deskthority

Yes, I know this is in a way heresy since it's a topic that's not about a mechanical keyboard. But, I feel that since it's at least HHKB related maybe you could let it slide?

Anyway, I've grown really curious about the HHKB layout but I can't justify to buy a Pro 2 on my budget. Enter Lite 2!
Basically my plan is to buy a Lite 2 and see how I feel about the layout. The thing is, the Lite 2 isn't exactly free either so I would like to hear some opinions so I don't buy something that'll just end up in the garbage. How's the build quality, the feel and so on?

I'm guessing that all the older HHKB models are way more expensive than a Lite 2, am I correct? Otherwise they would also be interesting options.

Thanks for all your input!

Your plan sounds good -- saving money for Pro and then disliking it would be a waste of money (of course, you can always sell it). But, back to the Lite 2 -- the only reason there is not much about it on this site is that Lite2 not a mechanical keyboard. Having said that, it's probably the best keyboard under US $90. It's not mechanical and it doesn't feel mechanical; it's a rubber dome over membrane but it doesn't feel like a typical membrane keyboard either. It's like Lite gives you a unique feeling that is liked much by many who try it. Maybe it's the uniform 55g press or something else but it feels better than most keyboards in that price range (and better than many more expensive keyboards). Anyways, you really can't go wrong with HHKB Lite 2 as an intro to Pro.

I say get a Pro if you can afford it.If you like it you saved yourself the cost of the Lite which will be quite hard to sell, and if you don't like it you can sell it easily and lose less than the cost of the Lite.

What Chzel said. Better to get the good one that you can sell than the cheap one that you might end up stuck with.

Also: the Lite's layout is a crime against the very concept of the HHKB. It's a cynical attempt to cash in on the name.

I agree with Mu and chzel, naturally. That said, I got an exceptionally good deal on a used HHKB Pro 1 and got it for 110 euro.

The HHKB Lite is grossly overpriced for a rubber dome over membrane board, so I wouldn't consider getting one unless it was at a fraction of its market price.

My advice would be to do your best to emulate a 60% keyboard on your current keyboard using remapping software, see if you think you could deal with the layout, and start saving.

Yup. When saving up for something good, it really helps to avoid spending on lower end stuff along the way. The Lite isn't a quarter the keyboard the Pro is.

To emulate an HHKB, you've got to map its function layer of course. That's where the adaptation lies: in the arrow diamond. Even a Poker — the quintessential 60% — won't give you a taste of the HHKB's layout. It also really helps if you have a board to play with that has a short right Shift so you can put the Fn key in its right place. That one switch is the key to the whole HHKB.

Wow! Thank you all for the great response!

After hearing what you've all said, taken a quick look at what an used HHKB Pro 2 usually goes for and checking my bank account I think I'm going to go straight for a Pro 2.
I've actually played around a little with my current keyboard (like swapping ctrl and caps lock) so I'm quite confident I will be happy with the layout.

Once again, thanks for all of your input (pun intended)!


By the way, if anyone of you've got a white one to spare I might just be able to take it of your hands.

White one: good choice!


(Not for sale.)

Muirium wrote: White one: good choice!


(Not for sale.)

What case is that?

HHKB do confuse me sometimes. There are so many models .

Can i get the white one, with PBT caps and lettering ? What about the weight can i get the lighter topre keys ?

There are two types, normal Pro 2 or Pro 2 Type-S. The difference is that the Type-S are silenced. You can get both types in both black and white, with optional lettering. All of the caps are PBT, all of the domes are 45g uniform.

Yup. There's not as many HHKBs are you think, Andy. Ignoring the non Pro (non Topre) models you get just a few things to choose between:

• ANSI-like layout (HHKB Pro) or JIS (HHKB Pro JP)?
• White or black?
• Standard or damped (Type-S)? Note that Type-S comes only in the true HHKB white colour scheme. That's my model above.
• Dyesub caps or blanks? As Scott says: they're all PBT besides the spacebar, in any case.

Key weight is not on the list. They're all 45g uniform.

