deskthority

Thanks for responses. All the industrial cases that I picked up are officially spoken for at this point (two non DT friends/yahoos would like them when I told them what we were doing). For the 5 that requested it, I will modify when I do my own later this evening.

Wow, a couple of non-keyboard enthusiasts are really lucking into something special, that's for sure!

I have a heat gun as well. It's not real precise, but if you can let us know the approximate temperature and time you applied to loosen the logos, that would be helpful to me.

Techno Trousers wrote: ↑Wow, a couple of non-keyboard enthusiasts are really lucking into something special, that's for sure!
...
but if you can let us know the approximate temperature and time you applied to loosen the logos, that would be helpful to me.

They are both avid Model M fans, but more users than hobbyists. Calling us "enthusiasts" though is the equivalent of a RAGING chronic alcoholic saying they "drink socially"

You will need to be careful on the case with applied heat. PVC has a glass transition temperature (when plastics become "rubbery" and can gouge easily) at ~80°C (~175°F), which is low compared to things like ABS. If you don't have a probe, it's around the temperature something would be too hot to touch for 1/4 of a second. I would typically target 10°C south of glass transition as a max, but this sticker adhesive became pliable much quicker. I used just basic pointed tweezers to lift the sticker.

lot_lizard wrote:I would typically target 10°C south of glass transition as a max, but this sticker adhesive became pliable much quicker. I used just basic pointed tweezers to lift the sticker.

That's really helpful, thanks. I'll start with the low setting and only add more heat if necessary.

Thought those receiving them would appreciate the before and after shots below. I had a couple of extra WCass/Seebart badges, so added with industrial double sided tape (not Scotch tape).

@emdude, I tried the LED's in a dark room and didn't notice any bleed from the Unicomp monkey holes.

Two things I did that others might overlook:

• When Unicomp added the holes to the LED, they used some sort of rotary tool (think Rotozip) pressed from the back side. This causes ridges on the front around the perimeter of the hole. You will want to debur them (lightly sand, run with a knife, etc) if you want the LED overlay to be perfectly flat
• Our reproduced badges are made of PCB. The edges will have tooling evidence regardless of how good of a job you do. I took a simple permanent black marker and carefully ran around the side edge. Looks much better now (see last picture)

Looks great thanks! Leave the blue badge on mine OK?

seebart wrote: ↑Looks great thanks! Leave the blue badge on mine OK?

Copy

Seems Unicomp's shipping is not the total lame duck then after all. These cases must be dead stock like the ones webwit sold, I doubt they went back into production with these because they never do smart moves like that.

seebart wrote: ↑because they never do smart moves like that.

They have the patents and machinery for one of the best made keyboards ever. It boggles my mind that they seem incapable of taking advantage of it.

From what I understand they are quite "passive" in their whole business approach. Imagine if they came out with a new SSK, that would sell like crazy, people would be willing to pay $250 for it.

I am not sure if I'd personally pay that much for a Unicomp-quality SSK. I think the $100-150 price point would be more in line with what they charge for their other products and would be much more enticing anyway.

However, one of my biggest complaints with their keyboards is the inferior plastic they use for cases. If they spent more on PVC cases like the original Model Ms, then I can definitely see a $250 price tag being more justified.

But not just TKLs, if Unicomp made 60% layout keyboards, even if they were only membrane buckling spring ones, I think that would be very huge; basically an untapped market here for low-cost compact BS keyboards. That said, this is a pretty niche market. They might have considered the possibility but just decided not to pursue it.

But like you said, they're very "passive", I think Murium or someone here said something along the lines of Unicomp just being a bunch of old farts sitting on top of aging tooling, waiting for retirement or something. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Wish there could be some new blood to revitalize the company.

lot_lizard wrote: ↑ @emdude, I tried the LED's in a dark room and didn't notice any bleed from the Unicomp monkey holes.

Thanks for checking, lot_lizard! I am still waiting for my case; this is what I get for living on the west coast.

