deskthority

I have just opened my newly purchased SSK with a screw-mod. This is my second SSK, the first is unmodded so I hope to write a short review in due course, after I have had the chance to use them interchangeably for a week or so.

But before I do that... the writing that is, not the using, has anyone already completed such a comparison, and written about it?

With best wishes, and happy Sunday.

I think that the consensus is usually the improvement is "underwhelming" that is there is no flash of excitement or gush of emotion - a Model M that is working properly before a bolt mod will not really be all that different afterwards.

If it was so out of sorts that things were rattling around, then yes, tightening it up will make a big difference. And turning screws allows you to "tune" the plates to suit your personal preferences.

But overall, the heavens will not open up and the earth will not move.

Consensus is a strong word when it comes to keyboards!

I've heard some pretty high praise from bolt modders and screw modders about the transformative powers of their work. I tried it once myself on an M122 that really needed torn down, and taught me my way around inside. Very time consuming work. Really revived that battleship. Yet the fact I haven't bothered with it on my loose SSK says a bit…

What may well make the earth open and the heavens move is a Model F conversion. I'm following i$ and others work on that. If distantly for the meanwhile.

fohat wrote: I think that the consensus is usually the improvement is "underwhelming" that is there is no flash of excitement or gush of emotion - a Model M that is working properly before a bolt mod will not really be all that different afterwards.

If it was so out of sorts that things were rattling around, then yes, tightening it up will make a big difference. And turning screws allows you to "tune" the plates to suit your personal preferences.

But overall, the heavens will not open up and the earth will not move.

You also have the opportunity to do an ANSI/ISO layout swap. And you can replace the most-used springs with the least used springs, which can make a big difference in keyfeel as well as sound.

I'm bolt-modding a Unicomp M122 just because I want to swap the layout from ISO to ANSI. Additionally, the board itself is in poor shape (I take good care of my keyboards, but I got this one from eBay second-hand) so it really needs a thorough cleaning.

fohat wrote: I think that the consensus is usually the improvement is "underwhelming" that is there is no flash of excitement or gush of emotion - a Model M that is working properly before a bolt mod will not really be all that different afterwards.

If it was so out of sorts that things were rattling around, then yes, tightening it up will make a big difference. And turning screws allows you to "tune" the plates to suit your personal preferences.

But overall, the heavens will not open up and the earth will not move.

Thanks for the comment, what is your personal experience with the mod?

Muirium wrote: Consensus is a strong word when it comes to keyboards!

I've heard some pretty high praise from bolt modders and screw modders about the transformative powers of their work. I tried it once myself on an M122 that really needed torn down, and taught me my way around inside. Very time consuming work. Really revived that battleship. Yet the fact I haven't bothered with it on my loose SSK says a bit…

What may well make the earth open and the heavens move is a Model F conversion. I'm following i$ and others work on that. If distantly for the meanwhile.

I am proud to be the owner of the SSK that was modded by i$ at a mobile service station! Long story but thanks to shreebles for the board, I understand he also did some of the screws himself in DE.

It is a difficult one to call and that is why I said that long term testing will be required before I write a comparison. An aid for those either considering the work themselves for having it done for them. Before I took the plunge, I was unable to find anything like this online so I hope it helps.

But saying that, the two boards DO in fact feel quite different and it will take some time to realise which I prefer. Incidentally both boards are '87s being 'born' two months apart.

With best,

ShivaYash wrote:
modded by i$ at a mobile service station!

I think that is the first time I have ever used one of those things.

First, I have only done full "bolt" mods which is generally understood as completely disassembling the beast down to its constituent parts, and putting it back together with machine screws and nuts (washers, too, wherever possible).

Speaking for myself, I want to thoroughly clean every single part and put them all back together in pristine condition and adjustment. Running screws in from one side without peeling the layers apart is a partial job to me, but it must be VASTLY easier. What I do takes a couple of hours not including drying time after the soap & water scrub.

And you have to take it apart if you want to shuffle spring locations.

PS - it is my experience that no 2 Model M/Fs are ever alike

Around 12 hours in, using the screw-modded board and I can confirm that it is far superior to my previous SSK... it feels so much tighter, and whilst this may sound trite, given it has been totally stripped down and refurbished, with replacement parts where needed, I think to those who think the bolt/screw mod is not for them, I'd suggest they try one. I was in the same camp but am glad to have made the switch over. In some ways, I feel a little sad, having something other than 'stock' inside but I feel the mod is worth it, in terms of key click, feel and accuracy.

As I said in the OP, a full review will be forthcoming shortly, after a period of longer term use.

ShivaYash wrote: Around 12 hours in, using the screw-modded oboard and I can confirm that it is far superior to my previous SSK...