RoastPotatoes wrote: What case is that?

The official Happy Hacking one:

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products. ... d=pdkb01sd

Not that I bought it from EK, or paid that much. Got it for about half, from Amazon Japan and Tenso.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/put ... t9413.html

Aren't JIS spacebars PBT?

I think so. But sometimes you see signs they weren't always:
http://deskthority.net/post212079.html#p212079

Thanks , i just looked at this table

http://deskthority.net/wiki/HHKB_Professional

and got all confused.

That's what wikis are for! Search for "HHKB HG" if you dare…

http://deskthority.net/search.php?keywo ... mit=Search

I'm not suggeting that one for anybody.

Whoops, good point about the spacebar, Mu - I didn't think to mention that!

The HG is a whole different kettle of fish. Maybe one day, when I'm a millionaire philanthropist!

indubit wrote: ... After hearing what you've all said, taken a quick look at what an used HHKB Pro 2 usually goes for and checking my bank account I think I'm going to go straight for a Pro 2. ...

That will work, too . If you have never experienced Topre, make sure you do find someone with a Topre keyboard and try -- Topre is the essential *feel* and price difference in Pro. Everything else is a thing of personal preference (some like JP layout, some don't, etc.). These are the things that make Pro (rather than Lite):

- Topre switch (vs. rubber dome over membrane)
- some of the best PBT caps ever (vs. ABS, though a rather nicely textured ABS)
- 6 DIP switches (vs. 4)
- detachable USB (vs. fixed)

That's about it + (subjective) the incredible Topre feel + bragging rights . I sold my white Pro to get Type-S and it's even better, IMO. But it's about $90 more than the standard Pro.

I actually have a Realforce so I know about the Topre feel (yes it's amazing). I would probably have bought a HHKB before but I kind of got lured towards the cherrys by all the fun keycaps and keyboards I could potentially buy and customize. I finally realized that not only did the HHKB seem to have the most sane layout and amazing switches it also looked pretty much exacly like how I wanted my customized cherry boards to look.

Is there anything else to the Type-S besides it being quieter?

Well, it has a Type-S logo on the top right, so technically "yes"!

indubit wrote: ...
Is there anything else to the Type-S besides it being quieter?

Nope. Just more quiet. In retrospect, I didn't mind unsilenced HHKB since I don't mind them on my RFs. But it was something different to try . If anything, unsilenced Topre produce a very agreeable sound that's not much louder than a typical membrane.

Topre has quite a nice sound, aye. But I wouldn't say it's as quiet as that. Even Type-S is louder than a modern cheapo keyboard. All that mush they pour in the things nowadays works wonders!

Muirium wrote: Topre has quite a nice sound, aye. But I wouldn't say it's as quiet as that. Even Type-S is louder than a modern cheapo keyboard. All that mush they pour in the things nowadays works wonders!

I think you are right ... maybe I'm just surrounded by people who no matter how much mush is stuffed into those keyboards they are still pounding on them like there's no tomorrow. A mushed keyboard under a heavy attack produces weird and unpleasant noises , especially when those membranes get weaker and takes much more force ...

derp

Hey indubit, you might find this interesting:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/PFU-Happy-Hackin ... SS:IE:3160
Not cheap, but certainly cheaper than a new lite!

Of course, you can also mod the HHKB Pro 2 to some degree. Here is an early pic of my black HHKB Pro 2 with added silencing rings and 55g domes from donor RF boards. The red caps are from EK.com and the blue caps are from a Topre RF set purchased from "widebasket" on eBay. The black spacebar and mods came with the black HHKB Pro 2. I have since replaced the original mods with black blanks from a set purchased from EK.com, but I haven't yet taken photos of the latest version.

For additional silencing, I put 1/8-inch silicone sponge in the back of the case, lubed the slider rails and stabilizers, and added self-adhesive rubber squares atop the pads under the spacebar. This DIY Type-S is quieter than a stock Type-S. I'm in the process of making audio recordings -- I intend to post these in a separate thread after completing tests on new silencing rings I'm having made.