Wiki Q and A

tactica—there's a blast from the past. (I didn't realise how terrible that Amiga page was — I can see the fanboy drooling as he wrote it. It wouldn't be quite so bad if it was at least properly illustrated.)

I envy anyone for whom photography is so easy and natural that merely uploading an image to MediaWiki is the difficult part! Such people would not have my huge backlog of switch pictures to upload/clean up/shoot.
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 08:32

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:tactica—there's a blast from the past. (I didn't realise how terrible that Amiga page was — I can see the fanboy drooling as he wrote it. It wouldn't be quite so bad if it was at least properly illustrated.)

I envy anyone for whom photography is so easy and natural that merely uploading an image to MediaWiki is the difficult part! Such people would not have my huge backlog of switch pictures to upload/clean up/shoot.

I assume you mean this: wiki/Commodore_Amiga

Basically there is no illustration. Lots of text, fanboy or not I cannot verify that information either right now. Considering how many Amiga's are still out there it should not be impossible to get some good pictures that we are allowed to use. I know some Amiga fanboys locally I'll see if they let me take some pictures although photography never comes "easy" to me.
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 08:44

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seebart wrote:I assume you mean this: wiki/Commodore_Amiga

Basically there is no illustration. Lots of text, fanboy or not I cannot verify that information either right now. Considering how many Amiga's are still out there it should not be impossible to get some good pictures that we are allowed to use. I know some Amiga fanboys locally I'll see if they let me take some pictures although photography never comes "easy" to me.

I happen to have every Amiga model except for the Amiga CD32 keyboard (still looking for one) so if we need sample pictures, I can help.
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 17:48

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snuci wrote:
seebart wrote:I assume you mean this: wiki/Commodore_Amiga

Basically there is no illustration. Lots of text, fanboy or not I cannot verify that information either right now. Considering how many Amiga's are still out there it should not be impossible to get some good pictures that we are allowed to use. I know some Amiga fanboys locally I'll see if they let me take some pictures although photography never comes "easy" to me.

I happen to have every Amiga model except for the Amiga CD32 keyboard (still looking for one) so if we need sample pictures, I can help.

Great thanks. No rush.
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 18:36

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Here's what I';ve already posted.

Amiga CDTV
Amiga 1000
Amiga 2000/2500

I am unable to do anything this weekend and nights are too dark so it might be a bit before I can take more pics. I'll see if I have any taken already. I definitely have not done a 500, 600 or 1200 yet.
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 19:58

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seebart wrote:I assume you mean this: wiki/Commodore_Amiga

Yes — tactica had made a change to it.
seebart wrote:Basically there is no illustration.

The images are on the pages for each individual model of computer. There are still numerous models and keyboard variants without photos at all, but there are also extensive photos on the model pages. The amount of variation is sufficiently great that I felt that each model of Amiga should have a dedicated page.
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 21:21

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:tactica—there's a blast from the past. (I didn't realise how terrible that Amiga page was — I can see the fanboy drooling as he wrote it. It wouldn't be quite so bad if it was at least properly illustrated.)

Well... Nobody is perfect :roll:

BTW, regarding this change of yours, you might want to edit infobox dswitch and friends and replace

Code: Select all
{{#if: {{{website|}}} | {{URL|{{{website}}}}} |  }}


with just

Code: Select all
{{#if: {{{website|}}} | {{{website}}} |  }}


That way you can show an arbitrary URL and still point anywhere you like, just like any regular external link works.

Code: Select all
website = [a_very_long_URL  my_nice_shorter_form]


I'd apply the change myself but I suppose it's only nice to ask for input first.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 04:24

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I always aim to make the templates do all the hard work. Ideally the URL template would have a means to trim the address down to some number of characters, but there are two problems: the relevant module in MediaWiki isn't enabled (and I'm not even sure what should be enabled now as string handling got complicated), and the URL template is so complicated that I can't even see where I'd add string truncation even if it were possible. Since there are no local variables, I assume I'd need to nest templates, so that the inner one would remove the protocol part of the string or whatever it does, and the outer one would check the length and truncate only the display portion.

Part of the objective for making the template do the work is to maintain consistency and allow global adjustments.

Another option is to split the parameter up, and have a "website link" parameter that lets you format it manually without needing to adjust every other page. Or, website and website caption, where without the caption it defaults to the URL.

That Greetech page is an exception because the URL was so absurdly long.

There is in fact another option still — there is a CSS facility to force text to break and wrap even if there are no natural wrap points, which I've used before. Applying that to the infobox styling would allow for no other changes, but long URLs would simply wrap around. It might need one or two other tweaks considering that it's being used in a table, but I've made a very similar change before.

That or we just punch Greetech in the face repeatedly until they sort their ghastly website out. They still refuse to separate out GT02 and GT04 properly!
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 08:28

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seebart wrote:I assume you mean this: wiki/Commodore_Amiga

Basically there is no illustration. Lots of text, fanboy or not I cannot verify that information either right now. Considering how many Amiga's are still out there it should not be impossible to get some good pictures that we are allowed to use. I know some Amiga fanboys locally I'll see if they let me take some pictures although photography never comes "easy" to me.

