Keyboards for Alps Keycaps Dye Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS?

Hypersphere · 03 Jan 2015, 01:42

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Judging by the state of the keycaps that came with my Tactile Pro for PC, I'm not enthused. I'd rather we get Tai-Hao caps as at least Tai-Hao can do legends properly most of the time, and since it's an ABS vs ABS choice, Matias don't win there either (where they could be selling stylish dark grey PBT with dye-sub legends or PBT blanks). Tai-Hao's double-shot legends won't stain either.

Yes, based in part on my own preference for blank mods and in part on your assessment of the legends on Matias keycaps, I am going for black blank mods from Matias and sourcing the alphanumeric dye-sub keycaps from vintage boards. Of course, I would prefer PBT mods as well, but these are harder to find, especially given all the different types of stabilizers for Alps-mount keycaps.

Daniel Beardsmore · 03 Jan 2015, 04:37

I tell a lie — there are two exceptions. The AEK II had Mitsumi switches that took Alps keycaps. There was also a Zenith keyboard with the mini Mitsumis that took Alps keycaps:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/zkb-2.html

Both seem to have been exceptions though.

Hypersphere · 06 Jan 2015, 16:58

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑I tell a lie — there are two exceptions. The AEK II had Mitsumi switches that took Alps keycaps. There was also a Zenith keyboard with the mini Mitsumis that took Alps keycaps:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/zkb-2.html

Both seem to have been exceptions though.

Thanks for this, and thanks for all the extremely useful information you (and others) have provided. Your input helped a great deal in my search for good keycaps for my Matias-switch keyboards. I have managed to find an IBM 5140 and Acer 6311 for reasonable prices on eBay, and I expect these to arrive this week!

jacobolus · 06 Jan 2015, 22:09

If someone can find one of those Zenith boards with Alps-mount mini Mitsumis, I’ll trade a green Alps + dyesub XT-ish layout Zenith board for it. Or would be happy to buy a handful of loose switches.

Hypersphere · 07 Jan 2015, 00:08

jacobolus wrote: ↑If someone can find one of those Zenith boards with Alps-mount mini Mitsumis, I’ll trade a green Alps + dyesub XT-ish layout Zenith board for it. Or would be happy to buy a handful of loose switches.

I'll keep an eye open for such a board and post any sightings.

Hypersphere · 07 Jan 2015, 18:37

002 wrote: ↑Some of the nicest Alps caps I've come across are the PBT dye-sub ones on the IBM PC Convertible. The SIIG Minitouch can also have dye-sub caps if you're lucky.
<snip>

Thanks for reinforcing this recommendation, which I believe I first heard from jacobolus. I agree. Thus far, after sampling a number of vintage Alps boards, including keyboards in some "portable" computers, the dye-sub PBT caps on the keyboard from the IBM 5140 are the best I have encountered. I am typing on them now, on my V60 Matias Click keyboard. The caps are beautiful, and they have the great feel of PBT that I have come to enjoy on my RF 87ub 55b and HHKB Pro 2.

Another plus for the IBM convertible PC keycaps is that the stems fit the Matias switches without causing any binding whatsoever. Binding has been an issue with some Alps-mount keycaps, which may appear to fit just fine, but the keycap stem can be just a tad too large, causing the switch stem to bulge slightly and bind in the switch housing (at least, this is the theory).

amospalla · 17 Jan 2015, 13:42

Is there any known Acer model with PBT keycaps? I've got a rebranded Foxen 6312-kw, and an Acer 6312-ta and neither of them has PBT keycaps.

amospalla · 17 Jan 2015, 14:12

Oh, found a Oriental Tech OK-100, but those seems to be double shot, so no PBT neither.

Hypersphere · 17 Jan 2015, 15:11

I think that Acer keyboards with model numbers 6311 and 6312 have dye-sub PBT keycaps. It appears that keyboards with other model numbers, including suffixes, do not have dye-sub PBT caps.

amospalla · 17 Jan 2015, 15:30

I see, thank you Hypersphere. I will look for plain 6312 Acer, not "-ta" or "-tw" version.

amospalla · 18 Jan 2015, 22:16

Any idea about Acer 6512 ? Found one plain 6512. It seems NIB so it had no occasion to become yellow if has ABS caps.

Nuum · 18 Jan 2015, 22:30

I did a quick search and most pictures I found of an Acer 6512 showed pad-printing and/or yellowing. Looking at our wiki is always a good start!

Hypersphere · 18 Jan 2015, 22:34

amospalla wrote: ↑Any idea about Acer 6512 ? Found one plain 6512. It seems NIB so it had no occasion to become yellow if has ABS caps.

Don't know. However, even some pad-printed caps on vintage boards did a rather good job of printing. And if print durability means more to you than the surface texture or feel of the keycaps, there are a number of Alps-mount keyboards that had excellent double-shot ABS keycaps.

amospalla · 18 Jan 2015, 22:49

Mh... I really want PBT keycaps for my Matias keyboard.

I am interested in the feel/sound of PBT, in fact I would not care about faded or scratched legends.

I will have to keep searching. Thank you guys.

Hypersphere · 18 Jan 2015, 23:27

In my searching thus far, I have found that the sure-fire sources for dye-sub PBT Alps-mount keycaps that would fit Matias switches include the following:

Apple Extended Keyboard.
IBM 5140 convertible computer.
Wang 725-3770 keyboard.

