Question about the Switches from Razer Blackwidow

hello
i readed Review, espacially
Switches


This keyboard uses plate mounted Cherry MX Blue switches.

Now, Razer has been claiming that they "Cherry Picked" the switches used in this keyboard, but wouldn't divulge what their criteria was. So I took it upon myself to find out what the difference was between these switches and every other Cherry MX board that I own, if there even was one.

Now, remember when I said how I played with the arrow keys through the box? When doing that, the switches felt lighter than those on my Filco, which surprised me. When Cherry Blues are brand new they're usually slightly stiffer than usual, as it takes a few days for them to break in. Of course, as soon as I took it out of the packaging and put it on my desk, it was back to being what I expected.

So I tested it with the Rip-O-Meter just to be sure, and it was identical to the Filco.

That being said, the sound was quite different. Well the clicky sound of the switches themselves was the same, that's not what I'm talking about. But see, the Filco likes to make a lot of other noise - even the slightest keycap movement translates to a ton of rattling. The Razer board is a lot better in this regard, but I doubt it has anything to do with the switches - the casing and keycaps have a much greater affect on the noise than just picking the best switches on a standard deviation curve, and as you'll see later in the review, their designs do just that.

So either I'm completely missing something here, or the whole "Cherry Picking" thing they're doing isn't very effective.

my englisch isnt that good (im german), and i think that the guy said the switches are not cherry switches but rather "cherry like" switches , a bit modified. is that so? or are these the typical normal cherry mx blues? (pics recommended)

and if i dont like the switches, can i easily remove it? i know there are 2 types to mount the switches on mechanical boards, but what is the easy way? is that plate mounted like in this case?
Circlepit

Unread post02 Feb 2012, 17:53

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
Well Razer is saying that they are "Cherry Picking" the switches for their boards.
I think what they want to say with that is that they pick only the best switches and test them before they install them etc.

they are still normal cherry mx blue, pretty sure.
byFd
User avatar

Unread post02 Feb 2012, 18:12

User avatar
X
byFd
 
Posts: 110
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 00:25
Location: Germany
 
That was the point that confused me, what they mean with "cherry picking"?
and to my 2nd question "and if i dont like the switches, can i easily remove it? i know there are 2 types to mount the switches on mechanical boards, but what is the easy way? is that plate mounted like in this case?"
Circlepit

Unread post02 Feb 2012, 20:54

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
sorry i always forget which one is easily changeable pcb or plate mounted :D
wait for someone qualified xD
byFd
User avatar

Unread post02 Feb 2012, 21:36

User avatar
X
byFd
 
Posts: 110
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 00:25
Location: Germany
 
PCB mounted is the easy to swap switches one, with plate mounted you have to go and unsolder the switches.
Eagle1337

Unread post02 Feb 2012, 22:33

X
Eagle1337
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 31 Jan 2012, 07:21
Main keyboard: BlackWidow
Main mouse: Deathadder
Favorite switch: unknown
 
Circlepit wrote:That was the point that confused me, what they mean with "cherry picking"?

to cherry-pick = sorgfältig das Beste heraussuchen (in German one would say "Rosinen" instead of "Kirschen").
kbdfr
User avatar

Unread post03 Feb 2012, 07:47

User avatar
X
kbdfr
 
Posts: 2163
Joined: 24 Mar 2011, 15:06
Location: Berlin, Germany
Main keyboard: Tipro MID-QM-128A + two Tipro matrix modules
Main mouse: Contour Rollermouse Pro
Favorite switch: Cherry black
Club member: 0010
 
thanks, so they use the normal cherry blues?
For unsoldering, can i use a normal soldering bolt or is a special (maybe micro like for the chips) soldering bolt recommended?
Circlepit

Unread post03 Feb 2012, 15:23

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
They are without a doubt identical to the normal Cherry switches. I confirmed this when unsoldering. They probably feel slightly different because the plate and PCB construction is different from the one on the Filco.

