Contest - $20, 48 hours - Guess the keyboards/terminals

[kralcifer]

THIS IS ALL MEANT TO BE IN GOOD FUN...

... so be forgiving if the results seem unfair or subjective at the end.

I just finished cleaning 4 sets of key caps. They are from quite a random set of boards. As I was staring at them drying I thought it might be fun to see if anyone can actually name all of the models of the keyboards or terminals that they belong to.

I think people might get in the ballpark of maybe the family the caps belong to but not necessarily the exact model. I'm thinking of letting it run for 48 hours unless someone exactly guesses before that. If, after 48 hours, no one has correctly guessed all 4 I will attempt to tally who has come the closest. Hopefully I'll be able to tell who has a slight edge if people have the same number correct but different combinations. This part will likely be subjective.

I will pay the winner $20 via Paypal or Amazon gift card or something else convenient.

The contest ends at 9PM Pacific Standard Time (west coast US).

Here's my stab at the contest rules:

1. I've taken 2 photos. One from straight on view and the other from the side.
2. You should be able to zoom in to figure out your guesses.
3. The keycap sets are numbered 1 through 4 on both pictures.
4. Post your guesses to this thread with answers for 1 through 4.
5. Post again later if you change your mind.
6. Feel free to discuss in the topic but you may be giving away an answer to someone else!

Here are the photos:





imgur:
https://imgur.com/gallery/tsFT39R

[PlacaFromHell]

1-Epson QX-10 (Topre or proto Topre version)
2-Televideo 950 (Futaba MA)
3-DEC VT52 (Stackpole)
4-DEC LK201 (membrane)
Bring 'em on


EDIT: I found the Epson

[kralcifer]

Winner winner chicken dinner

Impressive!

How did you do it?

Explain how you knew or found all the answers if you don’t mind. I’m curious to know whether you’ve seen them all before or searched somewhere or what.

[PlacaFromHell]

1-My worst nightmare was the QX-10. When I saw the keycaps I was sure it was a proto Topre keyboard because of the LED holes and the type of mount. I did a quick search and found nothing, then I saw the picture again and spotted the red key which made me remeber the leafspring version of the same keyboard. At the same time I saw a Seiko keyboard with the same LED holes but completely different. Searching on Wikipedia, Seiko and Epson had a history together, so I went to Google and wrote "Seiko Epson QX-10" and a Topre-like QX-10 was the first image.
2-About the Televideo, I have a TS-803H, which has the same keycaps, but I couldn't find the numpad tab key in yours.
3-I knew immediatly it was a VT52 because of the type of switches and the colour scheme, long ago I was offered with two of them but they were in very bad shape. To be sure i counted the amount of red keys and were the same.
4-I just saw the keyboard while searching for another with similar switches long ago. The single yellow PF1 key is unique.

I have to say that this kind of game was very funny

[kralcifer]

Here are the exact answers:

1. Epson Q703D-AA, Brother Dome and Foil (or proto topre)
2. Televideo 950, Futaba MD (formerly Futaba complicated linear)
3. DEC VT50H or VT52, unfortunately the model number labels are gone off the back
4. DEC LK201BA

If anyone knows how to tell the difference between VT50 and VT52 without label and without counting lines on a working CRT please let me know. Mine is in bad shape and the cables were all cut from the back.

For the DEC LK201 I'm doing a cap stem mod but the spacebar still has the stems. I thought that would be how someone would figure out that one. Interesting that you figured out by the single yellow key.

Now for a longer discussion on proto topre...

For the Epson proto topre, I couldn't find any QX-10 pics or articles that described topre like. Please share the link if you have it.

What Chyros shows in his 'Teardown - Brother "Proto-Topre" switches' video looks exactly the same as my Epson Q703D-AA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL2A411Z36U

It's worth reminding people that Chyros also showed in his Epson BFK video that proto topre keycaps are compatible with topre switch boards.

