Need help with Tipro

Tarkoon · 13 Apr 2012, 19:34

Hi,
today I got three Tipro Keyboards each consisting of a TM-KMQ-128A module (QWERTZ+3x16), a TM-KMX-032A module (8x4) and a cardreader. The cable is connected to the 128A and splits up into a PS/2 and a RS232 part.
I connected the PS/2 to my PC and tried to find the keyboard with the ChangeMe tool, but it just doesn't find the keyboard.
Where do I do something wrong?
It is my first Tipro and I really hope to find some help from the experienced guys here!
Thanks in advance!

EDIT: The TIPRO PDFs say I did it correct...
http://www.tipro.si/download/FREE_GSi_3_2.pdf
http://www.tipro.si/download/FREEcont_GSi_3_1.pdf

hoggy · 13 Apr 2012, 19:42

Those guides look amazing. Invites you to mess around with the board.

I'm going steal the layout design at some point.

RC-1140 · 13 Apr 2012, 20:00

I'm sorry I can't really help you with this matter, but does this mean you really have one of the original Tipro RS232 cables? Would you mind measuring it and providing an pinout? I've never found it, and don't want to buy an original one. (How much would that be anyway?) I hope that programming under 64bit Systems is possible with RS232. btw, I assume you use an 32 Bit Windows? Otherwise that is the reason. Programming an Tipro keyboard using PS/2 isn't supported on 64bit Operating Systems.

Minskleip · 13 Apr 2012, 20:03

- Are you sure you used the right port/cable
- Do you use a 32 bit os?

Icarium · 13 Apr 2012, 20:25

Yeah, I'm with Minskleip you probably need an older Windows. I just installed 32bit XP and it worked fine.

Tarkoon · 14 Apr 2012, 01:17

That could be the problem - I use the 64big version of Windows 7...
Could it work with a virtual box with win7 or win xp 32bit?

RC-1140 · 14 Apr 2012, 01:24

This is definitely the problem. Tipro even says on their Website, that PS/2 is not supported under 64bit Systems. RS232 is though, so this might be the way to go. An USB/RS232 adaptor should work for this as well. Virtualbox won't work I'm afraid, as it doesn't forward the raw data, so the commands for programming will be dropped. PS/2 Converters and Notebook sockets won't work either. Programming with Wine under Linux doesn't work as well, the same with ReactOS. The only way seems to be to use a native 32bit Windows or RS232. And this is why I'm so interested in this cable...

Tarkoon · 14 Apr 2012, 02:38

All three boards have these cables. I'll post photos tomorrow.

Tarkoon · 14 Apr 2012, 13:57

I didn't have much time today, but here is a photo of one of the Tipros with the Y cable with serial and PS/2 connector and the cleaned but still unsorted caps of all three boards.
http://tarkoon.tyrael.de/pictures/tipro.jpg
If I find a tool somewhere to measure which pin on the keyboard side is connected to which one on the serial side I will tell you the result.

Minskleip · 14 Apr 2012, 16:22

Cool, you've got the good layout - I recommend trying symmetrical stagger if you haven't tried before. It's brilliant!

Tarkoon · 14 Apr 2012, 17:58

What is 'the good' and 'the bad' layout?

Minskleip · 14 Apr 2012, 18:51

The bad is the regular one, and the good is the one where row 2 and 3 (from the bottom) is .25 units more to the right. Look here at how a symmetric stagger layout can look on these Tipros: http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t1948.html

RC-1140 · 14 Apr 2012, 20:26

Ah, so this is an interesting way of placing the keys. I got one of these symmetric staggered one as well, but the keycaps were placed in the original layout. I'm still looking for fitting keycaps. The original keycaps are some of the worst I've ever had. Currently I have only the Alpha block replaced by some thin PBT Lasered caps.

Minskleip · 14 Apr 2012, 22:09

Round 4

Get some POS kits et. al.

RC-1140 · 14 Apr 2012, 22:24

Well, I wouldn't want to spend this much on ABS caps. What I would like would be some used sphericals or some PBT caps. But I don't use the Tipro much, so I don't want to spend much money on it. The pinout of the RS232 would be cool, so I can program it more easily. I hate it when I have to go to the computer of my mother only to reprogram one key.

Tarkoon · 15 Apr 2012, 17:36

Hmm, so I would have to buy a serial port PCI card or better a USB to serial adapter. But I heard that these often make problems...
What would you recommend? Are there any good adapters?

7bit · 15 Apr 2012, 23:22

Tarkoon wrote:Hi,
today I got three Tipro Keyboards each consisting of a TM-KMQ-128A module (QWERTZ+3x16), a TM-KMX-032A module (8x4) and a cardreader. The cable is connected to the 128A and splits up into a PS/2 and a RS232 part.
I connected the PS/2 to my PC and tried to find the keyboard with the ChangeMe tool, but it just doesn't find the keyboard.

I think you need a different cable when it is not connected to the RS232 port.

Another reason: Windows should be as old as possible. The older the better. Windows 7 is not a good choice.

Do a re-boot with the keyboard connected.

