deskthority

Hypersphere wrote: ↑

Lunatique wrote: ↑

Muirium wrote: ↑The renders are our good (and stormed off in a huff) friend Emmer Forever's:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/a-p ... t6977.html

If you read the thread (especially the bits where people quoted him) you'll see how, um, opinionated he was. Sure enough, most of us would be quite happy with something more like the original SSK than his particular layout. But the overall vision is sound. He did some nice work before blowing his top!

I think we're talking about two different mockups/renders. The one I was referring to is this one:

Spoiler:

Personally, I'd be happy with a standard TKL layout, but I wish Unicomp would trim those thick borders around the frame, since they take up precious desk space and serve no function. We have plenty of keyboard designs today that don't even have any borders around the frame and they are plenty sturdy.

If Unicomp were actually going to build an SSK, I really hope they wouldn't go for the version shown above. They would do well simply to use IBM's original SSK design. And if they really wanted the units to fly off the shelves, they would resurrect the Model F switch.

Don't tease SSK or M + F switches = instant buys. It will never happen though I dream about this every week.

I think I remember Emmer being an advocate for restoring the Model F style capsense buckling spring innards, too. But that's way beyond Unicomp's abilities. I said before and I will again: ship an achievable, desirable, solid product first. Then use the earnings to reach for the stars!

As for Emmer, he had a bit of a temper and even took my style of lighthearted criticism all too personally. Then he tried promoting some very expensive Model M restorations on eBay, as some trustworthy "friend's", which were in fact just his. That got him some incoming fire, and he exploded like an arms dump. Sometime later he asked for his account to be deleted, along with all his posts.

Pity, because he was onto something with his renders, and even he joined the Deskthority Club. I considered him a creative contributor to the community, if a touch temperamental.

Muirium wrote: ↑I think I remember Emmer being an advocate for restoring the Model F style capsense buckling spring innards, too. But that's way beyond Unicomp's abilities. I said before and I will again: ship an achievable, desirable, solid product first. Then use the earnings to reach for the stars!

As for Emmer, he had a bit of a temper and even took my style of lighthearted criticism all too personally. Then he tried promoting some very expensive Model M restorations on eBay, as some trustworthy "friend's", which were in fact just his. That got him some incoming fire, and he exploded like an arms dump. Sometime later he asked for his account to be deleted, along with all his posts.

Pity, because he was onto something with his renders, and even he joined the Deskthority Club. I considered him a creative contributor to the community, if a touch temperamental.

That's a shame. Creativity and productive contributions are definitely desirable qualities in a forum member, but anything that crosses shady ethical lines is not--that is strictly a no no in my book.

Customer Service wrote: Message:

We are still working on it. Thanks for your patience.

Best regards,

Customer Service

Groovy! Wonder if they'll do a UK layout? Though being Model M-esque, I guess it won't be beyond the wit of (wo)man to change it around anyway.

Muirium wrote: ↑The renders are our good (and stormed off in a huff) friend Emmer Forever's:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/a-p ... t6977.html

If you read the thread (especially the bits where people quoted him) you'll see how, um, opinionated he was. Sure enough, most of us would be quite happy with something more like the original SSK than his particular layout. But the overall vision is sound. He did some nice work before blowing his top!

I don't recall that layout being his design, just that he worked with Unicomp for the rendering.

Seemed like a guy genuinely interested in quality who simply made a mistake with the ebay thing.

He had a very short fuse that was lit with even the slightest of sparks. Frankly, I was too scared to give him any feedback, be it praise or constructive criticism.

Yup. Easily the most volatile person I've ever encountered on DT. We're generally a laid back bunch, after all. Everyone has their style, but Emmer, yikes. I hope he's found whatever he needed to stop going apeshit.

Re: Unicomp's render. Emmer definitely made it for them, and I remember him saying (maybe earlier in this very thread…) that the layout they went for wasn't one of his suggestions. But a lot of the differences on show from a traditional SSK are things he came up with on his original thread. I suspect they had some verbal back and forth with him before he just left them with it, a project that asks a hell of a lot from little Unicomp.

