Favorite source for keycaps?

zslane · 03 Aug 2015, 23:07

Since I'm new to all of this, I only know of two sources of custom keycaps:

Signature Plastics
Harvesting keycaps from an existing (often vintage) keyboard

Custom keycap sets from SP are expensive, prohibitively so, unless it is part of a group buy, which limits your choices considerably (to say nothing of how long it takes to obtain them). Harvesting keys from existing keyboards is great if an existing keyboard has what you want and you can find one in good condition at a reasonable price (and those keycaps can be successfully transferred to the modern board of your choice). But it seems to me there's got to be more. An entire hobbyist community would not have sprung up around just two source of keycaps, would it?

So apart from those two sources, where else do people around here turn for custom keycaps?

Muirium · 03 Aug 2015, 23:09

seebart · 03 Aug 2015, 23:20

They should look at Micro Switch...even though you really already mentioned that.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/mic ... 11231.html

zslane · 03 Aug 2015, 23:34

I probably should also have mentioned WASD. You have very limited color choices for the keycap shells (only eleven) and only one profile (OEM), one material (ABS), and one printing method (pad printing + UV coating), but you can specify anything you want for surface/legend text/graphics in any color. Plus the keys are guaranteed to conform to contemporary keyboard layout standards.

But in terms of variety of keycap profiles, materials, printing methods, and color options, does Signature Plastics have any competition?

Muirium · 04 Aug 2015, 00:44

You're talking exclusively about MX caps, right? Because ignoring all the other keyboards out there answers your secondary question:

zslane wrote: ↑An entire hobbyist community would not have sprung up around just two source of keycaps, would it?

Indeed it didn't. Not all of us just use MX. Topre and IBM are both far superior switches in my opinion, but completely different keycap mounts. Might as well throw in Space Invaders too. And there's the Alps guys…

Anyway, excepting all that and considering only MX, there are a few rivals to SP. GMK is the most respected, I think. Then there's BSP. I'm probably forgetting some other offshoot from Cherry themselves, like I said I'm not a Cherry guy. And then recently there's the various Chinese manufacturers who have come late to the party but are catching up at speed, like Vortex and whoever made this tasty PBT spacebar on my Realforce for Matteo! Speaking of which, here's the site for you:

http://keypuller.com/gmk-dolch-replica/

Go investigate!

zslane · 04 Aug 2015, 01:23

I love the keypuller site. Such lovely keyboards. I noticed, however, that only about 6 of the 42 full key sets come from a manufacturer other than Signature Plastics, and they are all for Cherry switches in any case.

Now for Topre, Alps, and other non-Cherry switches, who is the equivalent of Signature Plastics? Who supplies custom keycaps sets for those switch types?

SL89 · 04 Aug 2015, 02:13

Off the top of my head i can think of these manufacturers:

Signature Plastics
GMK
JT Keycaps / CTRLalt
Plum
Tai Hao

and they are all available through different channels.

the /r/MK Wiki has a list of all your keycap wants and needs

zts · 04 Aug 2015, 09:39

For the MX mount I usually get:
- Vortex (PBT or PBT+POM for lights); quite a few "blister" issues in some newer batches
- Leopold/Varmilo (PBT) easily my favorite
- Tai-Hao (PBT)
- Signature Plastics (ABS)

For Topre (these are expensive no matter how you look at it):
- Leopold or Topre kits

For Alps:
- mostly harvesting old "brand new" (NIB) Acers for PBTs
- Matias is now also selling caps sets (ABS)

For IBM:
- sets from Unicomp
- harvest from dead boards

Other (more rare) mounts:
- usually harvest from 2 or 3 to make one "good-looking"

cswanic · 04 Aug 2015, 14:17

First of all welcome to the enthusiasts club! You can find a lot of keycaps available probably in a price range you are looking for by watching the marketplace sections on the forums as well as of course ebay. Caveat de emptor of course when dealing with small parties but once you get started you as well as most others you come to meet, will build a collection fairly easily and then of course you can resell or simply trade for the caps you are looking for.

