Group Build prototyping phase

matt3o · 24 Feb 2015, 18:20

SL89 wrote: ↑take all the time you need, this is DT after all, Round 5 has been going on for how many years?

SL89 · 24 Feb 2015, 18:25

Nahhh i was being serious. This is my favorite concept for a KB out of all the existing ones and IC's floating around. I'd rather you and 7bit took the time you needed to correctly do whatever needs to be done. Idk how guys like you (Matt3o, 7bit, IvanIvanovich and some of the others) can have so many concurrent projects going either.

Muirium · 24 Feb 2015, 18:30

: 446491832.674271.jpg (49.43 KiB) Viewed 4433 times

M1K3L08 · 24 Feb 2015, 21:23

Will the LED for each switch be on the top or bottom of the switch? I ask because almost all the other custom PCB's I've seen have them on the bottom, which makes buying compatible keycaps a pain :/

Muirium · 24 Feb 2015, 21:56

That's a good point. For those of us uninterested in LEDs it makes no difference whether the switches are rotated with the LED hole at the front or back. But for you guys it's actually a big deal!

(I bet we still go with them the traditional way though. Because.)

matt3o · 25 Feb 2015, 01:24

backlight is not currently my priority, at least not for batch 1. I believe the switches are LED-down at the moment, but it will most likely change if we go to batch-2 (that will support full backlight and a birdie is even suggesting RGB).

Memoren · 26 Feb 2015, 07:53

What if there were just a couple standalone LEDs inside the case which would shine out of the flourishing cuts on the side of the case?

matt3o · 26 Feb 2015, 08:16

the pcb supports a couple of LEDs, technically you could light up the keyboard somehow I guess. I might work on that once I have the PCB on my hands.

7bit · 26 Feb 2015, 08:27

matt3o wrote: ↑the PCB is proceeding in two ways. A first batch will be based on teensy, 7bit is helping me on that. If everything goes well and there's enough interest we may move to a better integrated version with an onboard controller.

Unfortunately these things take time...

All I still need to do is to add that USB thing and those funny stabliser mounts. which I will do over the week-end.

Anything else is already working.

M1K3L08 wrote: ↑Will the LED for each switch be on the top or bottom of the switch? I ask because almost all the other custom PCB's I've seen have them on the bottom, which makes buying compatible keycaps a pain :/

Turning all switches by an arbitrary angle is no problem, but would mean more work for laying new tracks ...

DanielT · 26 Feb 2015, 11:55

But why is there a problem with LED-s on the bottom ? I have boards with LED's on the bottom and I don't have any issues with the caps... Never had any sort of issues. And to be honest my OCD would go crazy if I had all switches upside down ....

Muirium · 26 Feb 2015, 12:01

Upside down is when you have the pins sticking out the top! We're just talking about rotated. LED people get a win from this, while non-LED guys like us needn't worry. Well, besides OCD!

7bit · 26 Feb 2015, 13:00

DanielT · 26 Feb 2015, 13:51

Muirium wrote: ↑Upside down is when you have the pins sticking out the top! We're just talking about rotated. LED people get a win from this, while non-LED guys like us needn't worry. Well, besides OCD!

What win ? That's what I'm asking. I have full back light on one of my boards, no issue there. All caps are compatible.
I think I've seen the switch rotated only on Poker II I think.

I think I understand, the cheap back light caps with transparent legends have the legends on the top side , top left in most cases and maybe that's why. But who need those crappy caps anyway .... I wouldn't be caught dead typing on that crap.

Not even the Koreans rotate the switches and they are kings of the LED's , get better caps instead

Muirium · 26 Feb 2015, 13:53

Me neither. I just don't understand why there is a preferred way to orient MX switches, with the LED hole down at the bottom where it's pretty useless. Shouldn't really matter to those uninterested in LEDs.

Add Ducky to the LEDs on top list:

DanielT · 26 Feb 2015, 13:57

In essence there is no difference from the typing experience, but when I remove the caps, seeing the Cherry Logo upside down is driving me crazy

And If you have good quality LED they shine properly no matter which side are mounted, I have that and it's a beauty in blue.
People need better LED's and better key caps

Muirium · 26 Feb 2015, 14:00

Better switches! MX makes it impossible to really light a whole cap evenly. When you jack up the power (blue LED? Nooooo!) leakage increases too, making a sea of shining gaps between the keys.

Like tactile bumps and click mechanisms, LEDs were an afterthought on MX, kludged onto it with a lot of compromise. LEDs at the front: worst possible place to put them!

