deskthority

Ander wrote: ↑

Sigmoid> Dishwasher machine soap is super agressive. It's designed to get grime off without rubbing...

Exactly! It's actually acidic.

Nah, dishwasher soap is basic...

I guess it depends what kind of dishwasher soap you're using. But generally it's pretty harmless stuff.

It depends on the type. Dishwasher soap for machine use is generally pH 12 or above. Dish soap for hand use is about neutral, so rather harmless...

When it comes to the items I'm helping to sell: patience will be rewarded.

Khers wrote: ↑
Dishwasher soap for machine use is generally pH 12 or above. Dish soap for hand use is about neutral,

I like powdered laundry detergent (Charlie's Natural (US) - great on clothes, too) with a little shot of "oxi-" (arrives under various names) but rinse well using a colander or wire basket! And, because, for the laundry, it needs to rinse away quickly.

Then lay a T-shirt out on the bed and "sling" the water out of each cap before I toss it down. This takes 2-3 minutes and means that it caps are almost dry immediately and there is no opportunity for dried residue anywhere.

Any advice on how to preserve the identification sticker?
I just got 2 model m with the stickers in bad shape and if possible i would like to salvage them.

Gatlank wrote: ↑Any advice on how to preserve the identification sticker?
I just got 2 model m with the stickers in bad shape and if possible i would like to salvage them.

"Preserve" and "salvage" are different.

I remove stickers with naptha (old-fashioned cigarette lighter fluid) but this might discolor the paper.

When I clean a Model M, I mask the sticker with a plastic shield and masking tape. Properly done, this will endure long enough for me to wash the piece with soap and water. Then I clean the sticker and surround carefully by hand.

A sticker that is peeling up can usually be re-secured using a carefully-cut rectangle of wide tape. It is hard to find tape wider than the label, but you may find it the same width. Ideal would be about 2mm-3mm all around.

Got the mat... unfortunately this thing is ridiculously electric. If I ever build a Van De Graaf generator, this is a prime candidate for the belt. I'll have to coat it with an static dissipative agent.

On the bright side, this thing will probably last longer than the keyboard itself.

fohat wrote: ↑ "Preserve" and "salvage" are different.

I remove stickers with naptha (old-fashioned cigarette lighter fluid) but this might discolor the paper.

When I clean a Model M, I mask the sticker with a plastic shield and masking tape. Properly done, this will endure long enough for me to wash the piece with soap and water. Then I clean the sticker and surround carefully by hand.

A sticker that is peeling up can usually be re-secured using a carefully-cut rectangle of wide tape. It is hard to find tape wider than the label, but you may find it the same width. Ideal would be about 2mm-3mm all around.

Thanks. While i can find information on how to clean covers, keycaps, etc. i have nothing regarding the label on the back.

Neat what you are doing! I still need an XT...

But in order to clean it all I just clean it under the sink and if you hand wash the keys they will look AMAZING afterward.

Don't know if it'll be any use, but there was a useful thread about the foam matting and possible replacements here. I had to replace mine and used some 3mm neoprene, but that was probably too thick and made reassembly, er, fun. I made a printable template for the XT layout that I found useful (it's attached to the foam thread) and punched out the holes with a punch set. Some application of clamps and a hammer did get it back together and it all worked fine, which was a relief.

Hey,

I re-assembled the keyboard. Yea I guess I should have gotten the open cell, softer foam mat, as it was pretty hard to put it together, I had to use 5 small (35lbs) DeWalt clamps, a block of wood and a rubber mallet. Anyway, at least I didn't have to force anything, and the spacebar was a lot easier too than I feared.

I had difficulty re-installing a few keycaps, it would seem that the spring didn't settle in its proper place, and the key didn't click... My bets are on that the flipper was in a "pressed down" state at all times. After a few retries, shaking the keyboard and poking at the spring with a small screwdriver, all the keys are clicking.

So now comes the part of getting Soarer's on a Teensy and installing it inside the case.

Getting there...

Sigmoid wrote: ↑Getting there...

Awesome!!

Looks like you are living the dream buddy! For some reason I want an XT or bigfoot... No desire for an AT though

On the contrary: if someone wants to get rid of an AT please send me a PM.

XMIT wrote: ↑On the contrary: if someone wants to get rid of an AT please send me a PM.

The reason why I don't want one is because whenever I see that huge enter key it is such a huge turnoff.

