deskthority

Spot on coverage by The Onion, as always:

http://www.theonion.com/graphic/who-mike-pence-53218

http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-c ... inde-53220

I was still hoping that somehow Sanders will be one of the options. From my outside point of view, either way, you guys are fucked. Either one of them looks capable (as in dumb enough) to start WW3.

gogusrl wrote: I was still hoping that somehow Sanders will be one of the options. From my outside point of view, either way, you guys are fucked. Either one of them looks capable (as in dumb enough) to start WW3.

Even if Trump goes to the white house he still won't be running the country by himself. In other words he still has to deal with the entire administration, the senate and the house of representatives. While he could do quite a bit of crazy damage there will be someone to prevent him from starting WW3.

seebart wrote:

gogusrl wrote:
I was still hoping that somehow Sanders will be one of the options.

he still has to deal with the entire administration, the senate and the house of representatives. While he could do quite a bit of crazy damage there will be someone to prevent him from starting WW3.

Sanders has done his part and been moderately successful at steering the juggernaut slightly closer to sanity.

In the US, down-ballot races usually follow the Presidential race, so if the Republicans were to win the top spot, he would likely also get a sympathetic Congress that would go along with a lot of nutball stuff.

I don't think that Hillary would start WW3, but I think that Netanyahu and al-Baghdadi, between them, could. Her greatest fault, in my opinion, is her refusal to stand up to the Israel lobby, tell them to get off of the Palestinian Territories immediately, and start a peace process that means something. Nothing less would assuage the legitimate mistrust of even moderate Muslims around the world.

Hey check out the great new logo:

seebart wrote:

gogusrl wrote: I was still hoping that somehow Sanders will be one of the options. From my outside point of view, either way, you guys are fucked. Either one of them looks capable (as in dumb enough) to start WW3.

Even if Trump goes to the white house he still won't be running the country by himself. In other words he still has to deal with the entire administration, the senate and the house of representatives. While he could do quite a bit of crazy damage there will be someone to prevent him from starting WW3.

Refer to Iraq war.

And anyone getting from that logo the feel of Trump's Penis photoshopping in our future?

chuckdee wrote:
And anyone getting from that logo the feel of Trump's Penis photoshopping in our future?

edit - too rude for DT

chuckdee wrote: Refer to Iraq war.

What?

seebart wrote:

chuckdee wrote: Refer to Iraq war.

What?

Based on Bush's lies, the US Congress actually voted to invade Iraq, and "gave him permission" to do it.

Clinton - yea
Pence - yea

Sanders - nay

Sure I know, doesn't mean Trump will be able pull something like that though. Good to see how those three individuals voted on that though, a nice little reminder.

seebart wrote: Sure I know, doesn't mean Trump will be able pull something like that though. Good to see how those three individuals voted on that though, a nice little reminder.

Very true. Doesn't mean he won't either.

chuckdee wrote: And anyone getting from that logo the feel of Trump's Penis photoshopping in our future?

I guess I'm not the only one.

http://www.recode.net/2016/7/15/1220149 ... -logo-meme

So, in case folks don't know, I live in Cleveland. You know, site of the RNC! Oh joy. Thank fuck I live in the suburbs near the airport.

They moved up the road closure schedule significantly today. Maybe it's because of the Pokemon Go traffic (seriously, the amount of traffic anywhere even near Pokestops is off the charts.) But more likely it's because of Nice. They started blocking certain roads with snow plows loaded down with gravel or salt last night (more than 24 hours ahead of schedule), and the highway closures have already been implemented in some areas.

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/ ... hbors.html
And this is the second or third incident just like it in the past week. The hate groups and convention have just emboldened them. I might live in a lily-white town (94% Caucasian per census) but it took Trump and this RNC shitshow to get one of my neighbors to brag about how Trump's gonna "get rid of all those <racial slur> and <racial slur> because America is white."

I hope there are gigantic peaceful protests.

US is fucked. For example, if you don't vote Trump for obvious reasons, and you vote Clinton, you vote for backdoors in encryption. In other words, everything you read and write on the Internet, shall be watched by the government. You'll vote for the Super Stasi. What a choice. How would you tell your (proverbial or not) children and grandchildren later you actually voted that shit in.

webwit wrote: US is fucked. For example, if you don't vote Trump for obvious reasons, and you vote Clinton, you vote for backdoors in encryption. In other words, everything you read and write on the Internet, shall be watched by the government. You'll vote for the Super Stasi. What a choice.