Yeah that's basically how I understood it also emdude. A shame really, they probably could mix up the mech market and make profits but if their managment wants to keep operations "low profile" then that's it, no game. I'd love to see some pics of that old IBM / Lexmark tooling, that's gotta have some value too.

It would also be interesting to know what happened with tooling in Mexico and UK. I guess they would have it intentionally destroyed in one way or another when taking over operations in Kentucky.

Or was it more like an assembly line for parts made in the US?

That would not suprise me at all if they had it destroyed, we know how large companies have their own insane internal rules & regualtions. Just imagine how many patents IBM alone holds.

I don't think they intentionally destroyed the UK/ Mexico tooling when Unicomp took over operations in Kentucky, because
a) apparently Unicomp couldn't afford or didn't want all tooling in Kentucky, since AFAIK Unicomp has no original SSK tooling, but the Kentucky plant manufactured SSKs (this probably applies to Model Fs, too).
b) the UK plant always belonged to IBM, nothing Lexmark could really influence that much.
c) to get those toolings intentionally destroyed, Unicomp would have had to pay some imense exclusitivity deal, that would have better been invested into aquiring the SSK (and Model F) tooling. Otherwise IBM and Lexmark would have been better of offering them to someone else and make probably more than the scrap value from them if they didn't want to store them away somewhere. This could even include a small split on every sold Vendor X made Model M.

I still hope they're gathering dust in some old warehouse in Armonk in large wooden boxes. Indiana Jones style.

True, IBM may have them stored somewhere, or at least parts of it. This is the same old Greenock plant footage I reposted recently, you can get an idea of how huge a production line would be.

daedalus wrote: ↑dw_junon from Geekhack acquired and uploaded this video (quite a crazy story about how he got his hands on it) of an IBM demonstration of some of their industrial robots. It so happens that from about a minute and a half in, the video shows how IBM used the robots to automate the manufacture of Model F keyboards in their Greenock plant in Scotland. It's very interesting to see how these things were assembled in the factory.

Well, they didn't need to destroy it in a sense to send it scrap heap. I would imagine that they could repurpose it for some other stuff, although at that point IBM stopped producing printers as well, and I don't know how big their PC business was by then. In any case, it was the 90s and there was no such thing as vintage PCs and vintage PC accessories, so the exclusivity deal was not something out of the question. I only speculate, but most of Unicomp's job was supplying existing customers with professional level equipment, of which SSKs where a miniscule part. No one would buy a smaller keyboard for the same amunt of money back then. And it didn't even have LED lights! There was no (and still isn't) mass market for mechanical keyboards ten times the price of a rubber dome (even if it was 100 times better). And it shows in the way Unicomp operates to this day.

@seebart thanks for the video, I can't wait to see it.

random rant: What is it with all the embedded youtube videos that can't be expanded to full-screen? Is it an intentionally made as opt-in just for the people to go to youtube site and register a page view? If that's the case, I'm never opening an embedded youtube video in a new tab again.

That's right, and who would have speculated back then that mechanical keyboards would spark enthusiasm in the future. No one. In the 1990's vintage computer hardware was considered garbage.

I don't know what's the deal is with the embedded videos.

True, but some stuff like case moulds can't really be repurposed. Well, you could plant flowers in them or something, but that doesn't sound very sane to me. And SSK/Model F tooling would probably still be the smarter choice over an exclusitivity deal so they could cater to a wider scope of professional customers. It would allow them to offer those keyboards to the customers that wanted them.

I absolutely love how the robotic arms and the rest of the equipment have the same kind of badges as the stuff they are making. Black badges are there on the robotic arms, but I guess it was too early for industrial cases.

And did anyone catch what the keyboards manufactured where? Those looked like XT PCBs, but the keys being pushed into mylar earlier didn't look to me like they were in XT layout, with those 2+3 columns on the right side. Or am I looking at everything wrong?

