Keyboard Love story VIII - USPS, Dell, NTC KB-6252EA

User avatar
codehead

29 Dec 2012, 10:32

It was early July, 2012 and I kept trying... I wanted to like Dell AT101W. Why didn’t I like it? Well, I knew why I didn’t like it but what was causing it to be like that? Or perhaps... Perhaps it just was supposed to be like that... I needed to try another ALPS board! I wanted the clicky one, the white ALPS, preferably the complicated ALPS type which many seem to consider superior to the newer versions and clones. I ended up with Focus FK-2001.

I ordered it from a fellow member Quarzac. Everything was going well; he shipped it from US, sent me USPS tracking codes, I saw the shipment moving and so forth. But then... Then it left the States and the tracking signal got lost. I waited for more than a month, but nothing. No sign of it. Finnish postal service couldn’t do anything about it and I wasn’t able to contact USPS either since they required all sorts of US addresses and whatnot in order for me to even send the damn enquiry! Well, I don’t want to go into that rant again but what eventually happened was that Quarzac refunded me the whole payment and he (hopefully) settled with USPS. Quarzac handled things very well but USPS... What a shame... :cry:

So now what? I was having a bit hard time getting a white ALPS board... Maybe there wasn’t that many available in Europe or I dunno... But then, in late August, I found a fellow member, a Belgian guy called Paranoid, selling a Nan Tan Computer NTC KB-6252EA equipped with the white ALPS and he was also selling a Tulip keyboard which happened to have ALPS compatible double shot keycaps! I just had to get both of them... Despite the fact that they were in some weirdo layouts like AZERTY or whatever... :D

NTC KB-6252EA and Tulip arrived in late August of 2012. Tulip wasn’t anything out of the ordinary. It was a rubber dome keyboard with slightly sharper tactile feel than most of the supermarket keyboards. But the double shot keycaps were thick and beautiful - just the way I like it. However, the big keycaps like Enter and Space had these weirdo plastic poles as stabilizers and they just couldn’t be fitted on NTC (nor Dell).

NTC is surprisingly light, especially for being a full size board. It’s just all plastic. It has XT/AT switch on the bottom. The keyboard is connected with a big 5-pin DIN connector. Paranoid was kind enough to throw in DIN->Mini-DIN adapter (aka AT->PS/2 adapter) That's about it when it comes to features of the keyboard. It could’ve been just about any bundled-in keyboard based on the looks of it. But the switches. The switches... Were... Well, they were disappointing... They were stiff, just the way they were on my Dell. :?

Now I was convinced that it wasn’t a feature of the switches. They weren’t supposed to be like this. I started reading about lubricating the switches. Choosing the right lubricant turned out to be much harder than I thought. Some lubricants apparently might destroy the PCB of the keyboard, some lubricants might destroy the plastics and so on. I ended up with a check list:
  • NO acetone & methylene chloride
  • NO petroleum based
  • OK PTFE
So I walked down to Clas Ohlson and got myself a can of CRC White Lithium Grease + PTFE. I started with the NTC, spraying the switches one by one but eventually ended up spraying the board with a bit more generous strokes. The CRC can contained warnings about dizziness and sleepiness if applied in a poorly ventilated room. Those warnings turned out to be appropriate. :roll:

I waited until the next day, letting it dry out, and then cleaned the board of the extra lithium and put back the keycaps. It was an exciting moment. How would the switches feel this time? And they felt... AWESOME! And they still do!

The sound of NTC KB-6252EA is very pleasing. It’s much lower pitched than the Cherry MX blues and especially now after lubricating, the sound is softer but not too silent. The sound is like more plastic when Cherry MX blue sound is more metallic. Now, after lubricating, the actuation point is much easier to detect and I’m not bottoming down all the time. However, there is one side-effect of my overly generous applying of lithium: couple of switches stopped clicking. Also, one thing to mention is that the stabilizers of the big-ass Enter key were difficult to put back in.

Next, it was Dell’s turn. The end result was just as great as it was on NTC. The feel was great and it still is. The stiffness is completely gone. One thing to mention though. The keycaps required A LOT of force to pull out. I actually broke the stem of the Caps Lock keycap while pulling it out so that the other half of the stem was left stuck in the switch slider! :oops:

The final conclusion. Dell is now one of my favorites. The keyboard build quality, the feel of the switches (after lubricating), availability and price - it’s all good! The NTC’s white ALPS after lubricating are excellent but the board itself is clearly in the lower end.. Bang for the buck is good but I’d rank it below Dell. The Tulip keycaps are solid gold!

My adventure in the ALPS was coming to an end. Except for one more thing... Matias Tactile Pro 4.0 ! Matias developed all new ALPS style clicky switch! There was absolutely no way I could let it pass!

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

29 Dec 2012, 15:56

Ha. The AT101W series has a bit of a dismal reputation. I don't honestly know if it's because tactile Alps switches are simply nowhere near as sharp as the clicky switches. I have a NIB AT102W, and the black Alps switches are rough and scratchy. I'm comparing it to salmon Alps in an Apple M0116, but that's a used board, and maybe the switches are worn smooth? Both M0116s I've tried felt way better.

In terms of the NTC, the switches may not be Alps. I've seen a photo of an NTC board with two long tab switches, which have a good chance of being real Alps. However, my NTC has Type IV Simplified switches (one of the four-tab clones), which are pretty stiff and irritating. Alps clone switches aren't known for their quality of feel. (Annoyingly, NTC got bought up, else I'd ask who made the Type IV. Nobody knows.)