From Unicomp, Inc. Facebook page

Unicomp, Inc.
TenKeyLess Update: We are working on a tenkeyless keyboard, however, it is taking longer than anticipated. Look for more news on it in the next several months. Thanks for your patience!

https://m.facebook.com/PCKeyboard/photo ... type=1&p=0

They were waiting for Cindy to send the last SSK

Something is more than nothing! I bet it's going to take them even longer than they anticipated.

I reckon they're less than halfway through the project. So "holidays 2016" or thereabouts. (Shipping 2017. Recall and second production run: 2018.)

Cards at the ready folks!

How hard is it for them to clone an SSK ? I mean seriously , they have all the caps, they have USB controllers . All they need is a case and a new matrix. Hell they have the moulding for a full sized M so why not just modify that. We know they can modify that as they have removed the speaker hole .

If they release an SSK, how would we have these fun discussions.....We wouldn't. Thanks Unicomp for allowing us to have our ongoing where is the SSK discussions. Keep up the good work!

I'm sure there's more involved than "cloning". This might be their first project in a long time.

So true. And they have no experience to make realistic time estimates. Hopefully they have better luck with cost.

Where does Unicomp put the controller on their full size models anyway? They didn't do something stupid like put it behind the numpad, right?

And while we are at it unicomp. Your awesome you are keeping the model M alive, we all love you. (apart form your international shipping charges ).

But can we have a model F SSK ? Sure it would be expensive, but it would sell like hotcakes. It would have to have a metal case tho. Or at least an option for it.

Come on you know you want to. You would get a full keyboard full of wing-nuts.

So not going to happen. Plead for realistic goals. Like replacement Model F flippers. Baby steps!

The Unicomp SSK already has a lot of infrastructure behind it. Model F does not.

andrewjoy wrote: ↑ But can we have a model F SSK ? Sure it would be expensive, but it would sell like hotcakes. It would have to have a metal case tho. Or at least an option for it.

Lets see what summer brings

Some pieces are waiting for me: My original plan is to mix all my ideas together and create a "compressed" Model F:

• wooden case (I cannot work metal). Perhaps painted. We will need to add some extra weight.
• SSK or even more compress layout
• Model F barrels
• Xtant-like PCB
• Xwhatsit USB…

The key question is: will I find the time to do it ?

Muirium wrote: ↑So true. And they have no experience to make realistic time estimates. Hopefully they have better luck with cost.

Where does Unicomp put the controller on their full size models anyway? They didn't do something stupid like put it behind the numpad, right?

Top right corner, where the LEDs are.

E TwentyNine wrote: ↑Top right corner, where the LEDs are.

It figures they would put it there...How else could they shoot themselves on the foot and have to redesign everything for the SSK?

Genius!

And they reckon we couldn't possibly live without those LEDs, so could be giving themselves a whole lot more work to do, retrofitting them somewhere else, without realising they might want to ask customers where it's worth it, first.

Have they seen an SSK in the last 15 years? That would help, I think…

andrewjoy wrote:And while we are at it unicomp. Your awesome you are keeping the model M alive, we all love you. (apart form your international shipping charges ).

But can we have a model F SSK ? Sure it would be expensive, but it would sell like hotcakes. It would have to have a metal case tho. Or at least an option for it.

Come on you know you want to. You would get a full keyboard full of wing-nuts.

While I'd love one and that is my dream keyboard I think a F spacesaver is a little unrealistic at the moment Andrew. Let them master the M spacesaver first. They don't seem to be having a real easy time with the project.

seebart wrote: ↑Let them master the M spacesaver first. They don't seem to be having a real easy time with the project.

Maybe because they want to still build this in the US, so why not go to China and get this finally finished and ready for sale to everyone around the world?

Not meaning to offend the official hard-core Americans here on this forum......

I don't think their problem is where to manufacture.
It seems to be a few steps before that. Designing.

