IBM Model F 122 "restored" and bolt-modded

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

14 Jun 2019, 21:50

Spoiler:
Wazrach wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:34
SneakyRobb wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:27
Wazrach wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:24


Because these fucking things never feel good after reassembling with new foam. Ever. I had no choice.
This is true. The F122 feels noticeably loose in the middle when you reassemble it with new foam with no screws. The FXT and FAT feel a lot crisper with new foam as they have much fewer rows and height to the whole module.
Even the XT, none of my foam replacements worked. The closest one was this relatively firm art foam (not the Michael's stuff everyone's banging on about), but the center row was noticeably mushier. It just never works, it's depressing.

in fact, the XT I tried to service recently failed miserably. i drilled holes through it to do a bolt mod as an experiment, with the hopes of removing them later once the plates have aligned. it is inconsistent and rubbish. I'll have to try again with the same 2mm neoprene I used in my F122.

Hi that sounds pretty unfortunate. Do you have an image of your foam? As well do you need to use clamps to get the tabs down far enough when you slide it together?

User avatar
Wazrach

14 Jun 2019, 21:56

SneakyRobb wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:50
Spoiler:
Wazrach wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:34
SneakyRobb wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:27


This is true. The F122 feels noticeably loose in the middle when you reassemble it with new foam with no screws. The FXT and FAT feel a lot crisper with new foam as they have much fewer rows and height to the whole module.
Even the XT, none of my foam replacements worked. The closest one was this relatively firm art foam (not the Michael's stuff everyone's banging on about), but the center row was noticeably mushier. It just never works, it's depressing.

in fact, the XT I tried to service recently failed miserably. i drilled holes through it to do a bolt mod as an experiment, with the hopes of removing them later once the plates have aligned. it is inconsistent and rubbish. I'll have to try again with the same 2mm neoprene I used in my F122.

Hi that sounds pretty unfortunate. Do you have an image of your foam? As well do you need to use clamps to get the tabs down far enough when you slide it together?
Clamps are absolutely necessary, but it's difficult to get anything close to the middle three tabs to compress the foam sufficiently. I have a nice neat mat cut out of 3mm foam for the F122, but I couldn't get it back together. Wasn't even close. The stuff I used is this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-NEOPRE ... 2749.l2649

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

14 Jun 2019, 23:18

Red_October wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 17:20

Why does one bolt-mod an F?

What does it do?
I created a guide for refurbishing and ANSI-modding a 122-key terminal F.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11102&p=241582&hili ... si#p241582

In the guide are shown half a dozen "bolts" (machine screws and nuts) but as I became more experienced I have concluded that 3 are enough: between Left Shift/CapsLock and left F6/F8, between main 5 and upper F5, and just right of Enter diagonally above left arrow.

For several restorations I have done that, and similar operations on ATs, and I have always been quite pleased with the results. Note that I am focused exclusively on feel and am not a freak over the original sound. Good feel is paramount, and that with attenuated sound is my ideal.

Red_October

14 Jun 2019, 23:32

fohat wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:18
Red_October wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 17:20

Why does one bolt-mod an F?

What does it do?
I created a guide for refurbishing and ANSI-modding a 122-key terminal F.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11102&p=241582&hili ... si#p241582

In the guide are shown half a dozen "bolts" (machine screws and nuts) but as I became more experienced I have concluded that 3 are enough: between Left Shift/CapsLock and left F6/F8, between main 5 and upper F5, and just right of Enter diagonally above left arrow.

For several restorations I have done that, and similar operations on ATs, and I have always been quite pleased with the results. Note that I am focused exclusively on feel and am not a freak over the original sound. Good feel is paramount, and that with attenuated sound is my ideal.
Interesting information my friend. What are the symptoms of failed foam? Apparently I've never met it before (I guess I'm lucky in that regard) as all my Fs have not given me any trouble of their own making, it's all been trouble with the converter, in one case it just fell apart because of how the pre-made Soarer's Converters hang everything off the USB socket and USB sockets themselves suck mightily, and the other it was my own ignorance of the fact that a Model F will simply not work correctly if it does not have its earth at the same potential as the PC's chassis earth. So a USB hub or cable which does not respect this will cause bizarre, spurious operation. The Soarer's Converter I built myself actually has an external earth lug, but I did not have to use it as I have cabling that respects the earth. Not all USB cables I've tested do.

User avatar
Wazrach

14 Jun 2019, 23:57

Red_October wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:32
fohat wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:18
Red_October wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 17:20

Why does one bolt-mod an F?

What does it do?
I created a guide for refurbishing and ANSI-modding a 122-key terminal F.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11102&p=241582&hili ... si#p241582

In the guide are shown half a dozen "bolts" (machine screws and nuts) but as I became more experienced I have concluded that 3 are enough: between Left Shift/CapsLock and left F6/F8, between main 5 and upper F5, and just right of Enter diagonally above left arrow.

