Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)

User avatar
mcmaxmcmc

09 May 2021, 00:04

Go-Kart wrote:
08 May 2021, 23:43
Reviews are subjective by their very nature. Thus, there is no need for a disclaimer.
Yes, but it is an authoritative review, and people do look at these judgments with a sense of objectivity. They look at it and see "This guy has a big following, and it doesn't seem controversial, so many people must have agreed with him, and therefore, his "reviews" has backing and can be trusted as well." Compounded that Chyros is one of the *only* vintage keyboard "review" channels out there, there is also nobody else to compare to.

What you have here is one big voice, and sure hell people are going to take that as gospel. "This is shit! Chyros said so!" happens far too often.

User avatar
Bass

09 May 2021, 01:21

mcmaxmcmc wrote:
09 May 2021, 00:04
Go-Kart wrote:
08 May 2021, 23:43
Reviews are subjective by their very nature. Thus, there is no need for a disclaimer.
Yes, but it is an authoritative review, and people do look at these judgments with a sense of objectivity. They look at it and see "This guy has a big following, and it doesn't seem controversial, so mamy people must have agreed with him, and therefore, his "reviews" has backing and can be trusted as well." Compounded that Chyros is one of the *only* vintage keyboard "review" channels out there, there is also nobody else to compare to.

What you have here is one big voice, and sure hell people are going to take that as gospel. "This is shit! Chyros said so!" happens far too often.
I can't deny that there are people out there who do that, but my question is why does that matter? What's inherently wrong with pointing out that a popular content creator shares the same opinion as them in a niche hobby? Why are people in here letting that get under their skin? I am seeing some disgusting accusations in here that are implying Chyros is somehow hurting the community because his videos are "authoritative" and "influential". But from where I am standing, it's nothing more that mental gymnastics being used to discredit someone who is popular because they are strongly expressing an opinion that they disagree with. It's baffling to me that anyone would think that it's necessary to go on self-righteous crusades in the name of protecting others from controversial opinions about keyboards.

As for me, watching these video reviews from Chyros/Thomas was a major reason I was able to expand my horizons since 2017. Prior to then, I had spent the past 6 or 7 years using only Cherry MX switches in my keyboards and was pretty ignorant about what else was really out there. And you know what? I ended up trying many different types of switches since I started watching his videos and have concluded that he and I have fairly similar tastes in that we both tend to prefer sharply tactile mid-weighted clicky switches. I have since settled down and used a capacitive buckling springs keyboard as my daily driver which is number 2 on his list of favorite switches, but it's not like I agree with all of his opinions. For example, I tried using 9/10 condition Blue Alps (his #1 favorite switch) for a week and concluded that while I really liked how they sounded, I didn't think they were all that special in terms of keyfeel. But guess what? That's a subjective conclusion that I reached for myself and I certainly don't regret trying them.

Granted, I'll admit that he probably went a bit too far in saying that Holy Pandas are for people who "don't actually care about switches" in this particular review (although it might have just been meant to be a tongue-in cheek way of saying that people who are into customs usually prioritize switches less than the chassis and keycaps, which I think is most definitely true if you factor in where money is spent on these builds). I wouldn't have felt obligated to provide my own take on this situation if the criticism that Thomas has received in this thread stopped at just that, but I think such behavior needs to be called out when it goes far beyond that.
Last edited by Bass on 09 May 2021, 01:41, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Weezer

09 May 2021, 01:36

Chyros shouldn't need to make a disclaimer to his videos saying that they're his opinion. It's not his fault if people are unable to discern subjective opinions from facts, and are unwilling to indipendently investigate the cornucopia of other keyboard reviews to draw their own conclusions based on their own tastes. Do a quick google search and look at all the people praising Apple's magic keyboard for example, or the litany of people praising cherry mx, etc. It's not like there's a glut of counter perspectives. But that's neither here, nor there. People trust Chryos because he's honest about what he thinks and his opinions happen to line up with their own. It's insulting, the assumption some of you are making, that people are just mindless drones waiting to be told what to think.


But calling someone who disagrees with you an insignificant spec of dirt not worth your time of day is cold. It shows that Chryos doesn't value criticism or the people that watch his videos.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

09 May 2021, 02:26

My opinions are fact and if you don't like the facts then go back to school...

All jokes aside, I can understand all-around how someone could feel like there was not enough depth into the review hence causing the feeling that they gave praise to the keyboard.