Other keycap manufacturers:
BSP from the EU

It depends on what you are looking for too. Keycap buys come in all sorts of colors, profiles, stems, and plastics. There's lots of advice in the forums too! Let us know what you are looking for and someone can likely offer advice on where to look. Best of luck!

zslane · 05 Aug 2015, 09:46

On the /r/MK wiki I see examples of folks who put SA profile keycap sets onto Topre switches. Who makes SA keys for Topre?

002 · 05 Aug 2015, 10:00

No-one does

Are they NovaTouch TKL keyboards by any chance? if so, they are just standard Cherry MX keycaps.
There are Realforce keyboards with Hi-Pro keycaps but these are made by Topre and not available in any keycap sets.

zslane · 05 Aug 2015, 19:27

Well, marre259 describes the keyboard below as "Silenced Novatouch w/ Signature Plastics Keycaps", and those look like DSAs to me (okay, so they aren't SAs, but they are still SP keycaps which means SAs would fit too, right?)

Muirium · 05 Aug 2015, 19:30

Yes, I'm typing on this Topre switch NovaTouch with Round 5 SA caps right now:

http://deskthority.net/post246403.html#p246403

MX cap compatibility is the whole point of the NovaTouch. It's a fantastic idea, but with mediocre execution. I'm much happier with mine now I have it damped.

zslane · 05 Aug 2015, 19:54

Mediocre execution in what sense? How are the Novatouch Topre switches different from standard Topre switches (aside from collars that make them accept Cherry MX keycaps)?

And are these Novatouch boards TKL only? A google image search doesn't turn up any full 104-key examples.

chzel · 05 Aug 2015, 20:03

I suggest you take a bit of time to read Mu's review of the NT. It's a long read, but worth it.

And yes, NT is only TKL.

Muirium · 05 Aug 2015, 20:08

I need to update the review with a word about these dampers sometime. But I stand by everything I said about the NovaTouch, as it ships as standard. Rattly, uninspiring, no true replacement for the Realforce. It's not clear what they got wrong, but they didn't fix it during the stages of development I saw. So instead we do these things ourselves!

CM did drop some hints a while ago about a fullsize model coming. That's all I know about it.

zslane · 05 Aug 2015, 21:37

Excellent, thorough review of the NovaTouch. Much appreciated!

So I guess if CM ever makes a full-size ANSI model with Realforce- or Leopold-calibre internal damping, I'll be standing in line for one. Just to try it out of curiosity, if nothing else.

In the mean time, my fetish for SA caps continues unabated and its MX reds (maybe blacks?) for now. (My Space Cadet caps, when they arrive, will need a good board and so far its looking like another Filco is top contender.)

macmakkara · 05 Aug 2015, 21:42

@Mµ you using colemak or qwerty?

Muirium · 05 Aug 2015, 22:04

Qwerty. Though I just typed on caps marked Qwfpgj to do that… so yeah you've caught me in between! I've been meaning to learn Colemak for ages, and now I've got the caps for it. Haven't quite dared to get back on the saddle yet and actually set my computer to Colemak input.

Okay, here goes…

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
Typing on alternate layouts is hard, slow, and irritating at first. The point, of course, being to make it through to second. Whatever you might expect of actually reaching that point, it is at the very least achievable, so I am led to expect. But what was all this about a fox?
Shiny black obelisks of silken steel are known for their attractive properties to the sullied social element.

I need to memorise some more Lorem Ipsums.

Anyway, slow going, as you might expect. Hard to unlearn all that muscle memory, even when you know Colemak is better than Qwerty, like me. But it sure helps to have great big high contrast legends on the keys! I'm spending more time looking at them than I've done in years!

macmakkara · 05 Aug 2015, 22:36

Muirium wrote: ↑Qwerty. Though I just typed on caps marked Qwfpgj to do that… so yeah you've caught me in between! I've been meaning to learn Colemak for ages, and now I've got the caps for it. Haven't quite dared to get back on the saddle yet and actually set my computer to Colemak input.

