Tipro model is this single layer pcb ?

[jond_keyhack]

The non standard 8pins mini DIN is to connect to the computer, the other (the classic 6-pin mini-DIN ) is a passthrough to connect another keyboard.

Would I need to connect one keyboard to another ? Is kdbfr's connected this way?

[Vierax]

The extra PS/2 port is to connect another keyboard (not a mouse, it won't work) that is not a Tipro MID. You often have only one keyboard PS/2 port on your motherboard, and he's more and more shared with the mouse port if it exists, and the good thing is that you don't have to go under your PC case to plug.
I use it to sometimes plug in an arcade stick made with an old keyboard controller.

To connect two MID (or KMX) to make a super keyboard in Hyper7 style as kbdfr did, you have to plug them internally. He already explained that extension feature pretty well and if you open your Tipro it will be obvious to you too.

OoT : Please edit correctly the quote.

[jond_keyhack]

Programming 2: Tipro PS/2 controllers can be programmed only with a 32-bit system (Windows XP or Windows 7, but I think the software should also work under Windows 8).
Programming 3: Programming requires a native PS/2 socket, an adapter between the keyboard and the computer will prevent the software from identifying the keyboard. Once programmed, Tipro keyboards work with any OS and virtually any adapters (tested with a MID: PS/2 > DIN > PS/2 > USB).

is this just for MID?

Oh so you have to plug them internally when you run one or more kmx and mid. Is that the only way you can connect them then for changeme to recognize all three / two as one. Or is it not possible to connect them individually using three separate ps/2 to usb adapters?

[Vierax]

Yes it's just a restriction for MID PS/2 and only when you want to program it. After that you can use a USB adapter and run it on another OS.
The ChangeMe software is only available on Windows so even with a USB Tipro, you need Windows to program the keyboard. The old PS/2 MID needs a 32bit Windows, the other don't (if I remember well)

See the internal connection as an extend of the main keyboard, you still can program them separately if you don't want to have a single huge board. If you have some identical usb boards, it's safer to plug them one after another to be sure that it's the targeted one which is programmed.

OoT : now you forgot the appropriate quotes

[kbdfr]

Programming 2: Tipro PS/2 controllers can be programmed only with a 32-bit system (Windows XP or Windows 7, but I think the software should also work under Windows 8).
Programming 3: Programming requires a native PS/2 socket, an adapter between the keyboard and the computer will prevent the software from identifying the keyboard. Once programmed, Tipro keyboards work with any OS and virtually any adapters (tested with a MID: PS/2 > DIN > PS/2 > USB).

is this just for MID?

Oh so you have to plug them internally when you run one or more kmx and mid. Is that the only way you can connect them then for changeme to recognize all three / two as one. Or is it not possible to connect them individually using three separate ps/2 to usb adapters?

Please do not just copy and paste quotes from others, but show they are quotes.
The explanation in your post is not yours, but mine, so please edit it.
In the post editor, mark it and then hit the "Quote" button,
or even better, to give credit, write this (but using square brackets!)
at the beginning: {quote="kbdfr"}
and at the end: {/quote}

[kbdfr]

And now to help you to understand how Tipro MID keyboards are connected
(I reckon I could and surely should have fed the wiki, but well...)
here some photos:

Spoiler:

Tipro MID innards 01.jpg (197.9 KiB) Viewed 5984 times

Two Tipro MID units connected together. The additional PCB in the left unit is the controller.

Tipro MID innards 02.jpg (197.18 KiB) Viewed 5984 times

Controller removed, its connection to the PCB was the small red square socket at the bottom of the pic. The ribbon cable between both units is their internal connection. When they are connected, the Tipro ChangeMe software will identify them together as one keyboard.

Tipro MID innards 03.jpg (120.49 KiB) Viewed 5984 times

Connection cable removed, showing the "Tipro bus" with which both keyboards were connected. Tipro keyboard PCBs have such a "Tipro bus" socket on each side, allowing it to build virtually endless keyboards (I think I read somewhere about twelve as a maximum, maximum I tested was five).