Either way, we are not voting for people that care too much about governing or serving the public. It is all egos. All egos.

I may have mentioned that I work in the Indiana state government with a few people installed by the Pence administration. The administration of the state government has steadily declined under Pence and he has managed to make us a national embarrassment multiple times. They are gutless, self serving, only focused on the appearance of achievement and advancement, and are focused on climbing political ladders rather than doing the job they are hired to do. Some of them are straight up sociopaths. Some just seem like idiots.

They all had stars in their eyes Friday after Pence was named the VP. They don't give two shits about serving the public and running a government agency to carry out it's duty. Some are awful people that should be in charge of a fucking ice cream stand, let alone a government. And in the slim possibility that Trump wins, some of Pence's people will be dragged along and in charge of the third largest nation on the planet.

Someone partisan could issue the same rhetoric about the Democrats. They're both shit. Shit has already won. Like, yay for raging war in the MO for oil, which is not where we live. But how could those terrorists attack our innocents? The evil.

vivalarevolución wrote: I hope there are gigantic peaceful protests.

Bluntly, I hope there is an accidental detonation of a high yield thermonuclear device somewhere next to the Q. Followed by another in Philly. Because that is the only hope for this country. Exterminating everyone from the middle to the top in both parties.

webwit wrote: Someone partisan could issue the same rhetoric about the Democrats. They're both shit. Shit has already won. Like, yay for raging war in the MO for oil, which is not where we live. But how could those terrorists attack our innocents? The evil.

You're right , I didn't feel like going into those yahoos. With these terrorist attacks and mass shootings, we get a taste of the war we have been waging in other corners of the world for decades. Any high level politician in the United States pretty much has blood on their hands.

rootwyrm wrote:

vivalarevolución wrote: I hope there are gigantic peaceful protests.

Bluntly, I hope there is an accidental detonation of a high yield thermonuclear device somewhere next to the Q. Followed by another in Philly. Because that is the only hope for this country. Exterminating everyone from the middle to the top in both parties.

Peace, bro!

vivalarevolución wrote: Either way, we are not voting for people that care too much about governing or serving the public. It is all egos. All egos.

There are other choices. And good ones too. If people realized this, then perhaps we'd have real change.

I'm looking at Gary Johnson and JIll Stein. They both have things about them I disagree with- but not as much as the other two options.

chuckdee wrote:

vivalarevolución wrote: Either way, we are not voting for people that care too much about governing or serving the public. It is all egos. All egos.

There are other choices. And good ones too. If people realized this, then perhaps we'd have real change.

I'm looking at Gary Johnson and JIll Stein. They both have things about them I disagree with- but not as much as the other two options.

Every time a rational person flushes a vote down the toilet, Trump moves closer to the Presidency.

That's your opinion. And I find it highly distasteful. And one of the reasons the country is in the condition it is in right now. We need (at least) a third option, if just to keep the other two in check. And buying into the narrative that they put forth hasn't helped the country so far- because they aren't interested in having the results of that narrative challenged.

Distasteful or not, it's the fact of the matter with this election.

Do whatever you find sensible to make your country get away from the way presidential elections work, but in this 2016 election. the choice is between having Trump and having Clinton as the next president. Whether you vote or not, one of those two alternatives will be the outcome. If only 10% of the people vote, still one of those two alternatives will be the outcome. Not voting is not a statement. It can mean "I don't care, both candidates are fine" as well as "I couldn't be arsed because I don't know what a president is and how (s)he affects my life".

Not voting means voting for whatever those who can be arsed to vote vote for. Which probably means Trump. If you want someone else entirely to be president, fine, but that's not the point of the very vote that takes place this fall. Not voting at all is naive and doesn't change anything about the system, it doesn't even free you from responsibility for the outcome. Every grown-up knows that there are important choices in life that you can't avoid by just not choosing.

