question on Focus 5001/9000 keyboards

ginahoy · 06 May 2013, 22:18

I've been using Focus FK-5000 and 5001 keyboards since my first desktop circa 1992 (Ares Microcomputer, anyone remember them?). I love the mechanical key switches and the left-hand function keys, but I simply cannot live without the integrated calculator. I use it constantly in my work. I've tried stand-alone calculators but they just don't have the right key size, spacing, or touch. Slow me down tremendously.

My original kb lasted 15 years, but I've purchased four since then. The calculators always fail, even on one I purchased new (old stock). It's not the switches that fail but something in the logic or electronics, apparently related to age rather than use. The most common failure mode I've noticed is multiple digits stop responding in calculator mode, but they resume normal operation in keyboard mode. I can usually futz with it to get them working again, often just by switching between calc and keyboard mode. On my current kb, usually 3 numbers at a time that act up (but not the same 3). In recent weeks, it's the decimal point that stops working.

I'm constantly on the lookout on eBay for a nice or new Focus 5000/5001. I just came across an FK-9000, a model I was unfamiliar with. Based on images posted in this (deskthority) wiki and in the ebay listing, the 9000 appears identical to several of the KB's I've owned, including my current FK-5001 (e.g., locking KB/Calc switch and integral status LED's). I've also had two FK-5001's like the 5001 pictured in your wiki. Sorry for rambling...

I have a couple of questions about the 9000. Does anyone know what the difference is between the 9000 and the 5001 with integral status LED's and locking Calc key? Also, does the 9000 use the CR-2032 battery? All of the 5000/5001 keyboards I've owned use the 2032, but I saw a comment in another forum that the 9000 uses a special battery (http://bit.ly/16OtJRB).

Thanks for indulging my questions!

Daniel Beardsmore · 08 May 2013, 01:37

If you ever do get a 9000 I'd love to see some detailed shots of the latching num/calc switch (in Trent's 8000 it's some sort of heretofore unknown Futaba variant but I've never succeeded in getting a better photo from him — no idea what the 9000 used).

There's still a lot of mystery with Focus boards. The 9000 photos … now that's a weird story in itself (where the eBay buyer and seller were the same person, but the buyer and seller were not the same person … either way, the guy I was talking to shipped it off to a friend and I never heard from him after that.) Most people have the 2001.

Focus keyboards used many different switch brands and models. The original 2001 was blue complicated Alps, followed by white complicated Alps (and later on, Alps clones); the 2002 was white complicated Alps only. The 5001 is only known to have white Alps, but we're still discovering Focus variants. In fact, I just came across a Futaba FK-8000 variant now, and allegedly tactile — guessing that the switches are just broken? (Tactile Futaba is new to me.)

As such, if you're used to white Alps and the 9000 comes with Alps clones (quite possible) you may be in for a disappointment, depending on personal preference (still waiting for my white Alps FK-2002 to arrive — I've never used white Alps before). You should get a photo of one of the switches, large and well lit enough to identify the switch by its shape (quite hard with black plastic on a black plate if the photo is from a phone camera).

REVENGE · 08 May 2013, 05:20

Battery issues plague these older Focus keyboards with integrated calculators. Try replacing the battery and also check the soldering in general.

ginahoy · 08 May 2013, 06:49

To Revenge... I don't use battery since I only use calculator when computer is on. The reason I asked about the battery is because the 9000 eBay listing says calculator needs a battery and thus was not tested. I sent seller an email offering to send a 2032 battery since I would only be interested in his keyboard if calculator operation is verified. I haven't heard back yet.

I think I'll to pass on the 9000. Too many risks / variables.

To Daniel, all of my 5001 variants (some were marked 5000) have had white posts on the switches. Presumably this is what you mean by white ALPS?

As for the locking ALPS switch, I have locking KB/CAL key on my current 5001 model as well as on another 5001 with failing calculator. I recall that switch is what failed on my original Ares. It's pretty delicate, but that one lasted 15 years! I'll upload an image later tonight. It has a cross pattern cut in the top of the post, and there's a tiny vertical lever on the side of the post. When the key is pressed, the lever catches on a post or tab beneath the flange. No doubt Focus redesigned the 5001 to eliminate this switch.

After posting here yesterday, I disassembled my current keyboard and re-seated the main calculator connector, hoping that might help. So far, no glitches. In addition, I tested another one of my 5001's to verify it's failure mode. As it turns out, it wasn't inoperative calculator digits but some sort of intermittent electrical fault that occasionally causes my computer to lock up and sound a loud beep (same tone as POST beep except continuous). Interestingly, unplugging the keyboard doesn't stop the beep. I had forgotten about that failure mode. Very annoying.

I'm holding on to that kb for parts. In fact, if re-seating the connector doesn't do the trick on my current kb, I will try to scavenge the calculator sub-board from the one that causes the beep. It will be interesting to see if the calculator boards are the same, since that keyboard is like the 5001 pictured on the wiki here (e.g., it doesn't have latching KB/CAL key).

ginahoy · 08 May 2013, 09:18

Here are some pics of my 5001 showing integral LED switch (scroll lock) and latching KB/CAL key.

