deskthority

Happens to PBT as well. Those switches simply aren't MX compatible in this version. So measure first before you put anything on them. You won't be able to use it anywhere else. Also material fatigue might kill the caps completely even on Boxes over time.
source: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... _keys_are/

Muirium wrote:

hansichen wrote:
Instead of linear box switches I would always recommend retooled Cherry mx black switches, they are smooth and as we know for over 30 years now they are designed perfectly. And with 20ct per switch they are also the cheapest option out there: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a- ... ericas-llc

Retooled, eh?

Cherry updated their MX black tooling in late 2016, therefore newer switches are way smoother than the normal mid 2000 switches. People say that they are around the level of average vintage blacks

Ah. Cherry innovation—namely renovation—at last!

Is this refreshed tooling at work in their own new stuff too, like their dampened switches? Hope so.

I only really liked them after applying some lube, but yeah. Being able to buy new switches I would build a board with is a nice thing.

It applies to the linear molds and their new dampened linear, I think. There's a little notch on the top of the stem which is an easy way to tell them apart, maybe someone has a picture ready, I would have to dig everything out and take one first.

Muirium wrote:

hansichen wrote:
Instead of linear box switches I would always recommend retooled Cherry mx black switches, they are smooth and as we know for over 30 years now they are designed perfectly. And with 20ct per switch they are also the cheapest option out there: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a- ... ericas-llc

Retooled, eh?

Nothing compares to "VINT BLACKS" the meme of switches they are way better than the retooled blacks and the price point is totally worth it trust...... /s

If you had ever seen switches from the 2000 to 2010 period compared to ~90 ones you wouldn't make fun of it like that.

Btw I really wonder when the BOX mount got out of spec or if it has always been this way. The keyset death toll must be... enormous.

TheInverseKey wrote:

Muirium wrote:

hansichen wrote:
Instead of linear box switches I would always recommend retooled Cherry mx black switches, they are smooth and as we know for over 30 years now they are designed perfectly. And with 20ct per switch they are also the cheapest option out there: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a- ... ericas-llc

Retooled, eh?

Nothing compares to "VINT BLACKS" the meme of switches they are way better than the retooled blacks and the price point is totally worth it trust...... /s

vintage blacks truly are better most times, and are pretty much the same price (less if you're smart about buying them) as modern retooled black

TheInverseKey wrote:

chuckdee wrote:

Muirium wrote: I wasn’t around for their hype phase. What’s meant to be so good about them? Stability? Smoothness?

The tactility is supposed to be good also. I'm just glad I never got around to getting them. Those measurements are pretty concerning as in they'd explain the cracking, but there's been no official response. Mike at NovelKeys is a cool guy that worked with Kailh on these and he's built his business off of that relationship. Sucks to see this happening.

And if you haven't been keeping up, Kailh is now one of the best switch companies, with the other companies not really innovating as much as they have. Their speed switches are great!

I would never really put that much money into a unknown switch good thing that I only bought cheap caps that I knew I didn't care about. But from the start you could tell that there was something off with the amount of force needed to put the caps on.

Haven't used box, but I have the speed copper on a BananaSplit with GMK Nautilus on it, and have had no forcing necessary and no damage evident.

chuckdee wrote: Haven't used box, but I have the speed copper on a BananaSplit with GMK Nautilus on it, and have had no forcing necessary and no damage evident.

Only the BOX seems to be the 'Shredder' at this point in time .

The NORMAL and quite boring looking - MX standard 'stem-top' section of these switches made by Kailh, are totally unaffected.

If we are being realistic, the best that we can anticipate is an apology from Kailh and a promise to hold to higher tolerances in the future. They should also make the case on the BOX V2 switch different enough (maybe a logo, etc) so that the old suspect switches can be separated from the Version 2 switches.

Wintermute1974 wrote: They should also make the case on the BOX V2 switch different enough (maybe a logo, etc) so that the old suspect switches can be separated from the Version 2 switches.

That would be the decent thing to do BUT what about us lot who already bought this switch, what are we to do?

Maybe, this is just my usual late at night fantasies here, how about shaving off the sides of the BOX cross fitting?