Nice to read that my effort was useful. I guess it is one of these workshop-f7/m-repair-centre-3-x-ssk-t10 ... lit=repair

idollar wrote:

ShivaYash wrote: Around 12 hours in, using the screw-modded oboard and I can confirm that it is far superior to my previous SSK...

Nice to read that my effort was useful. I guess it is one of these workshop-f7/m-repair-centre-3-x-ssk-t10 ... lit=repair

Very very nice work... if you keep records it was the 9 November 1987, ID number 2176940.

Perhaps I can send my previous SSK for service

With best,
SY

ShivaYash wrote: Very very nice work... if you keep records it was the 9 November 1987, ID number 2176940.
Perhaps I can send my previous SSK for service
With best,
SY

I do not keep records of all what I do

PM me, lets see what can we do with this SSK

Thanks, I did send you a message earlier... but perhaps it got lost.
I'll re-message.

fohat wrote:

I think that is the first time I have ever used one of those things.

First, I have only done full "bolt" mods which is generally understood as completely disassembling the beast down to its constituent parts, and putting it back together with machine screws and nuts (washers, too, wherever possible).

Speaking for myself, I want to thoroughly clean every single part and put them all back together in pristine condition and adjustment. Running screws in from one side without peeling the layers apart is a partial job to me, but it must be VASTLY easier. What I do takes a couple of hours not including drying time after the soap & water scrub.

And you have to take it apart if you want to shuffle spring locations.

PS - it is my experience that no 2 Model M/Fs are ever alike

Fohat - don't worry.
We don't simply drive screws through the rivet locations. We did a full teardown including cleaning of course.
It is indeed vastly easier. Madhias posted a full guide here.
I do not know if a bolt-mod is in any way superior to screws, but something that is good enough for idollar and madhias is certainly good enough for me, and I think these two also have a good bit of experience under their belt.

Idollar: I PM'd you about this. You should remember this keyboard and had I known that you wanted it, you would have it now.

I have executed, tested and own both screw and bolt mods.
There is virtually no difference when using the keyboards (at least that I can notice).

At restoration time, the different in effort is huge. This difference comes from the fact that with screws one does not need to flip the board to insert the screws, and therefore the risk of misplacing the flippers is close to null. Instead, bolts require to flip the board, which means that it is very likely that at least one flipper moves and one has to start the complete process from scratch. A real pain.

idollar wrote:
This difference comes from the fact that with screws one does not need to flip the board to insert the screws, and therefore the risk of misplacing the flippers is close to null.

Instead, bolts require to flip the board, which means that it is very likely that at least one flipper moves and one has to start the complete process from scratch.

Flip the board?

My screws go downwards (heads visible between keys) and I install them all the way into and through the barrel plate.

Then I turn that upside-down and stack the layers onto the protruding screws and batten them down with the bolts and washers on the back of the plate.

That is the traditional Sandy55 method I learned years ago and never seemed to want to go any other way.

I greatly appreciate having a screw-mod SSK in my life, but one thing I can confirm is that I prefer, (SHOCK) the un-screw-mod SSK!! It may be that I can tune the other one to my liking but having just switched back after a few days of use, my original one seems more in tune with my fingers, strange and crazy I know, but the keys just feel lighter to the touch and somehow, more accurate as a result. The keys definately sound better with the screws, not so tinny and hollow, I'll try and record this at the weekend and upload for others to hear the difference. The larger keys like the return and shifts would benefit from rivets on my original unit, that is for sure, but with this in mind, where it matters, the alphabet, the original unit, for the moment is my preference. AND what we have to factor in is that every MODEL M will feel different - but why? Is this because they have aged in a particular way? I have a full sized MODEL M, in very nice condition with no broken rivets, and it feels even lighter! So for the time being, the jury is still out. No conclusions are being drawn, and I will continue to alternate at least a few more times.

Goodnight.

ShivaYash wrote:
It may be that I can tune the other one to my liking

I recommend that you begin by loosening the screws by half a turn each.

fohat wrote:

ShivaYash wrote:
It may be that I can tune the other one to my liking

I recommend that you begin by loosening the screws by half a turn each.

Shall try and revert.

So I've been switching between the two boards and can confirm the differences between a modified and unmodified board are indeed nuanced however as I am in the somewhat lucky position of having two such boards in front of me, I can most definitely tell the difference. This is notwithstanding the fact that no two boards will feel the same in any event...

However with the age (and mileage) these boards are clocking up, I think a screw mod really does make sense, given the tight feeling it restores. Although I am still undecided which one I actually prefer, after an almost solid week of using my original unmodified board, I write this message on the screw mod unit, and the difference is a pleasure. The keys are smoother and the keytouch is lighter... whether or not such differences are significant, is up for debate, but the difference is very much there.

I think there is very little else to say about the matter now, and I hope this has proven useful for some.