refining a compact layout

matt3o · 28 Feb 2013, 18:16

I'm trying to design a compact layout . Rules are:

- standard staggering (as much as possible)
- FN to the bottom left
- arrow keys

This is the closest we can go to a standard layout

Smaller right side

Reduced left size

A bit too far

Without the additional right hand row (note /? key)

EDIT: added this option

ideas? suggestions? opinions?

7bit · 28 Feb 2013, 18:22

Your sequence of keyboards converges agaist a 5x14 matrix keyboard with a green CR key in row 3, 1 unit from the right end.

gmjhowe · 28 Feb 2013, 18:24

On the bottom row, I would reduce the space bar slightly, allowing you to move the arrow cluster left slightly, this means you can make the '?/' key normal size, and the shift bigger. Then you just have a small gap unused to the right of the right arrow.

matt3o · 28 Feb 2013, 18:30

7bit wrote:Your sequence of keyboards converges agaist a 5x14 matrix keyboard with a green CR key in row 3, 1 unit from the right end.

Don't know if I like a 1 unit CR... (if I understand what you mean) EDIT: no I didn't get it

gmjhowe wrote:On the bottom row, I would reduce the space bar slightly, allowing you to move the arrow cluster left slightly, this means you can make the '?/' key normal size, and the shift bigger. Then you just have a small gap unused to the right of the right arrow.

yes, I thought about that, but I can't live with that 0.25 gap to the right

anyway here it is... maybe I can live with it...

gmjhowe · 28 Feb 2013, 19:02

It just seems silly to me that some keys like '|\' and '?/' are made larger than 1unit (my main complaint about the standard ANSI layout)

matt3o · 28 Feb 2013, 19:04

gmjhowe wrote:It just seems silly to me that some keys like '|\' and '?/' are made larger than 1unit (my main complaint about the standard ANSI layout)

I agree, I cannot stand the \| ANSI key

let me try with ISO.

IvanIvanovich · 28 Feb 2013, 19:15

I wouldn't mind something like the second one, but with allowance to be able to use the J enter and 8x space found on the old typewriter dyesubs sets. Would be kind of nice to have a custom board to put those sets to use on.

: fg9843u.png (16.82 KiB) Viewed 11485 times

gmjhowe · 28 Feb 2013, 19:20

I had been playing around with the idea of using a 2unit vertically as an ISO enter.
Mainly because the ISO enter is a pain to get ahold of.

: Screen Shot 2013-02-28 at 18.18.22.png (57.64 KiB) Viewed 11480 times

matt3o · 28 Feb 2013, 19:21

this is one of the few ISOs I can think of

Findecanor · 28 Feb 2013, 20:59

IvanIvanovich wrote:I wouldn't mind something like the second one, but with allowance to be able to use the J enter and 8x space found on the old typewriter dyesubs sets. Would be kind of nice to have a custom board to put those sets to use on.

Yes, but the 1.75×2 J-shaped Enter keys are not very nice to type on because they are stabilized only in the vertical part. They bind if you press on the left side.

pasph · 01 Mar 2013, 00:34

Not the best but 60%

matt3o · 01 Mar 2013, 09:12

it's not bad pasph, but the staggering is off in the last alpha line and I wanted to try to keep the default staggering as much as possible.

Also I'm not sold about the right side FN key (but that could be moved in place of the win key).

matt3o · 01 Mar 2013, 17:00

This is the smallest ISO I could think of with default staggering

Grond · 01 Mar 2013, 17:07

Personally, I fear I'd hit UP instead of RIGHT SHIFT all the time!

matt3o · 01 Mar 2013, 17:14

Grond wrote:Personally, I fear I'd hit UP instead of RIGHT SHIFT all the time!

UP would be deep dished

suka · 01 Mar 2013, 17:16

Nice to see all these minimalistic approaches, but why does everybody insist on keeping the standard stagger? And the huge spacebar?

gmjhowe · 01 Mar 2013, 17:33

That latest design is actually really nice matt3o.

I am with suka though, thats a pretty big space bar for a compact layout.

I would make it 5u then make my mods bigger.

Also, being a Mac user, I would want three mods on either side also.

webwit · 01 Mar 2013, 17:40

Because of the same reasons people insist on qwerty and most innovation in keyboards and ergonomic keyboards fail in a bigger scope. Muscle memory, introducing a learning curve, and in fact because the keyboards you use elsewhere (work, laptop, etc.) use the standard. Note that I am a Colemak Datahand user who did invest and harvested, so I'm just stating the obvious reason without defending it.

matt3o · 01 Mar 2013, 17:42

gmjhowe wrote:That latest design is actually really nice matt3o.

I am with suka though, thats a pretty big space bar for a compact layout.

I would make it 5u then make my mods bigger.

Also, being a Mac user, I would want three mods on either side also.

stagger is important to me. so I'd like to keep it default.

size of spacebar and number/size of mods is pretty free I'd say. 6.25 and 7 are easier to find, that's all. I'll soon get 6u but 5u are DCS only I believe.

tlt · 01 Mar 2013, 19:24

matt3o wrote:This is the smallest ISO I could think of with default staggering

I don't like right shift that far to the right I need to reach for it which makes it easy to miss and hitting "up" instead.

matt3o · 01 Mar 2013, 20:21

the only ISO possible with standard staggering is this I believe

tlt · 01 Mar 2013, 20:40

I like that one the best. Maybe you could use a 6u spacebar and use a 1,25u AltGr key?

gmjhowe · 01 Mar 2013, 20:49

Being able to assign some of the right hand keys as media keys would be nice too.

I do like how compact the previous one is, especially with the symmetric gaps.

dirge · 01 Mar 2013, 21:23

matt3o wrote:the only ISO possible with standard staggering is this I believe

although on the right I'd have prt sc, pgup, pgdn I use those more.

I love that ISO enter in green. It's clearly the replacement for the red escape fashion.

Grond · 01 Mar 2013, 21:39

I also think this latest layout is the best, and it's good to have the four extra keys on the right – supposing they're programmable, they'll suit anyone.

pasph · 01 Mar 2013, 23:17

matt3o wrote:it's not bad pasph, but the staggering is off in the last alpha line and I wanted to try to keep the default staggering as much as possible.

Also I'm not sold about the right side FN key (but that could be moved in place of the win key).

Like this?

I really would like to try something like this

matt3o · 01 Mar 2013, 23:44

tit wrote:I like that one the best. Maybe you could use a 6u spacebar and use a 1,25u AltGr key?

Good idea!

Grond wrote:supposing they're programmable, they'll suit anyone.

dirge wrote:although on the right I'd have prt sc, pgup, pgdn I use those more.

Except for print screen I don't need any of those. DEL can be FN+BS. INS is pure evil. The idea is that you can put whatever extra key you want there.

dirge wrote:It's clearly the replacement for the red escape fashion.

DSA Retro style! (insert funky asian disco music here)

pasph wrote:Like this?
Spoiler:

like this

although I don't like the small BS and I'd merge BS and INS into a 2units 2stems key.

gmjhowe · 01 Mar 2013, 23:55

Hey now! Who said you could drop the ISO enter?

I like this best, especially if the FN key could be put else where and the fn key mapped to CMD.

matt3o · 02 Mar 2013, 00:04

No drop

I'm having both. I believe I'm going to pick this

and this

with some small changes (spacebar/mods)

gmjhowe · 02 Mar 2013, 01:21

You should move ~` to be right of shift where you have that blank key, then make the top right corner into Escape.

I use escape a lot throughout the day, it should have its own key.