deskthority

What would be your favorite switch for gaming?

I used the Model M SSK and it was pretty good! Buckling spring feels very natural for gaming to me.

I used Topre 55G for gaming there is a bit of fatigue. I am going to get a 45G soon. Not a fan of the crispness of the "pop" on the 55g.

MX Cherry Blues and Browns don't do it for me.


What is your favorite switch for gaming?

Kahl Blues.

MrDuul wrote: MX Cherry Blues and Browns don't do it for me.

I agree, my first mechanical keyboard used Cherry Blues and it just felt weird to me after transitioning from a non-mechanical keyboard for games, although I do think Browns are a good middle-of-the-road option.

As for the best for gaming, I like Cherry MX Blacks and, although I don't own one myself, I have used a keyboard with Gateron Yellows in the past and remember them feeling pretty similar to Blacks, if a little bit softer. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with the Blacks though.

MrDuul wrote: I used the Model M SSK and it was pretty good! Buckling spring feels very natural for gaming to me.
...
What is your favorite switch for gaming?

Same here: I use an M/SSK for everything else so I use it for gaming too. Although some gamers prefer reds, I find that sort of thing a bit too sensitive, though I'm no sort of "twitch gamer": I mostly play RPGs rather badly.

The only downside is that it can be a bit clattery and my partner has been known to object if I'm having an all-night gaming bender!

I don't game, but my teenage son is very happy with Cherry blacks and O-rings.

Some people like to say that buckling springs aren't well-suited for gaming, but I've had no issues either. Ultimately, switch choice does not matter to me as much as KRO.

Some non-NKRO keyboards can better handle gaming than others.. I've yet to have problems with Model Ms, while Apple M0116s are definitely a no-go.

I used to play CS:GO with an MX black, but it made my fingers very fatigued after 1-2 hours playing every time. Now I use an SSK for gaming, feel better, although it's not NKRO. I am thinking of buying a Plum 84 Gateron Red 45g...

I definitely need clicky switches for gaming the actuation feedback is crucial. Also I prefer a keyboard with slightly larger keycap dimensions for better handling. Yeah the Model M is a pretty damn good gaming keyboard.

Mr.Nobody wrote: ...Now I use an SSK for gaming, feel better, although it's not NKRO. I am thinking of buying a Plum 84 Gateron Red 45g...

I would certainly have problems gaming on an SSK (2KRO if I'm not mistaken), the cherry 1800 (and Compaq 11800) I use have an empirical rollover of 3-4 keys and I regularly bump into that limit playing CS:GO

I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

Chyros wrote: I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

What keyboards would you recommend with Fujitsu leaf springs

Is it because of my understanding to NKRO is wrong? I don´t know why people say M is 2KRO, in fact, it´s 6KRO(6 keys most at the same time), via USB adapter at least. I don´t encounter any problem playing CS:GO with my SSK, it only uses 4 keys at most...

Mr.Nobody wrote: Is it because of my understanding to NKRO is wrong? I don´t know why people say M is 2KRO, in fact, it´s 6KRO(6 keys most at the same time), via USB adapter at least. I don´t encounter any problem playing CS:GO with my SSK, it only uses 4 keys at most...

When I grew up in the 90s, I played with my dads Model M keyboard, loved it and had no problems.

Bought the SSK Model M and BOOM brought right back to that amazing feel.

Buckling Spring is amazing for gaming, need to try Model F soon......

Mr.Nobody wrote: Is it because of my understanding to NKRO is wrong? I don´t know why people say M is 2KRO, in fact, it´s 6KRO(6 keys most at the same time), via USB adapter at least. I don´t encounter any problem playing CS:GO with my SSK, it only uses 4 keys at most...

Your understanding is wrong. NKRO generally means "press any combination of keys and it'll work" (let's exclude cases where the OS won't). As the Deskthority Wiki says, all the numbered variants are instead used to indicate that there is some kind of limitation. This limitation can be due to the keyboard's hardware, the OS or the protocol used to communicate between the two (USB in legacy mode is limited to 6 keys + modifiers).

In the case of the IBM model M, the keyboard's (diodeless) matrix means that some combination of keys will be prone to ghosting (from that thread I would guess Q, A, F). When those are pressed, you create a "ghosting" condition. The keyboard controller will throw its hands in the air and only send two keys out of those 3 (likely the first two it detected before you pressed the third).

