready to be installed into their F77's.

Would be interested in Ellipse's new batch of key-caps, for the second order.

[wobbled]

Its a good job I prefer blank keycaps

[Khers]

WRT timelines, I've long since stopped caring about that when it comes to this project. The keyboards are done when they're done, and I appreciate that and Ellipse's attention to detail. Quite frankly, given how long time has passed since I bought in, I couldn't care less if I got my F62 this year or next. Or just in time for Christmas 2025. With that said, however, I don't quite see the point in continuously providing a shipping estimate when that has proven not to work so many times before. For those of us who got in early, it just means that the credibility of such a statement is further decreased every time an estimate is adjusted, while those who have joined at a later stage might actually believe the estimate and get disappointed when it fails.

Anyway; I saw this GB over on GH and thought it would be a neat addition to my Ellipsesaver. However, before committing, I would want to know where the xwhatsit controller is located in the case, i.e. how much cable is required before exiting the case. Just a rough estimate; should I put the keyboard connector on the 150 mm or the 500 mm side of the coil?

[JP!]

WRT timelines, I've long since stopped caring about that when it comes to this project. The keyboards are done when they're done, and I appreciate that and Ellipse's attention to detail. Quite frankly, given how long time has passed since I bought in, I couldn't care less if I got my F62 this year or next. Or just in time for Christmas 2025. With that said, however, I don't quite see the point in continuously providing a shipping estimate when that has proven not to work so many times before. For those of us who got in early, it just means that the credibility of such a statement is further decreased every time an estimate is adjusted, while those who have joined at a later stage might actually believe the estimate and get disappointed when it fails.

Anyway; I saw this GB over on GH and thought it would be a neat addition to my Ellipsesaver. However, before committing, I would want to know where the xwhatsit controller is located in the case, i.e. how much cable is required before exiting the case. Just a rough estimate; should I put the keyboard connector on the 150 mm or the 500 mm side of the coil?

I'm getting some of those cables as well but I will get usb c connectors for some of my projects since I am using usb adapters to go from type B to C. The two adapters I use add about 300 mm inside a keyboard. I would think the 150 mm side should connect to the keyboard for aesthetics but 150 mm is likely too short to directly plug into an xwhatsit.

Edit: On the order order form there is a comment field where you can specify custom dimensions.

[FXT]

WRT timelines, I've long since stopped caring about that when it comes to this project. The keyboards are done when they're done, and I appreciate that and Ellipse's attention to detail. Quite frankly, given how long time has passed since I bought in, I couldn't care less if I got my F62 this year or next. Or just in time for Christmas 2025. With that said, however, I don't quite see the point in continuously providing a shipping estimate when that has proven not to work so many times before. For those of us who got in early, it just means that the credibility of such a statement is further decreased every time an estimate is adjusted, while those who have joined at a later stage might actually believe the estimate and get disappointed when it fails.

Anyway; I saw this GB over on GH and thought it would be a neat addition to my Ellipsesaver. However, before committing, I would want to know where the xwhatsit controller is located in the case, i.e. how much cable is required before exiting the case. Just a rough estimate; should I put the keyboard connector on the 150 mm or the 500 mm side of the coil?

I'd be happy to get my F77 by the end of the year, preferably in time for my birthday in December. Then I'll decide if I want an F62 or not. Thanks for linking that group buy, I just put myself down for two black cables to match the coiled black cable on my XT.

[j0d1]

From the pictures of the F77, the cable is not removable, right? I will probably get a coiled cable too and I want to make sure I pick the right one.

[darkcruix]

Just in case I gave the wrong impression. I am happy that Ellipse is doing this project in exactly the way he is doing it. I have enough of half-baked gadgets and all the "minimal viable products" which are flooding the world (to be thrown out after a few months). I'd rather wait until 2020+ but have an Ellipse product.
In contrary - I started to name a good, well done item of high quality as "Ellipse-oid".