Daskeyboard Pro 4 and Matias Tactile Pro with Bouncing Issues

[squizzler]

Well, see if it *keeps working* every time the switches degrade. There’s more going on than something turning wobbly. They break down electrically, which no amount of manual wiggling will ultimately reverse.

I'd have thought that would depend how the switch has "broken down electrically" I envisioned that by pushing the key down (closing the contacts) and wiggling in in the full range of movement it might be rubbing off any patina that might have built up on the surfaces. I also speculated that the contacts might wander around a bit and that by giving them a wriggle they could re-centre themselves.

All I can say it has worked to restore my (relatively young) Matias QC switches, and I has saved me having to return the product.

I notice a lot of the incidences of chatter correspond with catching a glancing blow on the key you intended to hit or not driving the key through the full action of the switch. The bounce issue - as I am experiencing it - is as a feature not a bug as it is training me to strike the keys more cleanly and consistently. Probably why I might be coming across as somewhat defensive of this perceived failing in this thread.

[Muirium]

So you *want* your keyboards to break down on you as some form of instructional punishment? Fascinating…



Maybe good old Matias ought to mention that in the marketing.

[Hypersphere]

Maybe it's like doing lab experiments. You don't learn anything if the experiment works, but if it fails, you have to figure out why, and from this you gain knowledge and understanding.

However, when it comes to commercial products, such as keyboards, I would expect the company to have done the experiments and to have learned from the failures, so that when they deliver the product, it is as good as it can be.

[Typed on my new Realforce R2 PFU TKL 45g Topre-switch board. No chattering. No missed keypresses. No binding.]

[squizzler]

Maybe it's like doing lab experiments. You don't learn anything if the experiment works, but if it fails, you have to figure out why, and from this you gain knowledge and understanding.

However, when it comes to commercial products, such as keyboards, I would expect the company to have done the experiments and to have learned from the failures, so that when they deliver the product, it is as good as it can be.

[Typed on my new Realforce R2 PFU TKL 45g Topre-switch board. No chattering. No missed keypresses. No binding.]

On the topic of scientific experimentation, I'm still hoping that somebody else on here can confirm or deny from their own experimentation whether I'm alone in having success with the "key massage" technique previously described. Maybe the OP can tell me whether it is making his board a little bit less bad?

In due course I'll treat myself to something better than KBParadise I am currently running in the fullness of time, even though its idiosyncrasies actually add a little charm as fas as I am concerned. Like you I am considering a contactless design of switch for when I do so. I'm glad you are enjoying your Realforce. I might consider one of those. There is also the new build of IBM F-types elsewhere on this forum, and Varmilo is busy introducing capacitive versions of the more familiar style of switch. Lots of choice!

[Muirium]

Pretty much any keyboard, of whatever variety or cheapness, will make a refreshing improvement in reliability terms over recent Matias switches! You don’t need a Topre just to type, but I can confirm they do indeed achieve that significant yet mundane feat.

[squizzler]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me about how you got on with kneading your switches back to life. I'm sure you must have a Matias equipped 'board or two to have become so expert in the failings of these switches

[Muirium]

Yeah, you can well picture me mashing my faulty keys in the anxious hope they teach me my lesson!

I’ve used Matias boards, but I’ve never held onto them. Even when new, the switches aren’t up to much, and the caps aren’t any better. This was back before their supplier started conning them with failing switches, too.

Meanwhile, every recent Matias keyboard we hear about on the forum soon goes wrong. When your product has a massive failure rate you’d rather not acknowledge, the internet can sure be a bitch!

[Hypersphere]

I have some KBP V60 boards with Matias Quiet and Matias Click switches purchased during 2014 and 2015 that are still working just fine. I think this was before the QC issues that Matias has been having with the Chinese manufacturers.

[vometia]

Such a shame that Matias have terrible QA and a shitty attitude to their customers: their keyboard would be lovely otherwise, but... well, they're sort of the Bethesda Softworks of the keyboard world. And keyboard co the EA Games. I'm sort of giving up on the idea of getting a decent modern keyboard; I guess I should consider myself lucky I have a couple of SSKs, even though they're unhelpfully loud.

[abrahamstechnology]

I guess this is a good reason to support other Alps clone manufacturers.

[Myoth]

or just use regular good Alps

[Laser]

@vometia, if you'd describe your 'perfect' Alps keyboard (size, layout, switch type), maybe you'd get either some offers, or some help in building one, or some pointers in getting such a keyboard.

[abrahamstechnology]

or just use regular good Alps

What happens when the already limited supply runs out?

[Myoth]

or just use regular good Alps

What happens when the already limited supply runs out?

Don't think about the future, enjoy your time my man

[Muirium]

Alps are the new fossil fuel! Won’t someone please think of the unborn children?

[abrahamstechnology]

I only got here a year ago and already there are no more Blue Alps and SKBM Whites will be depleted by next year.

[Myoth]

I thought the same when I first began in late 2016, yet I've managed to find some of them, and I regularly see people getting some, so I ask you to define "no more", I see plenty of them, I'm not sure where you think there are none anymore ? Budget wise there aren't anymore? Quantity wise there aren't anymore? What do you mean ?