Because people might need some longer combinations in games, the model M is therefore labeled as 2KRO just to be safe as only 2-key combinations are always guaranteed to work. Longer is possible, e.g. from the matrix I linked you could pick 7 keys which don't have a row and column number in common, but you would then need to memorize those combinations.

MrDuul wrote:

Chyros wrote: I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

What keyboards would you recommend with Fujitsu leaf springs

None readily available. You have to take your luck picking in recycle bins

Back to topic. I don't game much, but when playing casual SC2 or Overwatch I'm happy with whatever I currently use. That is nowadays:
- Unicomp Ultra Classic (BS, fine for any game really, it is 2KRO in theory, but I noticed it doesn't block less than 4 keys in WASD region, including ZXCFREQ),
- HHKB (a bit shitty for SC2 to be honest, good for FPS though),
- Filco with MX Browns (proper hardware NKRO with 6KRO limit due to USB, switch is fine for just about everything, not exceptionally great at anything but maybe ergonomics)

I also have a Filco with MX Reds in aluminium case with GMK double shots but it's more of a showpiece, I don't actually like using it for anything. Switches are too scratchy for typing or gaming, keycaps don't fit right with Costar stabilisers, but it looks really awesome.

The other contender could be a Model F AT modded to USB with internal soarers converter, which is true NKRO over USB, but I don't like the ping and layout, while OK for gaming, is pretty useless for normal use (I absolutely need 2 ALT GR keys on each side of space bar for typing Polish characters, win key on right and normal alt for alt tabbing on left).

The last keyboard I rarely use for gaming is GH60 with 62G zealios. That switch is quite fine for typing but I think it's too tactile for gaming. It's a bit better than HHKB for gaming because I have a left FN key so I can hit F1 - F4 (needed in SC2) with one hand on a mouse. This keyboard is most often used as a travel keyboard (ultra light, no plate, switches PCB mounted) or with my Raspberry Pi projects as it's the only one that as hardware mouse keys.

MrDuul wrote:

Chyros wrote: I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

What keyboards would you recommend with Fujitsu leaf springs

The Tandy 3000 keyboard is the only FLS keyboard with an easily convertible protocol; XT. As it happens, that model also has NKRO.

Chyros wrote: I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

3rd gen. is a fantastic switch unfortunately not plentiful.

seebart wrote:

Chyros wrote: I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

3rd gen. is a fantastic switch unfortunately not plentiful.

Indeed. If I were to design a linear switch, it'd be based off that platform, though.

Chyros wrote:

seebart wrote:

Chyros wrote: I've had excellent results with Fujitsu leaf springs.

3rd gen. is a fantastic switch unfortunately not plentiful.

Indeed. If I were to design a linear switch, it'd be based off that platform, though.

Agreed. In fact people should forget about trying to reproduce Beamspring and look at FLS 3rd gen. The design is brilliant, almost no friction resulting in a super smooth switch. Getting those leafs down to the right specs might not be easy though, people tend to underestimate these details IMO. Just copying the mechanism probably won't do.

wiki/Fujitsu_Leaf_Spring

czarek wrote:
I absolutely need 2 ALT GR keys on each side of space bar for typing Polish characters,

The first pair is not terribly hard to achieve.

seebart wrote: Agreed. In fact people should forget about trying to reproduce Beamspring and look at FLS 3rd gen. The design is brilliant, almost no friction resulting in a super smooth switch. Getting those leafs down to the right specs might not be easy though, people tend to underestimate these details IMO. Just copying the mechanism probably won't do.

wiki/Fujitsu_Leaf_Spring

Depends on whether you like linear or clicky switches :p . Beam or plate spring mechanisms are particularly suited for clicky, tactile switches IMO.

fohat wrote:

czarek wrote:
I absolutely need 2 ALT GR keys on each side of space bar for typing Polish characters,

The first pair is not terribly hard to achieve.

I know it's not but given the fact I don't like the sound of Model Fs, I prefer to keep it in original condition as a collectible item. Well not original maybe as it has been re-conditioned from 2 horrible keyboards out of which I made one amazing show piece and one that can only serve a parts donor - it has broken case and missing keycaps, but electronics (PCBs, controller, pivot plates/springs) are fine.

Actually out of all BS boards my favourite sounding one is very heavily used Model M from 1988, which feels a bit mushy when hardly bottomed our. It sounds slightly muffled, without any ringing or pinging, but not as clacky as Unicomp and obviously much much quieter - music to my ears.

czarek wrote:

fohat wrote:

czarek wrote:
I absolutely need 2 ALT GR keys on each side of space bar for typing Polish characters,

The first pair is not terribly hard to achieve.

