refining a compact layout

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 08:12

gmjhowe wrote:You should move ~` to be right of shift where you have that blank key, then make the top right corner into Escape.

I use escape a lot throughout the day, it should have its own key.

have to check ISO layouts, I'm actually an ANSI man, even though I'd like an ansi layout with big return key

gmjhowe · 02 Mar 2013, 10:58

Yeah, the Mac ISO keyboard are kind of like a hybrid between ANSI and ISO. I don't want a layout too different to their usual layout so I can still easily use the built in keyboard on my MacBook. They get around the compact layout by mushing half height arrow keys in the bottom corner. Which isn't really possible with mechanical keys.

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 11:04

More fun with ISO:

ISO Mac

ISO 75% (this actually fits a Race case)

gmjhowe · 02 Mar 2013, 11:10

Nice selection, that ISO Mac is pretty much perfect for what I would want.

The 75% ISO is pretty nice, I know rodtang would love it.

What's your plan with these? You just playing around with layouts, or do you plan to make a pcb of your favourite?

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 11:19

gmjhowe wrote:What's your plan with these? You just playing around with layouts, or do you plan to make a pcb of your favourite?

I'm going to design plate, PCB and case. For me first, but if it turns out well, we can set up a GB.

7bit · 02 Mar 2013, 11:23

The space bar is still too wide!

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 11:29

7bit wrote:The space bar is still too wide!

it could be 5-units, but if I go in the sub 6u realm I gotta go DCS...

gmjhowe · 02 Mar 2013, 11:53

matt3o wrote:
gmjhowe wrote:What's your plan with these? You just playing around with layouts, or do you plan to make a pcb of your favourite?
I'm going to design plate, PCB and case. For me first, but if it turns out well, we can set up a GB.

Would it be rude for me to get in on some prototype action?

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 11:57

gmjhowe wrote:Would it be rude for me to get in on some prototype action?

no, it would be totally awesome!

gmjhowe · 02 Mar 2013, 13:20

Sweet, I plan to design a 'compact' case that is based on the 'ends' I designed for my dell keyboard, the idea being you bolt two end pieces onto the plate which allows you to show off the pcb and easily mod it without having to take it out the 'case'

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 13:49

gmjhowe wrote:Sweet, I plan to design a 'compact' case that is based on the 'ends' I designed for my dell keyboard, the idea being you bolt two end pieces onto the plate which allows you to show off the pcb and easily mod it without having to take it out the 'case'

that's a nice concept.

I was also toying with the idea of using the plate as case top but I have to check prices and feasibility.

Grond · 03 Mar 2013, 18:16

I also wouldn't mind something like this:

F-keyless with a cluster of 15 programmable keycaps on the right.

7bit · 03 Mar 2013, 19:00

What resolution does you monitor have?

Grond · 03 Mar 2013, 19:30

I can't believe you're ranting against my pictures even where they're not photographs!

Anyway it's 1280x800.

7bit · 03 Mar 2013, 20:04

So please scale it down to a normal size, otherwise your layout looks like it is for playing computer chess in a public park.

Grond · 03 Mar 2013, 20:46

There you go!

7bit · 03 Mar 2013, 22:04

This looks like a normal tenkeyless to me.

A bit small, BTW ...

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 14:08

I reviewed ISO enter key specs on SP documentation and ended up with what I think is a very nice layout

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 14:19

and these could be the ANSI counter parts

all at the same width (so only 1 case design needed)

gmjhowe · 04 Mar 2013, 15:06

matt3o, those are looking great. I would see myself mapping FN to one of the spare right hand keys, to reintroduce caps lock and ctrl back to there usual place. Obviously thats not a big issue.

Thats a strange shaped ISO enter key! Very nice find, I assume it is something that SP can produce?
Having said that, people could also use a 2unit enter key vertically if needs be.

I assume the PCB be made as such that it can be used as either ISO or ANSI?

I am loving the hybrid 60% / 75% design.
Maybe you should call it a 67.5%?

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 15:25

gmjhowe wrote:matt3o, those are looking great. I would see myself mapping FN to one of the spare right hand keys, to reintroduce caps lock and ctrl back to there usual place. Obviously thats not a big issue.

yeah key mapping is totally free. You could put FN in place of one of the super keys too. From an ergonomic standpoint I believe my layout is pretty solid.

gmjhowe wrote:Thats a strange shaped ISO enter key! Very nice find, I assume it is something that SP can produce?

If I read the DCS docs properly they have a 1.25 x 2 x 1 x 1 return key, that should be exactly the one pictured above. It's a very nice shape, perfect for compact layouts!

I'd like to have a PBT dye-sub'd set with all EU languages. The problem as always is the spacebar.

gmjhowe wrote:I assume the PCB be made as such that it can be used as either ISO or ANSI?

yes, it should be feasible. right shift could come in 1unit and 2 units 2 stems (so no changes are required on the PCB). The only problem to solve would be the return key. But it should work.

gmjhowe wrote:I am loving the hybrid 60% / 75% design.
Maybe you should call it a 67.5%?

I haven't seen this layout around. Don't know why, it seems pretty reasonable to me. Gotta find a name for it

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 15:57

looking at it closer I don't know if we can fit the 2 variants in just 1 PCB, in row 2 and 3 the shift between ISO and ANSI is just 0.25... have to make some tests

gmjhowe · 04 Mar 2013, 16:14

Aha yes, the ISO has slight smaller modifiers down the left hand side.

I thought that was a brilliant move to make ISO work, just completely didn't think in terms of the PCBs.
I think there would be enough interest to have two PCBs.

Though the ISO PCB could be made to convert to an ANSI with the same spacing, just with a 2u wide enter key.

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 16:29

the second ANSI test is basically an ISO with big return key. I use ANSI but I wouldn't mind using that layout, but I bet many would disagree.

Anyway the PCB is probably the cheapest part of the whole

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 16:32

hold on! we could mount the switches upside down!

so basically row2 and row3 for ANSI are straight, for ISO are upside down... mmmh it might work...

gmjhowe · 04 Mar 2013, 17:06

matt3o wrote:hold on! we could mount the switches upside down!

so basically row2 and row3 for ANSI are straight, for ISO are upside down... mmmh it might work...

Yes! That would work a treat.

You thinking of LED back lighting at all? Its not really a feature I am that fond of myself.

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 17:14

naaah, no back lit.

gmjhowe · 04 Mar 2013, 17:25

Do a 'backlit' option where by every order comes with a nice stable desk lamp.

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 17:36

I've found a place to have the plates done, what about the PCB? do you know any place in EU?

gmjhowe · 04 Mar 2013, 17:41

Through my local hackspace I have access to various people who get PCB's made all the time, both for personal use and professional in the from of products to sell.

It also means there may be some room to order prototype PCB's easily as part of a board with some of their PCB's.

If you want, I will ask around and get some options.

(also the option to ask people about plates too, I know a few guys with CNC mills that might prototype for us too)