People that are coming into the hobby and or already in the hobby automatically give things praise I feel if little information is given then they hold don't hold it to a higher standard. This has nothing to with the opinion of the creator but more the lack of information sometimes.

If the creator doesn't know too much about the product that they are reviewing then I can totally understand why people that have a higher knowledge of the product would feel like they are misleading other people that know a lot less. I think that some people know that Chyros doesn't know too much about kustoms(I think that this is true but correct me if I'm wrong) but that being said a lot of new people do hold keyboard creators at a level that what they say is fact. If they don't say anything wrong then that's also fact as well.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Weezer

09 May 2021, 02:39

Well, if people are holding the reviewers at a level that equates to fact, then at that point is it the reviewers who are at fault or the people who hold anecdotal opinion on the same level as gospel? I don't have a very serious investment in this debate, but I think my main thought is that Chyros is just one dude, he's not the officially appointed ambassador, and it's also up to each individual person to formulate their own perspective. It's not any one reviewer's job to attempt to mold watcher's perspectives in a way that's deemed appropriate by others.

User avatar
Go-Kart

09 May 2021, 08:26

mcmaxmcmc wrote:
09 May 2021, 00:04
Go-Kart wrote:
08 May 2021, 23:43
Reviews are subjective by their very nature. Thus, there is no need for a disclaimer.
Yes, but it is an authoritative review, and people do look at these judgments with a sense of objectivity. They look at it and see "This guy has a big following, and it doesn't seem controversial, so many people must have agreed with him, and therefore, his "reviews" has backing and can be trusted as well." Compounded that Chyros is one of the *only* vintage keyboard "review" channels out there, there is also nobody else to compare to.

What you have here is one big voice, and sure hell people are going to take that as gospel. "This is shit! Chyros said so!" happens far too often.
I hear you. Though, this issue stems from the people consuming the content. I'd find it hard to argue otherwise. For instance, I myself disagree with how Chyros ranks key feel; I'm really into Topre and therefore put it top tier. My conclusion isn't that Chyros is wrong or right, it's that he has different tastes to me. And I certainly don't get salty and kick off about it.

User avatar
an_achronism

09 May 2021, 08:52

This is precisely my point, yes. I understand why it would be frustrating for people to act on the basis of their entire opinion of a given product being carbon copied from a single YouTube video, but I do not put that on the creator of the video. That, in my humble opinion, would be bloody silly.

As he said 'imself, he's not making videos purely selflessly and for the good of the community, that's a secondary thing that happens to go with the territory. He's making videos because he likes making videos. Good. That's as it should be, as far as I'm concerned. As such, any assumptions about "responsibility" because people happen to listen to him are misguided.

(Though I don't think it helps to respond to this nonsense by belittling somebody and calling them an "irrelevant speck". That's also pretty misguided.)

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

09 May 2021, 09:27

an_achronism wrote:
09 May 2021, 08:52
[…]
As [Chyros] said 'imself, he's not making videos purely selflessly and for the good of the community, that's a secondary thing that happens to go with the territory. He's making videos because he likes making videos. […]
So apparently the revenue aspect of being an "influencer" does not play the slightest role. :lol:

User avatar
Muirium
µ

09 May 2021, 09:53

kbdfr wrote:
09 May 2021, 09:27
an_achronism wrote:
09 May 2021, 08:52
[…]
As [Chyros] said 'imself, he's not making videos purely selflessly and for the good of the community, that's a secondary thing that happens to go with the territory. He's making videos because he likes making videos. […]
So apparently the revenue aspect of being an "influencer" does not play the slightest role. :lol:
Correct. He can say what he likes. If you're angry at the perceived naïveté of the people who listen to him, then there's some wonderfully fluffy clouds here in Edinburgh this morning you can just as meaningfully harangue on the matter. ;)

Chyros does often take the piss out of my own tastes, too. You heard his digs at compact layouts? I do, every time they come up, and I just chuckle. He's got his preferences, and I've got mine. No one needs to die in a ditch because small keyboards are demonstrably superior to the tasteless, bulky nonsense he so dimwittedly prefers. If he can evoke a good laugh while he's ribbing the rest of us, it's a pleasant experience. Good humour's sneaky stuff! And he's generally pretty good at it.

User avatar
Go-Kart

09 May 2021, 10:26

Here here.