I know it's not but given the fact I don't like the sound of Model Fs, I prefer to keep it in original condition as a collectible item. Well not original maybe as it has been re-conditioned from 2 horrible keyboards out of which I made one amazing show piece and one that can only serve a parts donor - it has broken case and missing keycaps, but electronics (PCBs, controller, pivot plates/springs) are fine.

Actually out of all BS boards my favourite sounding one is very heavily used Model M from 1988, which feels a bit mushy when hardly bottomed our. It sounds slightly muffled, without any ringing or pinging, but not as clacky as Unicomp and obviously much much quieter - music to my ears.

I generally prefer the sound and feel of any Model F to any Model M. Beamspring is a whole other level. That plate looks awesome fohat!

@JBert

Thanks for the explanation, and you mentioned USB legacy mode, which needs to be set up in BIOS, is this legacy mode still in effect after Windows takes over the control of hardware?

@MrDuul
Try AT, you won't regret, although it's a little harder to get one nowadays.The feel of AT is more richer and vibrant than M.



This might be a little off-topic. Model F AT is perfect for me in the case of typing.

Firstly, it's balanced, the monitor, keyboard and me could be aligned. You can't keep an M at the aligned position without violating mouse space or awkwardly positioning the keyboard leftward.

Secondly，I do need the numpad and "arrow-insert-pageup/down " cluster to edite texts and spreadsheets efficiently, AT meets my need.

Thirdly, I need more space for my mouse and I don't need two sets of "arrow-insert-pageup/down; " AT eliminates the redundant set for me.

Fourthly, many instant-message apps use Ctrl+Enter to send out messages, Ctrl key and Enter key are in line on AT, at first you might not like the layout, but once you get used to it, it's convienent like hell man!

So I currently use At for all typing and SSK for gaming.

PS:
MX black fatigues me like hell, although it's extremely smooth; maybe the 5g discrapency does matter, and typing on it makes my input accuracy drop drastically.


This might be a little off-topic though.

fohat wrote:

czarek wrote:
I absolutely need 2 ALT GR keys on each side of space bar for typing Polish characters,

The first pair is not terribly hard to achieve.

Did you cut the barrel plate out of model m to do that? O-o I thought you could just slip 2 barrels in down there and call it a day.
Edit - nvm i'm an idiot..

To keep on topic I use a model f AT to game.. tho my buddies aren't fans of it when we all get in voice comms. Lol

I game with Topre without an Issue, just don't get fucked over by Razers Marketing bullshit... they are the worst kind of lying assholes out there on the market. There is no such thing as gaming keyboards, just keyboards. I found MX red to be very nice for FPS but they are also more prone to errors if you play RTS or MOBA.

You have to like it in the end. In the end, the keyboard will not limit you in any way, so screw all the "Gold Plated USB connector stupidity" and stick to what you like most

cookie wrote: I game with Topre without an Issue, just don't get fucked over by Razers Marketing bullshit... they are the worst kind of lying assholes out there on the market. There is no such thing as gaming keyboards, just keyboards. I found MX red to be very nice for FPS but they are also more prone to errors if you play RTS or MOBA.

You have to like it in the end. In the end, the keyboard will not limit you in any way, so screw all the "Gold Plated USB connector stupidity" and stick to what you like most

Topre is fine for gaming, but I'd recommend 55 g switches. My RealForce is way too light on the QWASZX cluster.

I am so used to Topre, I don't even have any alternatives right now
If I'd ever go back to MX I'd go with either Vintage Blacks or Reds.

I can game pretty decent on my Pro1 which basically have 55g domes due to stiffening over the years.

Yep fullsize (or tenkeyless) Topre is fine for gaming, I haven't had issue even with variable weighted (silenced) keyboard. I think that Topre's tactility is better at playing games than actually typing as at least me, when I play games I spam keys to the bottom anyways, and when you quickly press Topre full from top to bottom it gives very nice, distinct tactile response - when you do the same on Cherry MX Brown, it will feel like broken Red

As I said before, it's useless for typing as it doesn't help you figure out when the switch activates to prevent bottomming out, but for gaming (or typing heavily by using whole travel from top to hard bottom out), it kinda works.

Tried my Topre 55g for gaming... Pretty good, getting a 45g I think it will be better.