The above are fine for the alpha and number keys. Although the AEK keycaps work, they are a different profile from that of the other two keyboards and I don't like them as well.

It is more of a challenge to find modifiers and spacebars. However, I am content using Matias ABS keycaps for the modifiers and spacebar. Here is a pic of my V60MTS-C with blank black mods and spacebar from Matias and white alphanumeric keys from an IBM 5140:

: V60MTS1.jpg (960.27 KiB) Viewed 7532 times

ideus · 19 Jan 2015, 02:49

Muirium wrote: ↑I like the "Standard" layout, of course…

Both of those will be quite challenging to source from classic caps, though. Not impossible, but challenging. Fortunately, short right Shift was quite common, once upon a time. Often the \ key went to the right of there, thanks to its natural place being taken up by our old ungainly friend Big Ass Return!

Yeah, it's tricky.

Why your left shift is shorter than 2.25u?

jacobolus · 19 Jan 2015, 09:31

ideus wrote: ↑Why your left shift is shorter than 2.25u?

When that set was made, Signature Plastics had no tooling for SA profile 2.25 or 2.75u keycaps, so the shift and return pictured there are both 2u instead.

amospalla · 28 Jan 2015, 21:06

amospalla wrote: ↑Any idea about Acer 6512 ? Found one plain 6512. It seems NIB so it had no occasion to become yellow if has ABS caps.

Found one plain Acer 6512, which obviously is ABS:

gogusrl · 28 Jan 2015, 21:48

The thick pbt dyesubs from a Zenith Z-150 are my pride and joy. Planing on buying a matias v60 just so I can use these keycaps.

Hypersphere · 29 Jan 2015, 01:36

Is the Zenith 150 the one that has the oddly sized right square bracket key?

gogusrl · 29 Jan 2015, 07:46

Yeah, that's the one =>

jacobolus · 29 Jan 2015, 10:27

Pretty sure the Zenith boards with white labels are all doubleshot ABS. It’s the black label ones that have dyesubs.

gogusrl · 29 Jan 2015, 10:30

The picture I posted is the actual board I pulled the keycaps from. You got them wrong, it's the other way around. White label = green alps + dyesubs, black label = yellow alps + doubleshots.

http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/zenit ... t9094.html

Findecanor · 29 Jan 2015, 11:12

Hypersphere wrote: ↑I think that Acer keyboards with model numbers 6311 and 6312 have dye-sub PBT keycaps. It appears that keyboards with other model numbers, including suffixes, do not have dye-sub PBT caps.

Yep. I can confirm that with my Acer 6312-K (wedge case). I tested with acetone inside one and it smeared.

The SysRq legend is front-printed. Maybe that is one way to tell ...

jacobolus · 29 Jan 2015, 12:18

gogusrl wrote: ↑The picture I posted is the actual board I pulled the keycaps from. You got them wrong, it's the other way around. White label = green alps + dyesubs, black label = yellow alps + doubleshots.

Huh, they must have changed to the white label earlier than I thought. The ones I have seen were:

black label + dyesubs + green alps
white label + doubleshots + green alps
white label + doubleshots + yellow alps

Also, your picture has awful white balance.

Here’s an example of white label + obvious ABS caps: http://www.recycledgoods.com/zenith-xt- ... -keys.html

Xonar · 01 Feb 2015, 08:48

I love the look of the IBM 5140 caps. I'm probably going to pick up a V60MTS soon, and I definitely want the 5140 caps for alphanumerics, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do about modifiers just yet. I'm thinking maybe Dell AT101, but that would clash with the IBM caps a bit.

I'd really like it if there was a group buy for Alps-mount modifiers that matched the 5140 caps.

Hypersphere · 01 Feb 2015, 15:53

@Xonar: Yes, the IBM 5140 caps are really nice and work well on the V60MTS for the alphanumeric keys. As mentioned above, I use blank black modifiers and a black spacebar from Matias; although they are ABS, I don't really notice.

The mods from a Dell AT101W look okay as well, but the stems might be a tad too large, as I found that they caused some binding on some keys. I remedied this by putting O-rings on the switches. As expected, the Matias caps fit perfectly with no binding, and I no longer use O-rings on any of the keys.

amospalla · 01 Feb 2015, 17:25

Does it exist any way to buy new ALPS pbt keycaps?

Hypersphere · 01 Feb 2015, 22:45

amospalla wrote: ↑Does it exist any way to buy new ALPS pbt keycaps?

Choices for new Alps/Matias keycaps are relatively few. Signature Plastics is running a Group Buy for an ABS doubleshot set called "Delta Blues". For those who participated in the Group Buy for the Infinity 60 keyboard kit on Massdrop, there was an option to get DSA profile blank PBT keycaps. Likewise,the current Group Buy for the Matias 60 is offering PBT keycaps for the bottom row, and depending on the number of sales, the keyboard will be increasingly filled with PBT keycaps. Currently, you can buy blank or lettered white or black ABS keycaps from Matias by sending an email to barb@matias.ca. The keycap listings have still not appeared on their website, however. Otherwise, you can find ABS, doubleshot ABS, and dye-sub PBT Alps-mount keycaps on various vintage keyboards as described in this thread.

amospalla · 02 Feb 2015, 01:00

With this said I end searching for PBT keycaps. I'll have to wait for Matias to sell them.