Yes, the lack of references on the first version of the Amiga page was my fault. I managed to lose my list of sources: mostly links to several forums where people were showing disassembled Amigas and refurbishing them. Each variation that I listed is one that I have seen a picture of.

I would not say that I'm fanboy. I used the Amiga back in '90s and I still have my A500 and A1200 in the basement -- it is not like I collect them and run them but that is fun to hear about sometime.
What I did on the page was basically an infodump. The fanboyish intro about how it was before its time yada yada was added later by someone else.
I do however find interesting details where the Amiga keyboard layout and way of use differ from the Windows style guide norm that reigns also on Linuxes today.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 09:31

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@Daniel

Up to you then, but I still think my solution is simpler and a lot less work :)

Besides, I'm not sure you can make Template:URL work as you want both in infoboxes *and* in Template:imagedesc, in fact the latter never worked IIRC. My vote still goes for replacing imagedesc and friends with UploadWizard anyway, even if it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 10:16

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Findecanor wrote:What I did on the page was basically an infodump. The fanboyish intro about how it was before its time yada yada was added later by someone else.

In fact I was assuming Daniel meant me when he mentioned fanboyism. You're right of course :(
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 10:18

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Findecanor wrote:
seebart wrote:I assume you mean this: wiki/Commodore_Amiga

Basically there is no illustration. Lots of text, fanboy or not I cannot verify that information either right now. Considering how many Amiga's are still out there it should not be impossible to get some good pictures that we are allowed to use. I know some Amiga fanboys locally I'll see if they let me take some pictures although photography never comes "easy" to me.

Yes, the lack of references on the first version of the Amiga page was my fault. I managed to lose my list of sources: mostly links to several forums where people were showing disassembled Amigas and refurbishing them. Each variation that I listed is one that I have seen a picture of.

I would not say that I'm fanboy. I used the Amiga back in '90s and I still have my A500 and A1200 in the basement -- it is not like I collect them and run them but that is fun to hear about sometime.
What I did on the page was basically an infodump. The fanboyish intro about how it was before its time yada yada was added later by someone else.
I do however find interesting details where the Amiga keyboard layout and way of use differ from the Windows style guide norm that reigns also on Linuxes today.

Well if this came across as some sort of critique I'm sorry it was not meant as such, I know you are one of the few people here who regularly works on the wiki. Thanks for your input, as you know very few wiki pages are really ever complete.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 17:27

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tactica wrote:@Daniel

Up to you then, but I still think my solution is simpler and a lot less work :)

Up to me to …? I'm not planning on changing anything, especially not for one absurd Greetech URL.
tactica wrote:Besides, I'm not sure you can make Template:URL work as you want both in infoboxes *and* in Template:imagedesc, in fact the latter never worked IIRC.

Template:Filedesc (and its alias, Imagedesc) doesn't use Template:URL anyway, so what doesn't work?

For the infoboxes, I would implement something like {{URL|{{{website}}}|50}} to set truncation at 50, which would only apply to that specific infobox template. (It's true that each infobox template would need adjusting separately.) This would have no effect on using Template:URL anywhere else. However, this requires understanding the complexities of making string processing available in MediaWiki.

Personally I think we need a proper wiki logo, to replace my silly interim logo.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 18:32

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Personally I think we need a proper wiki logo, to replace my silly interim logo.

Agreed. I'll be submitting some ideas for that...although I kind of still like your current effort. I hasn't been up that long if I recall.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 18:36

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Mine's … vague. But cheerful.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 19:18

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Template:Filedesc (and its alias, Imagedesc) doesn't use Template:URL anyway, so what doesn't work?

True, it doesn't. But whenever you try to embed the template to specify e.g. a source, the result is a load of wikitext in the Summary field and the url isn't converted to a working link. See for example this page.

Personally I think we need a proper wiki logo, to replace my silly interim logo.

Agreed... I do like your "black" theme though.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 22:07

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My "black" theme?

The Template:URL bug is just the = sign limitation. MediaWiki templates are an abomination.
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Unread post15 Nov 2017, 22:40

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:That Greetech page is an exception because the URL was so absurdly long.

Here's another one, there may be more...

wiki/Datacomp_DFK191
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Unread post19 Nov 2017, 15:18

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Don't add anything else to Category:Keyboards with Hi-Tek linear switches — that category should not exist.

The correct name is /Hi-Tek Hi(gh)?[- ]?Profile/ but I still have no answer from either D'Milo or Susan on how to correctly format that name, nor whether the successor was "Dovetail" or "Dovetail Series". D'Milo and Susan have written the High Profile name differently and I don't know which one is preferable — it was a retronym used to distinguish the old design from Series 725, and I can only guess that it encompassed dovetail too.

I'm holding off updating the Hi-Tek stuff until there are clearer details.
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Unread post20 Nov 2017, 22:42

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Yessir!
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Unread post21 Nov 2017, 00:22

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