The Japanese have a thing for lubing Alps. Personally, without having compared NIB to used switches of each type (white Alps, blue Alps, various clones) I couldn't say whether any switch types were actually fine out of the box, and how many require lube to be suitable for use. Fuhua/Fukka switches (in the Tactile Pro 1 and 3) are fairly decent out of the box, although they are still stiff — they're like Cherry MX Clear, in that they're less tactile and stiffer. Blue Alps is exceptionally tactile, but the spring is quite soft (guessing 45 cN actuation force) which feels so much better. Blue Alps has the same design as the ergo clear: tactile without the excessive stiffness.

User avatar
codehead

29 Dec 2012, 17:57

Excellent information, thank you! I should open up the NTC at some point to take a closer look on the back of the switches for traces. I'm also a bit suspicious for them being actual complicated type of ALPS...

I feel the same regarding the difference in sharpness between ALPS blacks and whites, it's actually quite the same with Cherry MX brown vs. Cherry MX blue in my opinion.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

29 Dec 2012, 18:00

One person noted that NMB tactile switches are a similar weight to MX browns, but more tactile. Maybe I'll get a chance to try those one day.

User avatar
codehead

29 Dec 2012, 18:40

The switches on my NTC are like the one in the pic when it comes to shape, form, tabs and whatnot:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Alps_w ... ky_001.jpg

However, I'm not 101% certain if the typography of the ALPS is exactly the same...

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

29 Dec 2012, 18:47

I've never heard of a clone putting "ALPS" on the top, though some Fuhua switches still kept the Alps logo after they took ownership of the factory. This doesn't mean that no-one did, but Alps had no logo there for anyone to copy. White is a later switch.

According to Sandy, some clones did put the old oval Alps logo on the bottom, which is weird as most clones have a different shaped base altogether. Japanese is not machine translatable so I don't understand any of what he's written — just the picture showing switches with mouldings taken from Alps originals. He may be referring to the few clones that really do resemble Alps switches, instead of the far more common four-tab copy.

So yes, that will be a genuine white Alps switch. However, it could be complicated or simplified. The only way to tell is to open up a switch. I use scroll lock as it's a useless key.

BTW, got a pic of the Tulip? So far they've been known to use blue Alps and inverse cross SMKs.

User avatar
codehead

29 Dec 2012, 18:59

I don't have a pic of the Tulip nor do I have the board. I threw it away since it was just a rubber dome junk. I will be posting pics of the rest of the boards in my next review.

Edit: I found some pics from the original seller:
http://imgur.com/a/PgjrN
http://imgur.com/a/5XWHv

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

29 Dec 2012, 21:45

Grr, added it to http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM_availability before realising that I don't actually know whether it's white simplified or white complicated :P Silly.

The Tulip ones are Alps-compatible sliders. I'll keep a note to add that to the wiki at some stage. Just for completeness.

User avatar
codehead

29 Dec 2012, 22:50

Yeah and I'll try to pull out one of the switches and tear it down to pieces during the next couple of days :)

ndp

30 Dec 2012, 19:39

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:...
In terms of the NTC, the switches may not be Alps. I've seen a photo of an NTC board with two long tab switches, which have a good chance of being real Alps. However, my NTC has Type IV Simplified switches (one of the four-tab clones), which are pretty stiff and irritating. Alps clone switches aren't known for their quality of feel. (Annoyingly, NTC got bought up, else I'd ask who made the Type IV.
...
I can confirm that some NTC models have Complicated ALPS switches. I have 3 differents models with: Type IV, simplified green and Complicated Blue ALPS.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

30 Dec 2012, 21:40

Blue? Lucky git, I only got Type IV :-P My NTC has a better keyboard layout than my blue Alps board.

User avatar
daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

22 Jan 2013, 22:23

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Ha. The AT101W series has a bit of a dismal reputation. I don't honestly know if it's because tactile Alps switches are simply nowhere near as sharp as the clicky switches. I have a NIB AT102W, and the black Alps switches are rough and scratchy. I'm comparing it to salmon Alps in an Apple M0116, but that's a used board, and maybe the switches are worn smooth? Both M0116s I've tried felt way better.
Personally, I find Alps are quite easy to bottom out on. Now, take a switch where you have a high force (so you bottom out very hard), poor tactility and a friction-ey feel, and you have a rather unpleasant typing experience...

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

22 Jan 2013, 22:28

I find that I don't bottom out hard on black Alps. Blue Alps is lighter, and bottoming out is harder, but still not as bad as Cherry. Blue Alps is light, but there's sharp points in the travel — the razor sharp tactile jolt, and the hard landing. The only thing stopping Topre from being the best, is that it just doesn't click!! I guess with blue Alps you have to do the same thing as Cherry switches, and just learn over time how much force to exert.

User avatar
maxmalkav
dye hard

23 Jan 2013, 01:31

Just by chance I'm waiting for the arrival of a NTC KB-6151, which should have original white Alps (I really hope so!). I hope it's similar in some way to your keyboard and also provides a good feeling.

BTW @Daniel, how about used inverted Futaba, do they age well?

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

23 Jan 2013, 10:29

I don't know, sorry. When I find one for sale I might know!

User avatar
maxmalkav
dye hard

26 Jan 2013, 01:52

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:I don't know, sorry. When I find one for sale I might know!
I may try to get one. They seem to be "easy" to find in Spain, they were kinda common back in the late 80s and early 90s.

BTW, my white Alps arrived, great condition, Swiss layout (CH) and big-ass enter key. It's another NTC family member. Not sure about the nature of its keys. They sink in water, may they be PBT dyesub?

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