Seiko to me was watch makers. Looks like they made a desktop clock and a printer before becoming Seiko Epson Corporation.
https://epson.com/company-history

Seiko Epson Corporation (セイコーエプソン株式会社, Seikō Epuson Kabushiki-gaisha) (Epson being an abbreviation for "Son of Electronic Printer")
combined from 1982 - 1985
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiko_Epson

I cannot find a connection between the Brother proto topre and my Epson proto topre. Seems like they would have been printer competitors. Seems likely that someone OEMed the proto topre for them. I could not find any useful text on the PCB or anywhere else when I did my teardown. 'KB-33B-1' and 'JCI-ALS' were the only text found if they mean anything to anyone. Chyros didn't mention any text or maker of the PCB in his Brother video.

I had bought some replacement foam and foil for an old Keytronic that I have but I may use it on my Epson proto topre instead. It may be thicker foam that what the proto topre had. The foam was completely disintegrated in my proto topre and appeared to be in Chryos' as well. I believe that there was foam because the disintegration leaves green dust behind. Because there was so little dust remaining in the proto topre compared to my Keytronic that's why I think the foam may have been thinner. The foam and foil disc size, i.e. diameter appears to be the same to me. The foam and foil I'm familiar with has something like a mylar foil on the bottom, glued to some foam above it, with the foam glued to a clear plastic disc above it. My replacement foam and foil has a layer on the top of the plastic to protect that glue. Simply peel that protection off and then glue the top to whatever. I got my replacement foam and foil form Texelec.
https://texelec.com/product/foam-capaci ... keytronic/

The underside roof of the topre domes apear to have either just glue or maybe the clear plastic disc glued to them. I'll need to clean that off, or I should say I have a desire to start clean. I will try to experiment to see if the foam is too thick or not.

The PCB switch contacts look junked up a bit so I'll want to clean that too. Haven't done that before so I'll read if isopropyl and cotton swab is appropriate for that or what I should use.

No mention of proto topre there. I'll reach out to them and ask about it.

I'll start another thread about repairing my epson soon as a better way of collecting more info about it..

[PlacaFromHell]

I noticed the broken stems, but the spacebar itself and the yellow keycap are very unique.

I didn't found an article talking exactly about the QX-10 switches, but just seeing it you can notice that the keyboard is the same as yours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_QX-10
Anyways doing the same research than yesterday I was able to find this manual which describes your model as "light with a reasonably tactile feel and quiet", also is referred as "the 'Brother' HASCI keyboard".
http://www.loopcntr.net/repository/1336.pdf

If you want new foam pads you can get them brand new. Also you can make them yourself like Sangdrax did with the ones for his Harris whatsoever keyboard.

https://texelec.com/product/foam-capaci ... keytronic/

[kralcifer]

Wow, that user's manual was a fun read.

The user manual naming it the Brother HASCI keyboard matches up with my Epson switches being identical to Chyros' Brother switches.

[kralcifer]

Now I'm digging up more links from the past. Reposting.

The DT Wiki has some under Brother Dome and Foil that link back to DT threads for other boards as well like a Burroughs one.
wiki/Brother_dome_and_foil

HaaTa's couple of posts:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=12723&start=#p280667
viewtopic.php?t=12772

They had some not so great news for me. I thought my PCB looked like it had rust on the contact plates but I didn't think that could happen so I was hoping it was dirt. The first link there mentions that they didn't use solder mask. ouch. Hope that's not too much of a blocker to getting mine working.

HaaTa mentions KB-33B-3 on his. I have KB-33B-1 on mine. I had an idea that maybe some folks left Brother to start Topre so it was fun to read about HaaTa surmising something similar.

[kralcifer]

Proto-Topre information collection
viewtopic.php?t=23173

[kralcifer]

This article in 2002 seems to announce the first one, the RealForce 106. It doesn't mention anything about it coming from prior ideas. I have no idea of the date of my Epson Q703D-AA.

http://web.archive.org/web/200212071018 ... e_key.html

[kralcifer]

Here's what my possibly rusted PCB contact plates look like:



Supposedly they may not have solder mask.

What can I do to clean them up?

[Engicoder]

You can use a mild abrasive like fine sand paper or steel wool. It may scuff up the soldermask a bit but won't damage if you don't over do it. You can also try a bit of vinegar and salt solution on swabs to carefully clean just the copper parts. You will then then to wipe with alcohol to remove any acidic residue.

[kralcifer]

Thanks Engicoder. I will try soon.