DanielT · 26 Feb 2015, 14:33

My blue LED faceW is really cool. It's a soothing blue that shines between the thick GMK caps, I usually don't care about LED's, but I liked the color of the LED's so I gave it a try and I was surprised. If I manage to take a decent shot I will post it. The Charred Orange/Skydata GMK caps and blue LED's are a surprising match

SL89 · 26 Feb 2015, 15:16

no backlight for me, wood keyboard is too rugged for backlight, if i want light ill just torch the board itself

7bit · 26 Feb 2015, 16:23

I want little gas-lanterns in the switches for high quality illumination!

Stabilized · 26 Feb 2015, 16:27

Can we do a GB for whale oil?

stormbard · 27 Feb 2015, 16:50

What type/grade of steel/metal is used for the plate?

matt3o · 27 Feb 2015, 17:52

whatever the manufacturer has at the moment

I'm not picky on that regard

matt3o · 02 Mar 2015, 09:16

Ok, we have the PCB schema ready for printing. I'm willing to produce about 25 prototypes (that might be very likely all the PCBs we will ever produce). I'm not making a profit and I don't think I will be selling them outside our GBs so I can't afford to give prototypes away for free.

I would like to know if there's interest for such a thing and if 25 protos would be a realistic number (I could do less than that but price per PCB would increase).

Please bear in mind:
- These are prototypes! there's a chance that the PCB won't work! Unlikely, but possible!
- PCB quality will be very high (higher than hypermicro prototypes), and probably white
- the cost per PCB should be in the 20-35 euro range (+shipping). To that you have to add an USB port that I will provide (about 1 euro), the Teensy (15-18 euro) and diodes (1 euro). The USB port is not mandatory but a nice touch.
- the keyboard does NOT support PCB mounted stabilizers! You NEED a plate!

What about the case?
I will experiment 4 cases:
- layered sandwich like
- plate + 3d printed bottom
- top and bottom plate + 3d printed middle layer
- barebone: top and bottom plate with standoffs

You'll be able to buy any of them based on your budged. The cheapest (the barebone) should be around 30-35 euros. The most expensive around 60-70 euros.

M1K3L08 · 02 Mar 2015, 13:51

matt3o wrote: ↑Ok, we have the PCB schema ready for printing. I'm willing to produce about 25 prototypes (that might be very likely all the PCBs we will ever produce). I'm not making a profit and I don't think I will be selling them outside our GBs so I can't afford to give prototypes away for free.

I would like to know if there's interest for such a thing and if 25 protos would be a realistic number (I could do less than that but price per PCB would increase).

Please bear in mind:
- These are prototypes! there's a chance that the PCB won't work! Unlikely, but possible!
- PCB quality will be very high (higher than hypermicro prototypes), and probably white
- the cost per PCB should be in the 20-35 euro range (+shipping). To that you have to add an USB port that I will provide (about 1 euro), the Teensy (15-18 euro) and diodes (1 euro). The USB port is not mandatory but a nice touch.
- the keyboard does NOT support PCB mounted stabilizers! You NEED a plate!

What about the case?
I will experiment 4 cases:
- layered sandwich like
- plate + 3d printed bottom
- top and bottom plate + 3d printed middle layer
- barebone: top and bottom plate with standoffs

You'll be able to buy any of them based on your budged. The cheapest (the barebone) should be around 30-35 euros. The most expensive around 60-70 euros.

So will there be no 2nd round with the controller etc. ?

Either way, put me down for one of the €70 Kits

matt3o · 02 Mar 2015, 14:15

M1K3L08 wrote: ↑ So will there be no 2nd round with the controller etc. ?

these are the "prototypes" we will have a controller-on-board version eventually. No idea if, when and the cost of it.

7bit · 02 Mar 2015, 14:23

Controller on board is a bad idea, because the controller might break long before the keyboard itself, so it would not be possible to replace the controller.

What do you mean by:
"PCB quality will be very high (higher than hypermicro prototypes), and probably white"

Do you want to say the HyperMicro PCBs are bad quality?

matt3o · 02 Mar 2015, 15:01

7bit wrote: ↑ Do you want to say the HyperMicro PCBs are bad quality?

they are not bad, simply mines are better

I believe the difference is that hypermicro pcbs are "bare", not sealed after printing

PS: where are the plates?!

7bit · 02 Mar 2015, 15:03

You said you want to do the plates yourself.

matt3o · 02 Mar 2015, 15:03

7bit wrote: ↑You said you want to do the plates yourself.

you said it would take you 5 minutes to do them

M1K3L08 · 02 Mar 2015, 15:04

Will the case/plates have support for ISO?