If you shave off the plastic a little it would no longer crack any key-cap placed upon the MX shaft. It would be extremely tedious and have a very steady hand to do this but it should be achievable.

Have a supply of very sharp scalpels (don't ask where I got them from) that would easily slice open anything with little force.

Elrick wrote: What about us lot who already bought this switch, what are we to do?

A purpose-built MX-stem shaving tool would be an ideal solution: You would push your MX switch into this device and it would come out shaved to known, safe, keycap-friendly dimensions.

There are similar devices for other purposes:

• You can buy SIM card punches to turn big SIM cards into either micro or nano SIM cards.
• You could buy a floppy disk punch that would turn a single-sided floppy disk into a double-sided floppy disk. (This second example is a bit dated. The 1980s are calling on my landline phone right now asking for their example back.)

How many people would buy an MX-stem shaving tool? It's hard to say. That is why I think we will just have to buy BOX V2 switches, if or when they ever come out.

The tool could also be useful to test tolerances before putting caps on them. If they're fine, it will do nothing. But if not, it would shave off the extra. I think that would be useful... rather test with something like that than my caps.

«Gillette MaX shaving tool, now for all your MX-compatible keycaps!»

How about using a metal keycap?

A lot of science of good information. But leaves me wondering; where is the good old fashion outrage?

snacksthecat wrote: A lot of science of good information. But leaves me wondering; where is the good old fashion outrage?

I'm glad that for once the community is being more level-headed about a response. Makes gathering the requisite information a lot easy. Let cooler heads prevail, IMO.

Every BOX switch sold on NovelKeys is currently marked as "SOLD OUT".
On every product page, there's a disclaimer:

Please note that BOX stems are slightly thicker than Cherry stems. There have been some reports of cracking/stretching on GMK keycaps. We have sent this information on to Kailh and GMK.

I have not been in the market for BOX switches lately. It could be a coincidence, but it may be that the guy behind NovelKeys is being proactive. I would like to think so.

The small Navy switch pack I got off Ebay just arrived today, and the stems look a lot cleaner and less deformed. Still pretty tight, but they wouldn't crack any of my keycaps. I ordered it a few weeks ago, it may be new molds? The switches that cracked some of my Wyse caps were used in a keyboard previously, so they were likely early production switches. Either way, just to be safe, I'll get a metal keycap and use it to ream the stems before I install the final keycaps on future projects.

Wintermute1974 wrote:

Elrick wrote: What about us lot who already bought this switch, what are we to do?

A purpose-built MX-stem shaving tool would be an ideal solution: You would push your MX switch into this device and it would come out shaved to known, safe, keycap-friendly dimensions.

There are similar devices for other purposes:

• You can buy SIM card punches to turn big SIM cards into either micro or nano SIM cards.
• You could buy a floppy disk punch that would turn a single-sided floppy disk into a double-sided floppy disk. (This second example is a bit dated. The 1980s are calling on my landline phone right now asking for their example back.)

How many people would buy an MX-stem shaving tool? It's hard to say. That is why I think we will just have to buy BOX V2 switches, if or when they ever come out.

wtf am I reading here? Are there really people that think that you can "shave" 0.05mm off a stem??? Just trash that junk and buy real switches.

hansichen wrote:
wtf am I reading here? Are there really people that think that you can "shave" 0.05mm off a stem??? Just trash that junk and buy real switches.

couldn't have said it better myself.

Wintermute1974 wrote: Every BOX switch sold on NovelKeys is currently marked as "SOLD OUT".
On every product page, there's a disclaimer:

Please note that BOX stems are slightly thicker than Cherry stems. There have been some reports of cracking/stretching on GMK keycaps. We have sent this information on to Kailh and GMK.

I have not been in the market for BOX switches lately. It could be a coincidence, but it may be that the guy behind NovelKeys is being proactive. I would like to think so.

It's good to stop selling this crap but I feel bad that GMK gets messaged cause some Chinese manufacturer is too stupid to produce proper switches.

hansichen wrote:

Wintermute1974 wrote:

Elrick wrote: What about us lot who already bought this switch, what are we to do?

A purpose-built MX-stem shaving tool would be an ideal solution: You would push your MX switch into this device and it would come out shaved to known, safe, keycap-friendly dimensions.