Look into your ChangeMe software, if there is the wrong option set (USB instead of PS/2).

Tarkoon wrote:I didn't have much time today, but here is a photo of one of the Tipros with the Y cable with serial and PS/2 connector and the cleaned but still unsorted caps of all three boards.
http://tarkoon.tyrael.de/pictures/tipro.jpg
If I find a tool somewhere to measure which pin on the keyboard side is connected to which one on the serial side I will tell you the result.

Nice find!
It's the same as my first one.

How much did you pay?

Minskleip wrote:Cool, you've got the good layout - I recommend trying symmetrical stagger if you haven't tried before. It's brilliant!

Symmetry FTW!

RC-1140 · 16 Apr 2012, 00:01

I read some user manuals about Tipros, and in there it was said, that these cables can be used to connect the board to PS/2 only as well. Also Programming under Windows 7 64bit is supposed to work using RS232. RS232 is only used to program the board, the power supply and the original keyboard functions are always using PS/2 (at least without additional drivers. Some special purpose hardware uses RS232 for the keyboard functions as well, but in this case you have to buy an external power supply for the PS/2 port). And only PS/2 programming doesn't work in 64bit environments. (at least Tipro says so) I don't know too much about USB/RS232 adaptors, but I never encountered problems with cheap ones. In the most5cases you simply have to assign an unused COM number somewhere between COM1 and COM6. The lower the better in most cases. (You can assign COM numbers in the Windows Device Manager) Some older programs have trouble to discover devices with an higher number. And then you should select the RS232 and not the USB option in the ChangeMe software. This should do it.

Tarkoon · 16 Apr 2012, 12:39

The settings in ChangeMe are all ok, it seems just to be the problem with PS/2 and Win7/64...
Of course I rebooted with the keyboard plugged in etc.

What I really love about these boards is that they are full modular, so you can change the position of each keyboard segment, add one, leave one away, whatever you like.
I think mine will end without cardreader and the 8x4 segment on the left!

How much would have been ok to pay for three of these boards? ^^

Here are two photos of one of the three boards:

(click for higher res)

(click for higher res)

If someone is interested, I am going to give away two of these boards.

EDIT: Just ordered a USB to RS232 adapter, so programming can start in a few days!

7bit · 16 Apr 2012, 21:26

Tarkoon wrote:The settings in ChangeMe are all ok, it seems just to be the problem with PS/2 and Win7/64...
Of course I rebooted with the keyboard plugged in etc.

What I really love about these boards is that they are full modular, so you can change the position of each keyboard segment, add one, leave one away, whatever you like.
I think mine will end without cardreader and the 8x4 segment on the left!

How much would have been ok to pay for three of these boards? ^^

Here are two photos of one of the three boards:

(click for higher res)

(click for higher res)

If someone is interested, I am going to give away two of these boards.

EDIT: Just ordered a USB to RS232 adapter, so programming can start in a few days!

I'm interested!!!!!

richie · 16 Apr 2012, 22:46

me too I'm interested!

Minskleip · 16 Apr 2012, 22:49

Are you selling the 8x4 and cardreader modules you say? I'm interested in a 8x4 module.

off · 17 Apr 2012, 04:59

Interested! in programmable symmetrical stagger

Though, mins/7b have brought (a lot) more to the community; so I'd say them before me.
edit: 7b actually has/had/sold them? Screw that, INTERESTED!

Tarkoon · 17 Apr 2012, 07:44

Because I have only one left end part and one right end part for each keyboard, I could only give away the 4x8s without these - they belong to the main section.
Also these keyboards work with a bus system with only one controller per keyboard combination. So you would also need another controller PCB to plug it into the 4x8. They ard prepared for that - it's simple plug&play.

Icarium · 17 Apr 2012, 08:27

Important warning: The damn Tipros are seriously 2KRO. Any ideas about programming layers? Don't even try!!

Minskleip · 17 Apr 2012, 09:36

Tarkoon:

That's ok

CeeSA · 17 Apr 2012, 10:25

Icarium wrote:Important warning: The damn Tipros are seriously 2KRO. Any ideas about programming layers? Don't even try!!

i can't comprehend this.

anything you could proof this thesis?
which keyboard model? which conection?

W+A+S+D+Shit+Space no problem with a 128 qwery Free Series.

i also use a 8x8 Mid Series for playing Shooter w/o any KRO Problem.

Tarkoon · 17 Apr 2012, 10:28

CeeSA wrote:W+A+S+D+Shit+Space no problem with a 128 qwery Free Series

I would recommend NOT to try that!!!
Your finger would stink after that...

Icarium · 17 Apr 2012, 10:31

Uh..sure I can make a quick video for you tonight...

I want to say it doesn't have diodes so it can't be anything but 2KRO but that would depend on the matrix. It's still true for any matrix worthy of the name, though. I don't know. I'm not an expert but I will make a video for you.

CeeSA · 17 Apr 2012, 10:39

i only keep this in mind until tonight:
"I'm not an expert ...."

no diodes no *KRO is not true, proof that also...
See my post, i already proof the opposite

still open:
your Model
your connection