User avatar
Bjerrk

09 May 2021, 11:07

Muirium wrote:
09 May 2021, 09:53
He can say what he likes. If you're angry at the perceived naïveté of the people who listen to him, then there's some wonderfully fluffy clouds here in Edinburgh this morning you can just as meaningfully harangue on the matter. ;)

Chyros does often take the piss out of my own tastes, too. You heard his digs at compact layouts? I do, every time they come up, and I just chuckle. He's got his preferences, and I've got mine. No one needs to die in a ditch because small keyboards are demonstrably superior to the tasteless, bulky nonsense he so dimwittedly prefers. If he can evoke a good laugh while he's ribbing the rest of us, it's a pleasant experience. Good humour's sneaky stuff! And he's generally pretty good at it.
Good to see that somebody still talks a bit of sense around here.

User avatar
Chyros

09 May 2021, 12:11

Weezer wrote:
09 May 2021, 01:36
But calling someone who disagrees with you an insignificant spec of dirt not worth your time of day is cold. It shows that Chryos doesn't value criticism or the people that watch his videos.
I feel like I should address this so as not to create misunderstanding here. What I meant by that is that at some point, if someone keeps trolling you, let alone for as long as he has, you stop caring about anything they do or say. I've addressed his criticisms (which never change, they're always the same) numerous times in the past, and it didn't make for a fun time. It diminished the fun I took in my own hobby. What little of his ramblings that I could describe as "meant to be constructive" I disagreed with and the rest was just hateful, incoherent babble not meant to be constructive in any way. I refuse to let myself be affected by that. And he's not the only one, obviously. You learn to block out messages like that over time.

Also, I really don't mind criticism, but you have to understand that by now I've heard almost everything a dozen times and for every person who thinks I should do X differently, there's another who watches purely because I do X in that exact way. I've changed the way I present things many times over the years and I'd say that after 6 1/2 years I've come up with a format I'm pretty comfortable with. I'm not saying it's perfect, but this is how I like doing it, and I think it's good enough. His point, i.e. sugarcoating my words, I've reviewed and rejected.

Above all though, I don't understand why some people lose their heads over all this. I'm just a guy having a fun time talking about old keyboards xD . I don't have an ulterior motive here, and although I very much enjoy interacting with the people who watch my videos (it's one of the best things about it for sure), you have to understand that I didn't have a 100k sub base when I started making videos. I started making videos because I enjoyed making videos. Does an actor act solely for the benefit of their audience? No, they do it because they love acting. Does a writer write solely for the benefit of their readers? No, they do it because they love writing. Obviously other peoples' enjoyment will play a big part, but it would be untrue to say that I make my videos solely for my audience. So it's not that I don't care about them, because I do. But it would be disingenuous to claim I do it only for them.

User avatar
Chyros

09 May 2021, 12:27

kbdfr wrote:
09 May 2021, 09:27
an_achronism wrote:
09 May 2021, 08:52
[…]
As [Chyros] said 'imself, he's not making videos purely selflessly and for the good of the community, that's a secondary thing that happens to go with the territory. He's making videos because he likes making videos. […]
So apparently the revenue aspect of being an "influencer" does not play the slightest role. :lol:
I demonetised my channel a long time ago, and I've rejected every single one of the hundreds of sponsorship deals I've been offered. I never asked anyone to like my videos or subscribe to my channel, avoid clickbait video titles, and practically go out of my way to review obscure hardware that attracts as few viewers as possible, despite people urging me to review more popular stuff. I haven't set up a Patreon account despite tons of people asking me to, and apart from that small Kickstarter I ran a few years ago, I've refused all monetary donations. I think that comment does not do me justice, frankly.

User avatar
Bjerrk

09 May 2021, 12:27

Chyros wrote:
09 May 2021, 12:11
So it's not that I don't care about them, because I do. But it would be disingenuous to claim I do it only for them.
On top of that, the "allegations" of being an unscrupulous influencer especially seem to miss the mark.
If you wish to gain a large following and commercial success in keyboard YouTuber land, there are two things you shouldn't do:
* Consistently disparage the MX platform
* Harshly and honestly criticize new and hyped products

So, what I am trying to say, Chyros, is that if you're trying to be a highly successful YouTube influencer, you're doing a piss poor job.

If, on the other hand, you're just a guy who likes yapping about old computer keyboards on video, you're nailing it.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

09 May 2021, 13:33

Oh come off it. How could anyone possibly say a bad thing about Cherry MX unless they're in the pocket of Big Alps? Get real, citizen!