REVENGE · 08 May 2013, 09:32

Whoa, the calculator is Futaba? I always assumed they were ALPS...

Edit: Sorry, that was silly. I realize it's only the on/off button...

ginahoy · 08 May 2013, 11:02

Yeah, the rest of the keys appear to be standard white ALPS, except for the 3 with integral LEDs. Those have yellow posts, as shown in the image above.

I'm still not convinced that the 9000 for sale on eBay isn't a 5001. Except for the logo, it appears identical to my current 5001. Too bad the seller didn't post a shot of the nameplate underneath. But the 9000 page in the deskthority wiki shows what appears to be a 5001, but with a 9000 nameplate. This seems bizarre since presumably the 9000 was produced after the 5001, and Focus had already eliminated the latching key in the 5001 model.

Hey, here's a photo I found showing the battery for the 9000.

http://jpegbay.com/gallery/001026201-14.html#14

It's definitely not a CR 2032, and the battery leads are soldered to the board. Mine has a molded connector. Also, I noticed the left hand function keys are marked "PF" instead of "F". Maybe Focus private labeled this model for Key Pro (whoever that is) while the 5000 was still in production and just assigned a different model number.

Daniel Beardsmore · 08 May 2013, 23:32

Those are some great photos of the Futaba switch. Could I trouble you for one of the inside of the keycap showing their weirdo mount?

Relevant wiki page: [wiki]Futaba lock[/wiki]

I can't tell from your photos whether the yellow switch is Alps or a clone as there's not enough light; see the following page for a recognition chart showing the difference (real on the left, clone on the right):

[wiki]Simplified Alps Type II[/wiki]

(Ignore the rest of the page — I need to rewrite it in light of recent knowledge)

Daniel Beardsmore · 09 May 2013, 02:18

Oh, as for 5001 vs 9000 — the 5001 has an LED panel at the top, and the 9000 has LEDs integrated into the keycaps.

Compare the 3001 (from the original 1001/2001/3001 lineup) and 8000 here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8187.30

ginahoy · 09 May 2013, 05:58

Daniel, the yellow switch with integral LED is indeed ALPS (imprinted on top of switch housing).

Below are pics of the futaba locking keycap you requested.

Regarding your last comment, your information regard 5001 is incorrect. As I said in my previous posts, my current keyboard (the one imaged above) is indeed a 5001, and it obviously does not have the LED panel. It's an early model 5001. More pics below.

I also have two later model 5001's (both of which have failed) that do have the LED panel. Those keyboards match the images shown on the 5001 wiki page. Instead of the Futaba locking switch to turn on the calculator, they have separate KB Lock and CAL Lock (momentary switches) with a 4th LED (in the LED panel) that lights in calculator mode.

mintberryminuscrunch · 09 May 2013, 19:06

http://www.ebay.de/itm/PC-Tastatur-ESCO ... 1104851442

Daniel Beardsmore · 10 May 2013, 01:21

Many thanks — I'll reference this topic from the wiki.

It's funny: Alps made their own latching switch: [wiki]Alps CM lock[/wiki], which takes normal keycaps. In the case of the Focus boards, for the sake of one switch, Focus used a switch with a different pin arrangement and a totally non-standard keycap mount!

From what you're saying, and from what I've seen, there have been significant changes to the 5001. That figures, as there have been significant changes to the 2001, including multiple switches: blue complicated Alps SKCM, white complicated ALPS SKCM, counterfeit or extremely badly made Alps, some sort of weird counterfeit blue Alps, Hua-Jie AK-CN2 or equivalent, some older Xiang Min/Hue Jie style switch, and the later-style Omrons.

The 8000 even went all-Futaba.

I don't know whether Focus are even in business, as their sales and info addresses have been reporting "550 Mailbox quota exceeded" since December or earlier. I was hoping to pick their brains over the Alps clone switches.

ginahoy · 10 May 2013, 02:20

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Focus ...addresses have been reporting "550 Mailbox quota exceeded" since December or earlier.

Wow. I just assumed Focus was long gone, years ago. Does anyone know how recently they manufactured clicky keyboards? And are the good clicky switches (ALPS, Futaba) still being manufactured? Seems like there's still a healthy demand.

Daniel Beardsmore · 10 May 2013, 10:19

The Focus FK-9200 (FCC reg 1996) was rubber dome. I'm not aware of any later models of any kind — I guess they made nothing of interest to us? Looks like they stopped making Alps clone boards towards the end of the 90s, which is when mechanical keyboards were winding up. Mechanical keyboards have made a comeback in the last few years, but the wide range of switches once available, has dwindled.

All the switches still in production that I am aware of, I catalogued here:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Pr ... n_switches

Genuine Alps is long since gone — only a number of Alps clones remain (including the brand new [wiki]Matias switch[/wiki] range). Futaba, also long gone — all attempts to contact them for information has been summarily ignored.

REVENGE · 20 May 2013, 12:56

FYI, some random searches led me to here, and made me recall your thread.