deskthority

dat enter

yeh i should have told apple to send US ones but oh well.

half of our none retina pros are ANSI don't know where they hell they came from

More participants than last year already? In, too.

andrewjoy wrote: half of our none retina pros are ANSI don't know where they hell they came from

Like you said:

andrewjoy wrote: yeh i should have told apple to send US ones but oh well.

You can order ANSI US Macs quite easily here, straight from Apple. For no extra price, but the peace of mind you get when spared that awful Anorexic Return!

Muirium wrote: You can order ANSI US Macs quite easily here, straight from Apple. For no extra price, but the peace of mind you get when spared that awful Anorexic Return!

I was always puzzled that Mac should offer an ISO layout and then leave the rest (or most of the rest) of the keys in the US position...

Those were my training wheels for true ANSI! My first Mac was a UK keyboard 12" PowerBook. I adapted to the UK vs. US differences at the same time as I got used to Command etc. Wound up really helping me out for the IBMs and Topres to come a decade later!



Not my picture, and that PowerBook isn't UK because even Apple puts a £ on the 3 key. But the physical layout is identical.

So, I've booked my travel to America now, and I'll definitely have a choice of 2 addresses (Scotland and California) for whoever ends up being my lucky Santa. I'm flying over there the second week of December.

7bit: DO NOT simply use my address from the bot. I won't be at home! I can tell you both addresses by PM. I'll be in California during Christmas and through January too, but I'm patient. I don't mind waiting for a surprise present on my return! Whichever place is easier for my Santa to ship to is fine by me.

Naturally, this means I can be sneaky and do a similar optimisation myself. If I'm playing Santa for someone outside Europe, I'll likely take it with me and ship once I'm in America.

In. Pm'ed with address (CONUS).

Quack.

This ought to be good!

Sure, why not. I'm in!

I would love to join but I don't think I'll be back home by the 1st of December, and I don't want to send any dud gifts.

The (secret) address drawing is on December 1. You have a bit of time to ship after that. A fact I will use, what with my travel that month too.

If possible I'd prefer to know my giftee earlier than december 1st. Why does the deadline have to be that late? Doesn't leave much time to find and send a present if I draw someone from e.g. the U.S.

Sure it's possible. Let's rebel against the bot and seize control of this drawing ourselves! I'm sure 7bit decided to take over this operation for the purposes of his group buys anyway.

Naturally, someone who isn't me should actually pair up the addresses. Because I will totally rig it!

I would like a system where we can do things like name more than one address (I'll be in Scotland at the start of December but in California later on) and maybe even a way of pairing people from the same continent, to save on shipping. So long as A is giving to B and B is giving to C, we're good, I think.

Last year, Matt3o offered this:

matt3o wrote: can I build you an (open source) match making algorithm? printing and mixing seems a bit outdated
matt3o (IT)

I don't mind getting someone from a different continent, but shipping can take like 3-4 weeks.

Okay, a matchmaking algorithm with constraints, so we can do stuff like handle the travellers differently (I have two potential addresses) and let people choose to limit themselves to their own continent…

mmmmh algorithm!

Muirium wrote: […] maybe even a way of pairing people from the same continent, to save on shipping. So long as A is giving to B and B is giving to C, we're good, I think.

I for one am opposed to that - shipping to another continent is part of the game,
and the sheer possibility of receiving from another continet is part of the thrill.
Next thing we would pair people from the same town to save even more on shipping.

Yeah...I don't like that idea either
It's kinda not fair because some people *cough* are not going to have a choice really. I think also that you should be able to buy something in your recipient's country. It's actually a great way to potentially save a lot on shipping which can otherwise be put toward the gift.

I did say let people *choose* to limit themselves geographically. I don't want it to be mandatory. Make it opt in. Something for a minority, who aren't sure they can join in otherwise.

See, not everyone can afford, or has the language confidence, to buy something new in a far flung country. Just imagine doing that in, say, Korean or Japanese! And some nations in particular (*cough* right here *cough*) have far higher international shipping costs than others.

I didn't participate in this last year because I couldn't guarantee that I could afford it. Not after 7bit had all my moneys! More people could be in a similar position. Especially the Scandinavians. I don't see any of the regulars on the list. Not too surprising, have you seen what their shipping is like!

Muirium wrote: I did say let people *choose* to limit themselves geographically. I don't want it to be mandatory. Make it opt in. Something for a minority, who aren't sure they can join in otherwise. […]

That wouldn't work:

• either the geographical limitation would have to work both ways, everyone who decides not to ship to another continent having to accept not receiving from another continent, which would result in a nonsensical "continent-wise" splitting of the Secret Santas severely affecting the random distribution of both Santas and giftees,
• or absurdly enough one could decide to save money by not shipping to another continent, but still take advantage of people from other continents not putting the same restriction on themselves.

If one has to save as a Secret Santa, then save on the gift - after all, there is no restriction to that.

To put it short: introduce such a rule and I'm out. Edit: changed my mind because actually there seem to be good arguments for such a rule.
On the other hand, I am still convinced that it alters the very character of the Secret Santa thing.

Well, I was out last year, because of the absence of such a rule. And it looks like our entire Danish/Swedish/Finnish/Norwegian contingent is all out again too!

I back the second of your interpretations: unilateral, not bilateral, limitation. The whole Secret Santa project is about the random kindness of strangers, after all. Cheaping out on the gifts is the downside I'm keen to avoid.

Needs more people from the Netherlands, so I can hide how I trade some crap for your custom Korean keyboard.

kbdfr wrote: The whole Secret Santa project is about the random kindness of strangers, after all. Cheaping out on the gifts is the downside I'm keen to avoid.

Obviously you've got a point there, even if I don't like the idea.

webwit wrote: Needs more people from the Netherlands, so I can hide how I trade some crap for your custom Korean keyboard.

And obviously it is possible to say nasty things without being grumpy

kbdfr wrote:

kbdfr wrote: The whole Secret Santa project is about the random kindness of strangers, after all. Cheaping out on the gifts is the downside I'm keen to avoid.

Obviously you've got a point there, even if I don't like the idea.

Uh, yeah, what he said. Glad to see you've come around now!

I actually had an option last year to keep within country if possible if you're financially unable to do international shipping. I know in the past I've been in positions where I don't join secret santas due to being unable to afford a potential international into a country where buying there isn't an option.

So in the end I'm in even if such a silly rule is introduced,
but I still don't like the idea.

Please inform me if my giftee has chosen the option not to ship abroad,
I'll then adapt my (gift value + shipping costs) accordingly

What? I know going into this that I'm probably out about 65 USD for international shipping. That's about what it costs to ship a big keyboard box to the UK or Australia. But I'm doing it anyway because (a) I hope to give someone something awesome and (2) I'm also hoping to receive something awesome. There was that time someone got a Type Heaven out of this after all.

So please, don't cheap out on international shipping. If it's really an issue for whoever my secret Santa is send me a PM. You should consider financial hardship before joining at all of course but there are always surprises.

EDIT: This post did not come out in the right way. Please see my follow-up later. By "something awesome" I mean "something that makes me laugh or smile or is useful" not "a Type Heaven".

This point still applies: if you are my Secret Santa, and were not expecting to ship to someone in the US, let 7bit know and maybe I'll help with shipping. Maybe.

Sorry about this, but please take me off the list, I'm having second thoughts... I just re-read the picture thread from last year and read about some people's expectations in this thread, and for me, this is getting out of hand. Now, the minimal expectation for this seems to be a nice full mech keyboard sent around the world. Which makes not much sense to me as a concept given shipping costs vs. variety of people's preferences.