AlpineFox Interest Check (Alps based project)

KRKS · 22 Nov 2015, 12:57

Speaking of compatibility, here's a list from the GH thread about Matias Keycaps. Keep in mind that it may be outdated though.

Blank Alphanumeric Keyset with Spacebars

26 R4_1
1 R4_1_LED

16 R3_1

12 R2_1
3 R2_1_Blind

15 R1_1
1 R1_2

1 Spacebar_7
1 Spacebar_6.25
1 Spacebar_5.5 (not yet available)

Blank Modifier Keyset

17 R4_1
2 R4_1_LED
1 R4_2

5 R3_1
2 R3_1.5

1 R2-3_LEnter_2x1.5
1 R2-3_2x1

4 R2_1
1 R2_1.75_LED
1 R2_2.25

7 R1_1
8 R1_1.25
4 R1_1.5
2 R1_1.75 (not yet available)
2 R1_2.25
1 R1_2.75
1 R1_2x1

As for the interect check, I'm not interested in the Bianca layout. 1.75u space is just too short for me, I think 4u and above is a good size and MiniLa space(2.75 I think?) is probably the smallest I'd use.

Muirium · 22 Nov 2015, 13:41

Like I said, I'm only interested in using vintage Alps caps. Matias aren't up to much. And SP's are too expensive for what they are. Vintage stuff is cheaper and much higher quality. Win!

Muirium wrote: ↑What's the precise problem with using a thinner plate with the White Fox design? Nothing we could fix with sneaky washers?

I believe Alps have a different distance between PCB and plate than MX, too. So it could definitely be tricky.

Yeah, uh, what that guy asked!

Hypersphere · 22 Nov 2015, 15:01

I am interested in Alps and Alps-type boards, but I prefer a 60% form factor with either a standard layout like the V60 or the HHKB Pro 2 layout. Between the two, I would much prefer the HHKB layout.

It would be nice if the plate and PCB could accept either "standard" Alps/Matias switches or Monterey blues.

As for caps, dye-sub PBT in a sculpted profile or maybe high-quality ABS double-shots in a sculpted profile.

Stabilizers: like those on the V60MTS boards.

matt3o · 22 Nov 2015, 15:30

reusing the whitefox doesn't seem a viable solution at this point. It's not a problem for me but it will take more time to run the prototypes, design the PCB and all.

I'm not attracted at all by a V60-like keyboard, but if we go the "bianca" route I'm more than happy to continue in this endeavor.

Hypersphere · 22 Nov 2015, 17:24

@matt3o: As I recall, the bianca design includes full programmability and no stabilizers. However, could you refresh our memories about some proposed functions (in addition to spacebar(s)) for the longer keys on the bottom row of the bianca?

matt3o · 22 Nov 2015, 17:32

bianca as of now is just a proof of concept, the discussion never went over "it's nice and it can be done". If I had to do it en-mass I would do it differently and with probably some stabilizers and maybe not with a "square" layout but shaped similarly to a HHKB (even more drastic to tell the truth, with a 4th and 5th row smaller than the others)

pyrelink · 22 Nov 2015, 20:01

Hasu has the square 60% alps market covered well, and there have been multiple good opportunities to hop on that train already. I think this project needs to push the boundaries of what we expect from an Alps custom. My favorite part of Bianca is the heavily reduced key sizes. There were just too many additional keys on the current Bianca. I feel there is a really great layout hidden in Bianca, it just needs some of Matt3os streamlining. Can't wait to see where this goes.

Muirium · 22 Nov 2015, 20:13

pyrelink wrote: ↑Hasu has the square 60% alps market covered well, and there have been multiple good opportunities to hop on that train already.

And I missed the whole damn lot…

Spoiler:

KRKS · 23 Nov 2015, 15:40

matt3o wrote: ↑bianca as of now is just a proof of concept, the discussion never went over "it's nice and it can be done". If I had to do it en-mass I would do it differently and with probably some stabilizers and maybe not with a "square" layout but shaped similarly to a HHKB (even more drastic to tell the truth, with a 4th and 5th row smaller than the others)

So something like this?

matt3o · 23 Nov 2015, 15:43

I would reduce the spacebars count and probably would make enter and control smaller. the result would be a nice reversed Mayan pyramid

wacko78 · 26 Nov 2015, 19:28

KRKS wrote:
matt3o wrote: ↑bianca as of now is just a proof of concept, the discussion never went over "it's nice and it can be done". If I had to do it en-mass I would do it differently and with probably some stabilizers and maybe not with a "square" layout but shaped similarly to a HHKB (even more drastic to tell the truth, with a 4th and 5th row smaller than the others)
So something like this?

That's is shmexy. Been looking for split space bar alps options. I'd definitely love to see this materialize. Love the smaller bottom row

vivalarevolución · 28 Nov 2015, 15:42

I understand that the layout in the OP is most compatible with vintage Keyset, but I don't find it very usable in practice, as I tried something similar with an Infinity layout for awhile. Something like the Bianca would be an interesting alternative, if enough interest could be garnered for a production run.

matt3o · 10 Dec 2015, 15:49

so I was toying with something like this

SL89 · 10 Dec 2015, 16:00

matt3o wrote: ↑so I was toying with something like this

I'd like to try that out.