Okay, here goes…

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy assed dawg.
Typing on alternate layouts is hard, slow, and irritating at first. The point, of course, being to make it through to second. Whatever you might expect of actually reaching that point, it is at the very least achievable, so I am led to expect. But what was all this about a fox?
Shiny black obelisks of silken steel are known for their attractive properties to the sullied social element.
I need to memorise some more Lorem Ipsums.

Anyway, slow going, as you might expect. Hard to unlearn all that muscle memory, even when you know Colemak is better than Qwerty, like me. But it sure helps to have great big high contrast legends on the keys! I'm spending more time looking at them than I've done in years!

im acttually writing these on dvorak

im really slow atm but im trying to learn this

sethk · 06 Aug 2015, 03:54

Gateron makes PBT blanks and enjoypbt dyesubs them. I like my set of them.

Eszett · 06 Aug 2015, 07:55

@sethk Can he dyesub customer-defined legends, too?

sethk · 06 Aug 2015, 11:16

Eszett wrote:@sethk Can he dyesub customer-defined legends, too?

Not sure he hasn't replied to any of my messages yet

zslane · 06 Aug 2015, 19:56

If one had to choose between, say, a dyesub PBT set and a double-shot ABS set, which would you choose? Suppose you are hooked on the SA profile (though you also feel that DSA is a reasonable alternative), and you found a set you loved the look/design of, but you had to choose between SAs in ABS or DSAs in PBT? Which would it be?

I guess I'm curious about the relative importance of these variables to each of you: profile, material, printing method. (I'm leaving aside the issue of switch type since that trumps all other concerns, and just focusing on the other aspects.)

Muirium · 06 Aug 2015, 20:10

I prefer dyesub PBT to everything else. But you're right to bring up the tradeoffs. Because right now my PBT DSA Granite caps aren't getting any use with all the ABS SA doubleshot Round 5s. That could be a newness thing (I'm still playing with the various colour combos, while I'm long used to Granite) but I expect my strong preference for SA over DSA is just as important.

Still, these things are all entirely personal. For instance, here's Alin choosing the opposite:

alinh wrote: ↑Hello,

I've finally received my Round5 order and tested the caps a bit.
They're nice and stuff, but they're too tall for me and I'm too used to DSA profile.

I'd like to sell the following…

For me, and quite a few people at DT, the ultimate caps would be tall spherical (SA like) PBT dyesubs. On Topre mount! But that's surely not the case for everyone. People have different tastes.

andrewjoy · 06 Aug 2015, 20:46

Muirium wrote: ↑ tall spherical (SA like) PBT dyesubs.

that's the dream ! In all mounts !
Sure people have other tastes , but then they are wrong

zslane · 06 Aug 2015, 20:58

If the double-shot process were perfected for PBT, would that become the new must-have format?

One of the things I like about the Signature Plastics line of SA profile (ABS) keycaps is the semigloss finish option. From what I can tell, there is simply no such thing as semigloss when it comes to PBT...

andrewjoy · 06 Aug 2015, 21:04

I am typing on an NMB now and i can tell you , the sides of the PBT caps are lovely and matte as are the tops, Puts IBM to shame to be fair.

Muirium · 06 Aug 2015, 21:53

Aye. IBM's best caps were the glorious tall ABS doubleshots they put on beamsprings. So toothy! They knew how to do a good dyesub when they moved to PBT with buckling spring, but the caps themselves aren't as nice as Topre's or indeed Hi-Tek/NMB's. Oh yeah, I should shoot comparisons between the two now I have both…

Doubleshot PBT is a thing. Vortex recently figured out how to produce it. I don't know much about their doubleshot PBT caps though, as they're not exactly known for their good quality let alone taste. Besides, being stuck inside the London customs zone makes such speculative purchases significantly more expensive for me. Anyone got good pictures of them and a thoughtful write up?

Parak · 06 Aug 2015, 22:01

Muirium wrote: ↑Aye. IBM's best caps were the glorious tall ABS doubleshots they put on beamsprings. So toothy! They knew how to do a good dyesub when they moved to PBT with buckling spring

AFAIK Beam springs used PBT, as I recall testing with some acetone a while back. Which would mean that IBM was doing PBT giant spacebars and tripleshots long before complaining about the inability to do them was (not) cool.