deskthority

Have you tried this?

klikkyklik wrote: I found with the 87U a realization that I use the numpad more than I thought while programming. I can see the attraction to smaller boards for straight typing, but I personally wouldn't use something like the HHKB for programming - I don't think I would be tolerant to the slowdowns it forces.

Not sure what's up with the space issues people have either. Are everyone's desks smaller these days, or... ?

Yeah, it must come down to primary use patterns. My keyboards are primarily for programming. Not gaming. And not general purpose typing (aside from forum message posting and the occasional e-mails). While I don't use the numpad all that much, I would definitely notice if it were missing, and it would bother me.

I also find the shrinking workspace phenomenon puzzling...

klikkyklik wrote: I found with the 87U a realization that I use the numpad more than I thought while programming.

and that's why TKL should get rid of the nav cluster and keep the numberpad , num lock exists for a reason

Interesting choice of trade-offs there. If I had to choose between sacrificing the numpad or the nav cluster, I would definitely ditch the numpad. I use the arrow keys and Home/End/PgUp/PgDn way too much to ever give them up. If I had to write code without those keys, I think I'd go insane (hint: hardcore coders don't use the mouse much...it just slows coding speed down far too much).

I found out the only key I was using on the numpad was enter, mostly because it was closer to the mouse. Now I occasionally hit the right arrow and wonder why nothing is happening, only to realize this was a habit.

The only thing about the 87u layout that isn't where I'm used to are the <> keys, but I'll probably adjust on using them in no time.

TKL is a really good layout overall because it still has enough keys to not make me think about hjkl in VIM and enables both hands to reach most keys without moving. How people type on those tiny 40% keyboards is beyond me, I doubt I could ever get used to that.

Seems like Model M's on eBay are averaging in the $80 range or so. I can't get a read on a model F AT however. Any thoughts as to what the average price might be for a board in somewhat decent shape?

zslane wrote: Interesting choice of trade-offs there. If I had to choose between sacrificing the numpad or the nav cluster, I would definitely ditch the numpad. I use the arrow keys and Home/End/PgUp/PgDn way too much to ever give them up. If I had to write code without those keys, I think I'd go insane (hint: hardcore coders don't use the mouse much...it just slows coding speed down far too much).

I really like this layout ... its a "TK-like" but with a dedicated (rather than overlay) arrow cluster (the small backspace is a bummer but one gets used to it):

The ANSI nav cluster layout is deeply embedded in muscle memory at this point, and I really don't have the inclination nor patience to retrain it just to save 3.5" I don't need to save anyway.