You can use almost any medium-small sized soldering iron to unsolder MX switches. However, on the Black Widow it is a bit more annoying than on other keyboards, as the Black Widow uses a double sided PCB, which can be a bit tricky to unsolder and/or require slightly more heat.
sixty
User avatar
Gasbag Guru

Unread post05 Feb 2012, 11:38

User avatar
X
sixty
Gasbag Guru
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 14:47
Main keyboard: DKSaver
Main mouse: Razer Krait
Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
Club member: 0060
 
 
Permanently buying all types of rare Cherry Corp. keyboards. PM me.
i found a picture and yes they use orignal cherry switches,b ut why are they the other way round? is this normal on keyboards? and many buyers complain that the razer backlight is different on each key, this one reason why they sell it. (look at the Customer Reviews on amazon)

here the picture
http://pics.computerbase.de/3/3/1/6/9/38.jpg

and generally about cherry switches, its normal that they have the place for the diod, because looking for a cherry g80... because of blacks and i want to make it blacklight if its possible.
Circlepit

Unread post06 Feb 2012, 18:24

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
They work both ways rotated 180 degree, feeling can be slightly different. They likely done that for leds. My 6G has switches in both orientations, likely for easier wiring of matrix.
Ekaros
User avatar

Unread post06 Feb 2012, 18:59

User avatar
X
Ekaros
 
Posts: 553
Joined: 04 Mar 2011, 15:26
Location: Finland,
Main keyboard: FILCO MAJESTOUCH 105 MX Brown SW/FI
Main mouse: Razer
Favorite switch: MX Clear
Club member: 0017
 
Hey guys, you think this looks like a new keyboard?
The guy wants to sell me the baors as new, but he gets it in a competition, so he dont has the package. I think this isnt that true

Image
Circlepit

Unread post10 Feb 2012, 19:33

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
Looks slightly used, new, but not nib.
NOMiS
User avatar

Unread post11 Feb 2012, 18:32

User avatar
X
NOMiS
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 26 Mar 2011, 04:56
Main keyboard: KBC Poker (red)
Main mouse: SS Xai
Favorite switch: Linear
 
 
Steelseries Xai
Poker X KBC (Red)
If price not near new I would say it's good deal. They don't wear out too fast afterall...
Ekaros
User avatar

Unread post11 Feb 2012, 18:34

User avatar
X
Ekaros
 
Posts: 553
Joined: 04 Mar 2011, 15:26
Location: Finland,
Main keyboard: FILCO MAJESTOUCH 105 MX Brown SW/FI
Main mouse: Razer
Favorite switch: MX Clear
Club member: 0017
 
this article is from ebay, and the guy writes that this one is NEW, and he won this keyboard in a competiion. Nice story. its about 20€ ( like 25$) cheaper from a new one. Should i buy it? Looks it really that new, or does it look more used? how you can see it if its new/used? (keycaps?....)
Circlepit

Unread post11 Feb 2012, 22:47

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
personally i wouldn't but it for 20€ cheaper without original box, but that's just me i guess :D
byFd
User avatar

Unread post11 Feb 2012, 23:26

User avatar
X
byFd
 
Posts: 110
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 00:25
Location: Germany
 
The problem is, idont know how "old" the board is. if you guys are sure that this is not new like the seller said, then it must be cheaper than 20€ to the new one. You really sure this is not new (for me new is used only 1 month or less)

Other question, what keyboard is better: K90, G-Unit, Razer? (i know there are better keyboards, but i need the makros on the left side)
Circlepit

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 12:44

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
so he said he don't has the box because he won it in a competition? that makes no sense?
sounds a bit shady for me.
byFd
User avatar

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 17:24

User avatar
X
byFd
 
Posts: 110
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 00:25
Location: Germany
 
same for me.
Circlepit

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 18:13

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
Is it worth it 20€ cheaper?
Circlepit

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 18:14

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
Well, it is just marketing. When they anounced the BW they said that they had developed a new switch from the ground up for 5 years or something like that.

The BW has more or less confirmed my suspicions about Razer, they are more about marketing then selling good gear.
Swede

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 18:38

X
Swede
 
Posts: 271
Joined: 20 Mar 2011, 12:57
Location: Sweden
Main keyboard: KBC Poker
Main mouse: Mionix Naos
Favorite switch: Cherry Red
 
but that isnt razer, thats a guy from ebay who say he wons this board, thats why he hasnt the packaging. its a nice sotry because he has a "reason" that he hasnt the packaging and he could sell it as new, but i think its just a lie, to get more money. sure you get more if you say its new rather than sell it used. My problem now is, i cant really say how old the board is, fi its only a month used i would buy it 20€ cheaper, but it could be used more then a year, so i ask you , how this board looks like.
Circlepit

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 18:58

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
It is likely impossible to determine its newness just from that picture alone.