Redmaus wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑On the contrary: if someone wants to get rid of an AT please send me a PM.

The reason why I don't want one is because whenever I see that huge enter key it is such a huge turnoff.

That's fixable.

I hate to cross link but: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48288.0

See http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/bm-a ... t9488.html.

XMIT wrote: ↑

Redmaus wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑On the contrary: if someone wants to get rid of an AT please send me a PM.

The reason why I don't want one is because whenever I see that huge enter key it is such a huge turnoff.

That's fixable.

I hate to cross link but: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48288.0

See http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/bm-a ... t9488.html.

I know yeah, but I also just don't like the look of the keyboard. I don't why the XT board looks better to me. Weird.

Hm... yea, the XT is definitely more exotic.

As for the AT keyboards, has anyone done an ISO mod on it?

Sigmoid wrote: ↑Hm... yea, the XT is definitely more exotic.

Why in the world did I read eRotic ?

GuilleAcoustic wrote: ↑

Sigmoid wrote: ↑Hm... yea, the XT is definitely more exotic.

Why in the world did I read eRotic ?

Actually I read it like that too

Things aren't looking very good unfortunately... The keyboard isn't working with Soarer's converter, and it doesn't look very good on a scope... Seems to be acting weird.

It's quite possible that the electronics are fried on the controller board. :/ Are there any resources online for debugging and fixing these things? What about the availability of the chips?

Sigmoid wrote: ↑Things aren't looking very good unfortunately... The keyboard isn't working with Soarer's converter, and it doesn't look very good on a scope... Seems to be acting weird.

It's quite possible that the electronics are fried on the controller board. :/ Are there any resources online for debugging and fixing these things? What about the availability of the chips?

You have rebooted your computer beforehand right? And there are no other soarer converted keyboards plugged in at the same time?

Sigmoid wrote: ↑Things aren't looking very good unfortunately... The keyboard isn't working with Soarer's converter, and it doesn't look very good on a scope... Seems to be acting weird.

It's quite possible that the electronics are fried on the controller board. :/ Are there any resources online for debugging and fixing these things? What about the availability of the chips?

Are you sure that the cabling is correct ?
My XT works like a dream

Yep, I triple checked it...

It seems like it's not registering keypresses - it's the capacitive sensing part that is off. After reading up on the XT protocol I connected it up to the scope again, and I can see pretty proper XT protocol messages, the data line is the data line, the clock like is the clock line, only it doesn't correspond to activity on the keyboard AT ALL, but seems to change based on whim and where my hands are.

(XT protocol: http://kbdbabel.sourceforge.net/doc/kbd ... s2_adb.pdf)

Sometime it stops, sometime it starts, sometimes when I press a key the data line changes state, but more often it doesn't... Similarly, on the computer the best I got out of it was s flurry of random characters upon touching the ground plane, which sometime lasted long, sometimes not...

(Thinking about it, I may have been had. It was listed on eBay by someone who claimed to have started cleaning and restoring it, but then "realized he didn't have the tools to test it"... Well either that, or he realized it was borked. :/ F* me.)

You didn't let the wires touch on the soldering right?

Redmaus wrote: ↑You didn't let the wires touch on the soldering right?

The Teensy is soldered correctly.. and I snooped the keyboard without the Teensy on the scope, feeding it from my lab supply, and it def didn't look any good in itself either.

...anyway, I remember seeing some topic somewhere about designing a new capacitive board based on the XT. Could someone point me to it? There might be people who actually understand how this thing works and how to debug it.

Doing things depending on hand position sounds like faulty grounding.
If you open the keyboard again, I think you can test the PCB bare before closing it back up.

chzel wrote: ↑Doing things depending on hand position sounds like faulty grounding.
If you open the keyboard again, I think you can test the PCB bare before closing it back up.

Yep, thanks for that tip, I was saving that for the last as putting it together was a pain... Anyway, the bare board works a treat, which makes me super happy as I don't need to worry about debugging an old logic board with unobtainium chips on it... but now the question is, what did I mess up in assembling it?

Is the keyboard in the case when it's acting up? Are you sure there is no debris or anything out of the ordinary touching the PCB? Is your foam mat really safe for capacitative use?

I've read a post once about someone testing the keyboard on his lap (without the case), contact with his legs was enough to freak out the original controller.