Usually I advocate for fullsize board and all that jazz. But lately ive been seeing a lot of layouts like this that are very compelling. This would be remappable so the left space could be backspace and the right is a normal space right?

EDIT: I would take a smaller enter key and right shift to make it symmetrical as well.

matt3o · 10 Dec 2015, 16:02

yes of course, layout is remappable

EDIT: it wouldn't actually be symmetrical that way

SL89 · 10 Dec 2015, 16:17

What about a shorter right shift and enter to make it symmetrical?

pcaro · 10 Dec 2015, 16:19

I just have my wallet open for the WhiteFox and you show this awesome layout for Alps.., matt3o, Stop please! or my (3 years old) children are going to get keyboards for christmas...

matt3o · 10 Dec 2015, 16:20

SL89 wrote: ↑What about a shorter right shift and enter to make it symmetrical?

the keyboard shape wouldn't be symmetrical, only the keycap sizes. I believe I prefer the former to the latter.

pcaro wrote: ↑I just have my wallet open for the WhiteFox and you show this awesome layout for Alps.., matt3o, Stop please! or my (3 years old) children are going to get keyboards for christmas...

they have to start young

gogusrl · 10 Dec 2015, 18:17

I say keep the standard 60% layout and just add split spacebar support.

split spacebar is the futuuuuuure ....

SL89 · 10 Dec 2015, 21:58

@matt3o ahh ok, i understand now that ive given it a second look

@gogusrl i think the future is now, im interested in it for 2 things, split bar layout and ALPS

Hypersphere · 10 Dec 2015, 22:17

@matt3o: I appreciate your innovation and inventiveness, and I am very much in favor of an Alps-based project. However, as for me, the form factors that work for me are 60% and 80% (TKL). Between these, I prefer 60% for both size and symmetry. I have yet to find anything in between that works well for me.

Regarding layouts in a 60% form factor, I prefer either a standard layout (like the Poker or V60) or the HHKB Pro 2.

A bit of a hybrid layout in a 60% form factor that I could like would be everything standard except for a split Right Shift (1.75x Right Shift + 1.00x to the right of Right Shift).

The other thing I would like to see is keycap sets for Alps-mount switches with the keycaps in dye-sub PBT and OEM profile. I would not be interested in DSA profile.

Thanks.

matt3o · 10 Dec 2015, 23:32

well I need a challenge. I'm not very much interested in building a keyboard that doesn't bring anything new to the table. Let's not forget that I'm doing all this just for passion.

My next thing would be wireless. It seems incredibly difficult to make it right, but I'm trying. Making a 60% alps keyboard is not much interesting I think, split spacebar might be something, now add to it wireless and you got something.

Muirium · 11 Dec 2015, 00:06

Something to make µ prick up his ears!

Wireless is an absolute plus. And you know my thoughts on 60% and HHKB supremacy (similar to Hypersphere's). Then throw this little beast into the mix:

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2829

USB programmable, and powerable, plus a battery controller and topped off with Bluetooth. Boom! It's a hell of a bundle, and I'm seriously considering getting one myself and cluing up on TMK for it. Could really use a converter box with that beauty inside!

Edit: So tasty, it's damn well out of stock again. I had one in my basket too! Ah well, it's available in Europe at least.

Halvar wrote: ↑The Adafruit Feather 32u4 Bluefruit LE is out of stock at adafruit.com, but EXP-tech now has a few:

http://www.exp-tech.de/adafruit-feather ... uefruit-le

matt3o · 11 Dec 2015, 00:17

those are prototyping boards, in my experience they are not good (enough) for a serious product (namely, lame battery life)

Muirium · 11 Dec 2015, 00:21

True. I'm thinking of one as a multi-mode TMK keyboard converter that's USB powered but with a bit of Bluetooth on the side. Bitbanging existing protocols is always a power hog, but I'm too lazy to learn the code myself when I can shake and bake from Hasu's on a regular Teensy. This thing might be my carrot.

You're better off with the Bluetooth module itself, baked right into your PCB.

matt3o · 11 Dec 2015, 00:27

Muirium wrote: ↑True. I'm thinking of one as a multi-mode TMK keyboard converter that's USB powered but with a bit of Bluetooth on the side.

that should be relatively simple. could be a nice toy project.

Laser · 11 Dec 2015, 00:30

So, a 60% HHKB-ish format? Perhaps with short backspace and \| in regular position though, with rechargeable Bluetooth and USB controller?

I have Blue Alps switches ...

(note the similarity ... Blue Alps, Blue Tooth, Blue Alps, Blue Tooth - the keyboard project logo could be "made for each other"

)

Muirium · 11 Dec 2015, 00:33

Me too, me too!

matt3o wrote: ↑
Muirium wrote: ↑True. I'm thinking of one as a multi-mode TMK keyboard converter that's USB powered but with a bit of Bluetooth on the side.
that should be relatively simple. could be a nice toy project.

It's *my* toy, man. Quit making fun of my toys, Toy Man!

Ahem, anyway yeah I'm looking for something that I need, I think will be neat, and that should be doable. I've a lot of learning to do in any case. And some baaadassed NeXTs in wait.

Laser · 11 Dec 2015, 00:39

Muirium wrote: ↑Me too, me too!

Those are like the toy soldiers from the Nutcracker, waiting to see some action!

Muirium · 11 Dec 2015, 00:43

My Alpine legion awaits your command, Matteo.