For several restorations I have done that, and similar operations on ATs, and I have always been quite pleased with the results. Note that I am focused exclusively on feel and am not a freak over the original sound. Good feel is paramount, and that with attenuated sound is my ideal.
Interesting information my friend. What are the symptoms of failed foam? Apparently I've never met it before (I guess I'm lucky in that regard) as all my Fs have not given me any trouble of their own making, it's all been trouble with the converter, in one case it just fell apart because of how the pre-made Soarer's Converters hang everything off the USB socket and USB sockets themselves suck mightily, and the other it was my own ignorance of the fact that a Model F will simply not work correctly if it does not have its earth at the same potential as the PC's chassis earth. So a USB hub or cable which does not respect this will cause bizarre, spurious operation. The Soarer's Converter I built myself actually has an external earth lug, but I did not have to use it as I have cabling that respects the earth. Not all USB cables I've tested do.
Usually, it'll be the center row of keys that feels "spongier" than the rest. The click will be weaker and the bottom out sound will sound "thwackier", best way I can describe it. I've only had a problem with weak foam on UK Models F and that F122, as the UK models use the shitty, white skin-backed foam that always seems to degrade. Honestly, when it comes to foam, you really begin to appreciate how much simpler the Model M design is. I was considering doing a hybrid between a Model M and F 122, with an F PCB and flippers with an M backplate/barrel frame. I'd still like to do that, but I don't know if it would work yet.

As for the converter part, I can't really say much there. My knowledge is pretty basic, so I just get Orihalcon's Soarer's converters when I want to use my keyboards. I prefer the original cables anyway.

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

15 Jun 2019, 00:09

Wazrach wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:56
SneakyRobb wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:50
Spoiler:
Wazrach wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:34


Even the XT, none of my foam replacements worked. The closest one was this relatively firm art foam (not the Michael's stuff everyone's banging on about), but the center row was noticeably mushier. It just never works, it's depressing.

in fact, the XT I tried to service recently failed miserably. i drilled holes through it to do a bolt mod as an experiment, with the hopes of removing them later once the plates have aligned. it is inconsistent and rubbish. I'll have to try again with the same 2mm neoprene I used in my F122.

Hi that sounds pretty unfortunate. Do you have an image of your foam? As well do you need to use clamps to get the tabs down far enough when you slide it together?
Clamps are absolutely necessary, but it's difficult to get anything close to the middle three tabs to compress the foam sufficiently. I have a nice neat mat cut out of 3mm foam for the F122, but I couldn't get it back together. Wasn't even close. The stuff I used is this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-NEOPRE ... 2749.l2649
Hi, that is good. For a picture I mean do you have a photo of the foam that you cut for this purpose? Like the foam on the steel plate where we can see it before the barrels are inserted.

User avatar
Wazrach

15 Jun 2019, 00:27

Wazrach wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:57
Red_October wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:32
fohat wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:18


I created a guide for refurbishing and ANSI-modding a 122-key terminal F.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11102&p=241582&hili ... si#p241582

In the guide are shown half a dozen "bolts" (machine screws and nuts) but as I became more experienced I have concluded that 3 are enough: between Left Shift/CapsLock and left F6/F8, between main 5 and upper F5, and just right of Enter diagonally above left arrow.

For several restorations I have done that, and similar operations on ATs, and I have always been quite pleased with the results. Note that I am focused exclusively on feel and am not a freak over the original sound. Good feel is paramount, and that with attenuated sound is my ideal.
Interesting information my friend. What are the symptoms of failed foam? Apparently I've never met it before (I guess I'm lucky in that regard) as all my Fs have not given me any trouble of their own making, it's all been trouble with the converter, in one case it just fell apart because of how the pre-made Soarer's Converters hang everything off the USB socket and USB sockets themselves suck mightily, and the other it was my own ignorance of the fact that a Model F will simply not work correctly if it does not have its earth at the same potential as the PC's chassis earth. So a USB hub or cable which does not respect this will cause bizarre, spurious operation. The Soarer's Converter I built myself actually has an external earth lug, but I did not have to use it as I have cabling that respects the earth. Not all USB cables I've tested do.
Usually, it'll be the center row of keys that feels "spongier" than the rest. The click will be weaker and the bottom out sound will sound "thwackier", best way I can describe it. I've only had a problem with weak foam on UK Models F and that F122, as the UK models use the shitty, white skin-backed foam that always seems to degrade. Honestly, when it comes to foam, you really begin to appreciate how much simpler the Model M design is. I was considering doing a hybrid between a Model M and F 122, with an F PCB and flippers with an M backplate/barrel frame. I'd still like to do that, but I don't know if it would work yet.

As for the converter part, I can't really say much there. My knowledge is pretty basic, so I just get Orihalcon's Soarer's converters when I want to use my keyboards. I prefer the original cables anyway.
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adcdam

16 Jun 2019, 00:37

i have a one of these in great condition, im thinking of selling it or perhaps not, what is a suggested price in ebay?

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