There are similar devices for other purposes:

• You can buy SIM card punches to turn big SIM cards into either micro or nano SIM cards.
• You could buy a floppy disk punch that would turn a single-sided floppy disk into a double-sided floppy disk. (This second example is a bit dated. The 1980s are calling on my landline phone right now asking for their example back.)

How many people would buy an MX-stem shaving tool? It's hard to say. That is why I think we will just have to buy BOX V2 switches, if or when they ever come out.

wtf am I reading here? Are there really people that think that you can "shave" 0.05mm off a stem??? Just trash that junk and buy real switches.

Just because there is a problem, doesn't mean that the switches are bad. Just the manufacturing tolerances are off.

Wintermute1974 wrote:

Elrick wrote: What about us lot who already bought this switch, what are we to do?

A purpose-built MX-stem shaving tool would be an ideal solution: You would push your MX switch into this device and it would come out shaved to known, safe, keycap-friendly dimensions.

There are similar devices for other purposes:

• You can buy SIM card punches to turn big SIM cards into either micro or nano SIM cards.
• You could buy a floppy disk punch that would turn a single-sided floppy disk into a double-sided floppy disk. (This second example is a bit dated. The 1980s are calling on my landline phone right now asking for their example back.)

How many people would buy an MX-stem shaving tool? It's hard to say. That is why I think we will just have to buy BOX V2 switches, if or when they ever come out.

"Now available in the NovelKeys shop..."



THE STEMSHAVER 9000

snacksthecat wrote:

Wintermute1974 wrote:

Elrick wrote: What about us lot who already bought this switch, what are we to do?

A purpose-built MX-stem shaving tool would be an ideal solution: You would push your MX switch into this device and it would come out shaved to known, safe, keycap-friendly dimensions.

There are similar devices for other purposes:

• You can buy SIM card punches to turn big SIM cards into either micro or nano SIM cards.
• You could buy a floppy disk punch that would turn a single-sided floppy disk into a double-sided floppy disk. (This second example is a bit dated. The 1980s are calling on my landline phone right now asking for their example back.)

How many people would buy an MX-stem shaving tool? It's hard to say. That is why I think we will just have to buy BOX V2 switches, if or when they ever come out.

"Now available in the NovelKeys shop..."



THE STEMSHAVER 9000

How much are these bad boys going for? Also is there a manual version I don't want to buy batteries.

chuckdee wrote: Just because there is a problem, doesn't mean that the switches are bad. Just the manufacturing tolerances are off.

100% Correct.

Still place them (Blue Navy) way above all other MX switches due to their very nice 'Clicky' response, equal to Blue Alps on a Good Day .

Shall just shave off some of the MX cross edges, to enable perfect fitment on all of my remaining Key-caps.

The Metal Key-cap (which I have lots of) is an extremely Brilliant idea, as it can reduce the shape of the BOX switches easily without damage to the key-cap.

Only let down, I have to insert and re-insert that key-cap multiple times on every single BOX switch, in my keyboards. Looks like we do have a solution here, without needing to use scalpels or shaving instruments .

Thank you DT for being ever so helpful with your suggestions, much appreciated.

Just wanted to say that my set, the Filco branded one made by Signature Plastic, is affected as well.
No cracks luckily, only stress marks.

Elrick wrote: The Metal Key-cap […] can reduce the shape of the BOX switches easily without damage to the key-cap.

Only let down, I have to insert and re-insert that key-cap multiple times on every single BOX switch, in my keyboards. Looks like we do have a solution here

Can you give a link or a brand name to the metal caps you used? I have never considered metal caps before and do not know where to start.

Two from amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/KUIYN-Generic-Ba ... 07B9BH8XD/

https://www.amazon.com/Quartet-trade-Ge ... 07DTDW6MN/

And from aliexpress (where I got mine, though not these)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs-Zi ... 28361.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wholesa ... 14963.html

And from etsy (where I got mine, though not these)

https://www.etsy.com/listing/557190461/ ... -keycap-mx

https://www.etsy.com/listing/525286526/ ... -keycap-mx

What you want to make sure is that they show you the bottom, so that you can make sure that the stem is metal. If it's not, it will have the same problem as standard caps.

Have you measured the results?