Personally I don't find his story that suspicious.These kinds of giveaways do happen a lot, especially with gaming events.

That beeing said he could of course be lying.You could try to minimize chance by inquiring about the competition:
Ask the seller what event he participated in and if there is any online documentation.

·If he doesn't even bother to reply I would assume lies.
·If there is, check its recency.How long did it take him to decide selling it?

Did he really not touch it during that time period? Unlikely.

The real question is: How much does the keyboard beeing 100% new and unused mean to you? What risks are involved and how much money are you willing to spend to avoid them?

I would argue that objectively there likely is little to no physical difference between slightly used and completely unused.
Personally I am able and willing to just spend 20$ more and completely sidestep the question..

ask yourself
val
User avatar

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 21:14

User avatar
X
val
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 10 Feb 2012, 17:08
Main keyboard: QSENN DT-35
Main mouse: LOGITECH G100
Favorite switch: ? (wants to try topre)
 
well there are of course a lot of hardware prizes in gaming tournaments. but i never heard that you get them without a box...
byFd
User avatar

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 21:27

User avatar
X
byFd
 
Posts: 110
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 00:25
Location: Germany
 
this is true..
val
User avatar

Unread post12 Feb 2012, 21:29

User avatar
X
val
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 10 Feb 2012, 17:08
Main keyboard: QSENN DT-35
Main mouse: LOGITECH G100
Favorite switch: ? (wants to try topre)
 
So i asked him, he wons it LAST YEAR at the ESWC in Paris. He send me that 3 days after my mail. hmm, i dont know if there were some giveaways. some french people here? :D
But Razer
what you mean with
·If there is, check its recency.How long did it take him to decide selling it?

Yes these are all my questions, i know there isnt a big difference between slightly used and completely unused, but a difference between using it a whole year and new, he said he never touch it because he has a g15 logitech and this his main keyboard.

yes i think i spend more money for a new one, beacuse this one coulb be used a year.
Circlepit

Unread post13 Feb 2012, 20:28

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
Basically: how much time has passed since the event.Since it has been at least a year, definitely don't get it.
val
User avatar

Unread post14 Feb 2012, 22:09

User avatar
X
val
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 10 Feb 2012, 17:08
Main keyboard: QSENN DT-35
Main mouse: LOGITECH G100
Favorite switch: ? (wants to try topre)
 
kbdfr wrote:
Circlepit wrote:That was the point that confused me, what they mean with "cherry picking"?

to cherry-pick = sorgfältig das Beste heraussuchen (in German one would say "Rosinen" instead of "Kirschen").


Welcome to USA Style Marketing courtesy of Jason at Razer Marketing!

2. What key switch is used in the Razer BlackWidow? To dispel all confusion once and for all – we use the Cherry Blues – and in our design process, we’ve got a pretty strict guideline on sorting of each switch, so it’s not just the Cherry Blues but those with a certain characteristic/tolerance guideline. So…they’re cherry-picked. I can’t go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.
ripster

Unread post14 Feb 2012, 22:17

X
ripster
 
Posts: 4080
Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 08:04
Location: Ugly American
Main keyboard: As Long As It is Helvetica
Main mouse: Mickey
Favorite switch: Wanna Switch? Well, I Certainly Did!
 
So they use modded cherry blues? :O
Circlepit

Unread post15 Feb 2012, 18:31

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
According to the posts in this thread..: No!
sixty wrote:They are without a doubt identical to the normal Cherry switches. I confirmed this when unsoldering. They probably feel slightly different because the plate and PCB construction is different from the one on the Filco.
val
User avatar

Unread post16 Feb 2012, 00:49

User avatar
X
val
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 10 Feb 2012, 17:08
Main keyboard: QSENN DT-35
Main mouse: LOGITECH G100
Favorite switch: ? (wants to try topre)
 
But look @ the post from ripster
Circlepit

Unread post16 Feb 2012, 17:14

X
Circlepit
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 18:14
Location: Germany
Main keyboard: Billigteil
Main mouse: Razer Deathadder
 
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Laser, mr_peck, raatmarien, Sogou [bot] and 25 guests