SKBM are good if you harvest the leaves and put them in SKCM switches.

[abrahamstechnology]

I thought the same when I first began in late 2016, yet I've managed to find some of them, and I regularly see people getting some, so I ask you to define "no more", I see plenty of them, I'm not sure where you think there are none anymore ? Budget wise there aren't anymore? Quantity wise there aren't anymore? What do you mean ?

SKBM are good if you harvest the leaves and put them in SKCM switches.

SKCM have been out of production for decades and the only place you can find them are boards that already have them, so you aren't ever going to make a new SKCM board without ruining the old one. Plus, the old switches likely have a good amount of that 20m lifetime already spent. SKBM is also out-of-production with a few remaining stashes on TaoBao.

Plus, SKBM is still worlds better than Matias. SKBM still has a nice, solid Alps click while Matias sounds like a loud rattle, partly thanks to the clear plastic that Matias NEVER made use of. The click leaves are good, but the housings and contacts are complete trash. They feel like crap too, I don't know how anyone can stand the second tactile bump after the "click".

Hua-Jie is so far the only Alps clone switch that I actually like besides actual Alps. It's hard to find outside of a group buy, but at least it works.

[Myoth]

Dude, a good 80% of vintage boards aren't great, just harvest them, I'd rather have Blues in a nice custom than in some yellowed ass chicony with 2 NKRO. I'd make that choice any day of the week. 20mil is way out of anyone's league, I'd be impressed if so far you've used a single board as much.

SKBM are still miles under SKCM. Btw, I rofl'd at the "how can anyone stand the second bump", it's inherent to Alps. Alps Clones are absolute garbage, don't even bother with them. Hi-whateverthefuck or not.

[abrahamstechnology]

Hua-Jies are actually pretty decent for their factory price, around the same as MX clones. Good tactility and good soundtrack, that's good enough for me.

Also, some people would rather have a working vintage board than a new hipster board with vintage switches crammed into them. I wouldn't mind it so much, if people actually had the decency to REPLACE the switches with something so at least the board would be usable. The only reason I built a 60% with Alps is because the switches were leftovers from an AT101W refurb job I did a while back, plus my laptop's keyboard is falling apart.

[samuelcable]

Hua-Jies are actually pretty decent for their factory price, around the same as MX clones. Good tactility and good soundtrack, that's good enough for me.

Also, some people would rather have a working vintage board than a new hipster board with vintage switches crammed into them. I wouldn't mind it so much, if people actually had the decency to REPLACE the switches with something so at least the board would be usable. The only reason I built a 60% with Alps is because the switches were leftovers from an AT101W refurb job I did a while back, plus my laptop's keyboard is falling apart.

Seems rather pointless if you got the board for the switches (which is the only reason to get most Alps boards imo)

[zrrion]

You can hand-wire old boards to remove whatever rollover issues they had, making them more useful in the modern day. Older boards tend to be way more unique/interesting than any run of the mill 60% or tkl they end up in after harvesting. The uniqueness of the board they are coming from is something you should be leveraging when you design the board they go into and failing to take advantage of that potential design influence is a disservice to the board you are harvesting from.

More people should give keyboard design a try instead of just doing keyboard assembly.

As for modern alps, if they want them to really catch on they should make MX compatible versions of the switch. Then you can use the switches in basically any enthusiast PCB/case/capset and be good to go. (That and the MX design is more resistant to wear and dust, so maybe a best of both worlds switch is possible.)

[Myoth]

Also, some people would rather have a working vintage board than a new hipster board with vintage switches crammed into them.

LOL, TIL modern keyboards are for hipsters and using 30 years old keyboard is totally normal you really have to reevaluate your thought process my man.

[Myoth]

Older boards tend to be way more unique/interesting than any run of the mill 60% or tkl they end up in after harvesting.

Yeah vintage keyboards are so unique ... look at those very unique Chiconies, NTC, numerous F AT clones and all of the other ones.

Don't get me wrong, I do think most modern boards are also generic, but give me a break and stop praising vintage just because it's vintage.

[Muirium]

Indeed. Age correlates with quality but does not define it. A bad layout that’s 30 years old is still a bad layout. A brand new custom that’s designed with care is still brand new and therefore garbage.

Wait, I think I lost my train of thought there…

[Inxie]

Alps are the new fossil fuel! Won’t someone please think of the unborn children?

I laughed so hard at this, I woke up my friend in bed with me. Thanks. lol

[Laser]

An embedded friend?

[samuelcable]

There is nothing more "unique" about these standard beige keyboards that were everywhere in the 90s and 80s than these "run of the mill" tkls and 60 percents are now. There are of course exceptions and I'm personally more into vintage stuff but I don't think it's fair to call most of the boards you find blue Alps in "unique". Some boards are good for nothing but desoldering

[Inxie]

An embedded friend?

Dang, why didn't I think of that. At least she doesn't think it's weird I have a keyboard of choice, like how she has a car of choice.

[Chyros]

There seems to be a much greater difference in quality and usability in vintage keyboards than in modern ones. In my experience, barring the really weird ergo stuff, most modern keyboards are pretty similar, and pretty usable but quite meh. Vintage ones range from utterly unusable and extremely terribly made to very usable and far superior to anything made today.