Look at all those young Brits who thought they didn't need to vote in the Brexit referendum because the weather was bad and the bookmakers predicted a victory for "stay" anyway...

chuckdee wrote: That's your opinion. And I find it highly distasteful. And one of the reasons the country is in the condition it is in right now. We need (at least) a third option, if just to keep the other two in check. And buying into the narrative that they put forth hasn't helped the country so far- because they aren't interested in having the results of that narrative challenged.

No true "third party" candidate has EVER won a US presidential election.
I agree that this is a poor system with extremely limited choices, but it is what we are stuck with.

"Naive" is the perfect word to describe voting for 3rd party presidential candidates. And understand: I have done it myself, more than once, in my younger years when I thought that I was making a statement. I was not. I was an arrogant fool wasting my precious vote.

A sea change like this starts at the bottom. Until a significant presence of "alternatives" is seen at the local, state, and national levels, the possibility of capturing the White House is utterly nil. In my opinion, until a party can successfully seat at least a dozen Senators and 50 Representatives, more than once, it could never dream of being a contender for the Presidency.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 20927.html

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/a ... -elections

Halvar wrote: Distasteful or not, it's the fact of the matter with this election.

Do whatever you find sensible to make your country get away from the way presidential elections work, but in this 2016 election. the choice is between having Trump and having Clinton as the next president. Whether you vote or not, one of those two alternatives will be the outcome. If only 10% of the people vote, still one of those two alternatives will be the outcome. Not voting is not a statement. It can mean "I don't care, both candidates are fine" as well as "I couldn't be arsed because I don't know what a president is and how (s)he affects my life".

Not voting means voting for whatever those who can be arsed to vote vote for. Which probably means Trump. If you want someone else entirely to be president, fine, but that's not the point of the very vote that takes place this fall. Not voting at all is naive and doesn't change anything about the system, it doesn't even free you from responsibility for the outcome. Every grown-up knows that there are important choices in life that you can't avoid by just not choosing.

Look at all those young Brits who thought they didn't need to vote in the Brexit referendum because the weather was bad and the bookmakers predicted a victory for "stay" anyway...

Where did you get the not voting bit from? That's nowhere near what I said. I said that I will vote for Johnson or Stein- it's a matter of research and how things go at this point, unless one of the parties does something surprising. That's a long way from not voting. And it's not a waste, its a choice. One that others might not agree with- but that doesn't really matter, as it's my choice, and my choice alone.

rootwyrm wrote:
So, in case folks don't know, I live in Cleveland. You know, site of the RNC! Oh joy.

They moved up the road closure schedule significantly today.

I would love to see this billboard that went up in Cleveland a couple of days ago.

chuckdee wrote: Where did you get the not voting bit from? That's nowhere near what I said. I said that I will vote for Johnson or Stein- it's a matter of research and how things go at this point, unless one of the parties does something surprising. That's a long way from not voting. And it's not a waste, its a choice. One that others might not agree with- but that doesn't really matter, as it's my choice, and my choice alone.

Johnson was a construction company CEO and then governor of New Mexico whose three hallmark ideas were vetoing everything that crossed his desk, cutting taxes, and trying to replace public schools with a voucher program.

After two terms he was term limited out, and for the past ~15 years has been a completely irrelevant side show. He has enough money to be retired, so whatever. His primary policy platform is to privatize public services and decriminalize/legalize marijuana.

Stein was a doctor and medical teacher, who after a long career became an environmental activist. She’s not a politician and doesn’t pretend to want to actually win anything.

A vote for either Stein or Johnson is a pure protest vote. Neither has any intention of winning and wouldn’t know what to do if they did win. If you live in an uncompetitive state and don’t care for Clinton or Trump, feel free to vote for one of them. It will accomplish nothing and no one will care, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out. Voting for Johnson sends one of two messages, either (a) “I don’t believe that our society can accomplish public goals, we’re better off without a government, with private for-profit companies providing all services,” or (b) “I am a one issue voter and that issue is marijuana legalization.” Voting for Stein sends the message “I am a one-issue voter, and that issue is environmental protection.” In either case, Stein/Johnson voters aren’t out to actually accomplish any concrete policy goals, but only make a symbolic gesture.

If you live in a competitive state, a vote for either one is a vote for Trump.

Hilarity has ensued...

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/18/12213 ... nger-games

Chaos erupts on GOP convention floor after voice vote shuts down Never Trump forces

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/n ... ote-225716