That is indeed the case. Unicomp uses old tools to turn out familiar products. Design is something quite new, strange and demanding for them. I have not got much hope invested in this project.

Back in April, I was at one of HaaTa's keyboard meetups (in the otherworldly GitHub HQ actually) and there was a lot of rumormongering going on besides playing with the amazing kit in presence. I can't seem to find the post now, but I remember reporting what I picked up there about the state of Unicomp now. Word from a pretty good source had it that Unicomp had just recently turned down an offer from a Chinese company to buy out their whole company. A generous offer, apparently. People were surprised, as Unicomp's a small outfit without a great future in sight. Word has it they're an ageing little firm, where everyone's looking to their retirement, which they want to be peaceful in Kentucky rather than assisting foreigners in exporting the whole factory. Pity, because Unicomp really needs turning around. If they can't capitalise on the Model M legacy, someone else will. You've seen the cloning going on in the MX world.

Oh, but there was this…

Muirium wrote: ↑Someone at the GitHub keyboard meeting showed me Unicomp's latest promo image. It's on their Facebook apparently. I didn't much like it. They seem to be deviating further from both the original SSK and Emmer's vision.

Emmer was the guy who kicked off the SSK project in the first place. Not inside Unicomp, but here at DT! It was an audacious concept, one he worked through for several generations and eventually got in touch with Unicomp to work with them in making it real. They disagreed, evidently. And Emmer wound up storming off from DT as well.

Ellipse seems to be moving forward with his new Kishsaver project. I wonder if he would be interested in adding the new SSK to his list? And while he is at it, why not make it a Model F SSK?

I would be surprised if Ellipse is not working on just such a thing behind the scenes! Once his Model F project has come together, he'll be in a good position to try an SSK inspired layout. The SSK's form factor is the ideal daily driver of the IBM world. With freshly manufactured Model F mechanisms inside, and a couple of extra mods (and split right Shift key!) it'd be unstoppable.

Also extremely heavy, if he makes it as metal as a Kishy!

Muirium wrote: ↑...as Unicomp's a small outfit without a great future in sight. Word has it they're an ageing little firm, where everyone's looking to their retirement, which they want to be peaceful in Kentucky rather than assisting foreigners in exporting the whole factory.

That very much correlates with their whole behaviour. No change in operations. No development. No expansion. No risk. No investment. I can see chinese wanting to buy Unicomp. Then we'd see the exact opposite strategy. New keyboards, probably for the gamer market with tons of markting. I don't see a new SSK coming from Unicomp. Shame really.

According to Wikipedia:

Unicomp was founded in April 1996 when they purchased the license, tooling and the rights to the design for the buckling-spring keyboard technology (the technology behind the famous IBM Model M and many other keyboards) from Lexmark International, Inc.

So they did not exist before and had no experience? Reads almost like recycling operation now. Let's crank out the rest of the stock for what it's worth type of operation.

Unicomp was a staff buyout, where the existing Lexmark (merely rebranded IBM) management bought their own factory and tooling from their owners, who were planning on shutting them down. It was a brave move, and absolutely the right thing to do.

Trouble is, those people retired - I was told none of the original staff still works there - and their replacements are getting old now as well. So is the tooling, which is why Unicomp's caps suck compared to IBM originals.

The company needs turned around with new blood and fresh investment. China's naturally the ultimate place to do that, but Unicomp's culture is quite proudly American and I think the idea of relocating turned them right off. Perhaps they want bought out by locals, with a promise to stay put? Or perhaps they really just want to keep working the same jobs, on the same machinery, as they have now, until they retire. Which spells doom, of course.

They're going to get cloned. As long as there's consumer interest in Model M, someone's going to try it. If they have any success, they will innovate fast (as we were talking about in Emmer's thread) using the proceeds from the obvious SSK revival project to invest in more daring stuff to succeed it. That's what you see in the MX and clones world. It's happening to Topre too. But the difference is those guys are reacting to it.