That one PCB right at the beginning looks like an XT to me but I can't tell for sure, the footage is like a back to the future trip. I probably shouldn't spam lot_lizard's thread with stuff like that.

seebart wrote: ↑That one PCB right at the beginning looks like an XT to me but I can't tell for sure, the footage is like a back to the future trip. I probably shouldn't spam lot_lizard's thread with stuff like that.

I loved it... it's a great little video. I like one-off tangents that tip toe around the primary topic at hand (why my meetings are less productive than they should be ). This had value. Appreciate you posting. We are dawdling in the realm of "waiting on parts right now" anyway.

I did speak with our foam friends, and we are going to produce a single die for both the full size and SSK, and then I will trim down as needed. I am still experimenting with their engineers about materials that could be used to maximize our approach (hold barrels well, deaden sound, insulate plate contact, etc). It is a fun conversation with them as they are starting to geek out a little about it. In the end, we own the die for future use (ie... phase 2, whatever). So new runs will be pennies per sheet.

Side note, I WANT that Series 1 console beamspring from your video. I have never seen one before. The lower right corner square badge and key layout is gorgeous. Almost looks like a HAL photoshop

That was a great video. I like how they're promoting the robot assembly, but we care more about the keyboards they are producing.

I found it interesting that since they were manufacturing XT keyboards (the narrator said "keyboards for the IBM Personal Computer"), the keys would have been one piece construction. But they are unlabeled when put in the mylar sheet. So there must have been a step when the entire set of keys were due sub labeled at once. I wish we could have seen that!

lot_lizard wrote: ↑Side note, I WANT that Series 1 console beamspring from your video. I have never seen one before. The lower right corner square badge and key layout is gorgeous. Almost looks like a HAL photoshop

Who wouldn't want that, I've never seen one of those here. snuci will be the one who finds one I can tell you that right now. Looks awesome even in this lousy pic:

seebart wrote: ↑Looks awesome even in thIs lousy pic:

Agreed... Though I wouldn't call the pic lousy... It's the best example of an 80s chick knowing how to handle 8 inches. Sorry... couldn't resist.

lot_lizard wrote: ↑

seebart wrote: ↑Looks awesome even in thIs lousy pic:

Agreed... Though I wouldn't call the pic lousy... It's the best example of an 80s chick knowing how to handle 8 inches. Sorry... couldn't resist.

Haha very good, that's what I want to hear! Obviously that chick knows what she's doing.

So my industrial case arrived today. As I'm sure it will be for everyone, there were no case screws included. Is there any chance these could be ordered in bulk along with the other fasteners? If not I can probably find the appropriate size at my local home improvement store.

Techno Trousers wrote: ↑So my industrial case arrived today. As I'm sure it will be for everyone, there were no case screws included. Is there any chance these could be ordered in bulk along with the other fasteners? If not I can probably find the appropriate size at my local home improvement store.

Actually... That little screw is a very odd size (security by obscurity kind of thing). You might have luck, but I suspect you would end up settling on something close, but not quite right. We will probably end up reaching out to our friend clickykeyboard. His prices are very reasonable, and he probably has a good chance of having the volume we need. If not, we'll make something happen. We always have Cindy's magic powers as well on our side.


http://clickykeyboards.com/product/repl ... keyboards/

EDIT: plus we will have these Cindy barrel boards. I am not sure the ratios yet, but I believe the F122 shares a common screw? Would have to double check.

F122 has a different screw than M122. I will need to check which one is the same as regular M, but I would put my money on M122.

Edit:
Yep. F122 has a longer, wider and more bolt-like screw. And both F122 and M122 have only three screws.

alh84001 wrote: ↑
F122 has a longer, wider and more bolt-like screw. And both F122 and M122 have only three screws.

F-122 cases have threaded "nuts" embedded in the plastic to receive regular machine screws.
M screws simply screw into the plastic and are really more like wood screws.