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

10 May 2021, 13:36

Chyros wrote:
09 May 2021, 12:27
kbdfr wrote:
09 May 2021, 09:27
[…]
So apparently the revenue aspect of being an "influencer" does not play the slightest role. :lol:
I demonetised my channel a long time ago, and I've rejected every single one of the hundreds of sponsorship deals I've been offered. I never asked anyone to like my videos or subscribe to my channel, avoid clickbait video titles, and practically go out of my way to review obscure hardware that attracts as few viewers as possible, despite people urging me to review more popular stuff. I haven't set up a Patreon account despite tons of people asking me to, and apart from that small Kickstarter I ran a few years ago, I've refused all monetary donations. I think that comment does not do me justice, frankly.
Well, in that case I obviously have to retract my objection (which, incidently, was my sharpest grievance).
If the only revenue from your videos is of a non-monetary kind, i.e. simply glory, so be it.
I think it is ill-deserved, but at least it does not stink the way money does :mrgreen:

User avatar
Elrick

11 May 2021, 04:11

Chyros wrote:
09 May 2021, 12:27
So apparently the revenue aspect of being an "influencer" does not play the slightest role. :lol:
Much respect, someone putting their opinions out there without being paid for it. You are a 'freak' compared to most whom derive a living from Youtube.

My presumption was ill-fated and wrong in regard to yourself. Sorry.

Chyros wrote:
09 May 2021, 12:27
I demonetised my channel a long time ago, and I've rejected every single one of the hundreds of sponsorship deals I've been offered. I never asked anyone to like my videos or subscribe to my channel, avoid clickbait video titles, and practically go out of my way to review obscure hardware that attracts as few viewers as possible, despite people urging me to review more popular stuff.
That was my fault as well, expecting you to review the current range of keyboard garbage that is available. Avoid doing that in the future because we all know the outcome of such examinations.

We either like it or don't, perfect FREE will in a time when subservient obedience, seems to be the current religion in the West.
Chyros wrote:
09 May 2021, 12:27
I haven't set up a Patreon account despite tons of people asking me to, and apart from that small Kickstarter I ran a few years ago, I've refused all monetary donations. I think that comment does not do me justice, frankly.
Even more RESPECT from a person such as myself, which isn't a good way to appreciate all your hard work done already in the realm of keyboard and switch reviews, done in that nonchalant way.

Just keep doing it, even though I am a CherryMX clone collector. YES, the admission of my failings when it comes to truly hating the switch world. It's all about cheaply acquiring a 'similar feeling' to the unobtainables in the keyboard world.

keyboard Kultist

29 May 2021, 20:14

I like and respect Tom. Thanks to his entertaining and informative videos I've
been inspired to try many switches and boards that I would not have otherwise.

Excelsior!

davkol

09 Jun 2021, 17:12

Admittedly, I read Reddit a bit too much… GMMK Pro was hyped there precisely as a way to get the features of fancy custom keyboards vessels for keycaps (case, latest and greatest frankenswitches, customizable firmware) without doing the work or paying that much.

It turns out that half of the selling points is half-assed at best: GMMK Pro review from a QMK user's perspective
[…]

Software

Glorious Core

Honestly the user experience is generally really awful, here's a some of my complaints:

[…]

QMK

They really did just the bare minimum for this, it honestly feels like it was just an afterthought to attract keyboard enthusiasts who didn't look too deep into it before preordering like me.

VIA support

Nonexistent, at least from GMMK. I have no idea what the problem is, it's really not that hard

[…]

RGB support

This is supposedly being worked on, but given that they didn't even bother to answer this question from a month ago somehow I doubt it.

Batch 3 QMK incompatibility

This tweet is pretty concerning. It is actually possible to use STM chips not officially supported by QMK without any modifications if the chip happens to be similar enough to a chip that already has support. However since there's no mention of the actual chip they intend to use as a replacement, I imagine their confidence in this being possible is fairly low. In the event that they actually need to add support for a new chip, getting it to happen will probably take quite a while, since QMK requires new ARM chips to be first supported by ChibiOS-Contrib.

[…]

Given that GloriousThrall's Github has been dead for over a month as of Apr 25, 2021, I find it hard to believe that QMK support was ever intended to be anything more than a marketing gimmick. There seems to be very little interest in actually providing support for QMK users, and if anything it seems that they have actively made decisions to make QMK support harder except for the initial choice of MCU.
I have a KBP V60 Type R and another factory-produced keyboard with support for a custom firmware would had been nice.

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