Tipro MID innards 04.jpg (246.48 KiB) Viewed 5984 times

The plastic "joiner" with which units are physically put together (leaving just enough room for the ribbon cable when the bottom plate is in place). It fits exactly where the plastic side covers of both keyboards have been removed.

And please, please: read posts at least twice and make sure to understand what is said before asking new questions.

[jond_keyhack]

Yes it's just a restriction for MID PS/2 and only when you want to program it. After that you can use a USB adapter and run it on another OS.
The ChangeMe software is only available on Windows so even with a USB Tipro, you need Windows to program the keyboard. The old PS/2 MID needs a 32bit Windows, the other don't (if I remember well)

I don't think I can do this then because I have windows 7 64 bit. I wouldn't be able to program them. Are you 100% sure about this? This may sound an odd question but if I had a a usb configured MID newer version in the centre with two older versions either side linked up to the centre. Could I program them all as one in windows 7 64 bit ?

[jond_keyhack]

Can I connect kmx boards in this way or is there any point in doing so?

Can kmx boards be programmed under 64 bit os ? thanks

[Vierax]

I have nothing more to answer because of a lot of things (and you won't like what I will say but please read it all) :

Firstly, learn how to improve your manners : kbdfr makes the effort to do a long and explicit answer with pictures for you (this is a really nice work kbdfr : « chapeau bas l'ami ! » ) and you just ignored him. IMO that's more than inappropriate, that's rude and insulting. So I don't want to help you anymore.

Secondly, learn how to listen : I speak for myself but it's obvious that anybody likes repeating the same informations over and over again. It's as you don't read what we say. We are like parrots talking to a deaf : it's pointless. Moreover, there is not much more to say about Tipro keyboards, we ever answered almost everything.

Thirdly, Read The Fucking Manual and learn how find informations by yourself to be autonomous : There are lots of information about Tipro's over the internet. A simple research leads you to the manufacturer website and there are some subjects here in this forum that I read before when I was at the same level as you : all of my knowledge comes from those sources and the majority is due to kbdfr himself. If one day you jump on an open source operating system and don't change that behaviour, for sure you will receive no help at all.

A last thing : learn how to quote correctly people. There is a clicky interface for people who don't know what BBCode is. The two times you did this, you rectified them but no excuse was formulated (and I loop to the basic of manners)

Yes this is hard to read but consider that it's a privilege that we spend some time for you to share our knowledge. Keep in mind that this is not our job : we're not paid and we do this on spare time (as group buy organisers).
So now, you can insult me and showing that the points I said are perfectly true or you can take some perspective, realise that others should think like me but stay quiet and work on those points I showed you.

[kbdfr]

@Vierax: thanks for the kind words, and thanks for exploding before I was so far

[Vierax]

You are welcome I actually have a similar case to deal with in the bépo forum, so I already was in the same move

(I just realised how Tipro logo looks like a sort of living chocolate tablet )

[jond_keyhack]

Hi I am really sorry. I didn't mean to ignore kbdfr's answer but it actually took some further questioning to understand what a controller was etc. I am now back referencing his great post. Although I am genuinely sorry for supposedly wasting some peoples time in the meantime in gaining the required knowledge to understand kbdfr's post.

You are right in that I should have done some good research and I am sorry that I haven't. It jsut seems the other threads are inconclusive

[kbdfr]

[…] but it actually took some further questioning to understand what a controller was […]

Are you kidding? There are at least two really basic and obvious, easy-to-find information sources:
Deskthority wiki: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keyboard_controller
wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_c ... computing)

[jond_keyhack]

Can I mix a post 2002 tipro usb controller with a pre 2002 ps2 controller and use the controller of the usb one for Changeme to recognize and program two or more boards together as one keyboard?

I can't find any info on their website about compatibility

[kbdfr]

Can I mix a post 2002 tipro usb controller with a pre 2002 ps2 controller and use the controller of the usb one for Changeme to recognize and program two or more boards together as one keyboard?

I can't find any info on their website about compatibility

Sigh...

• The ChangeMe software will "recognize and program two or more boards together as one keyboard" only if they are connected together via "Tipro bus" (i.e. if they have those small red square sockets on their PCBs connected together via the flat cable as shown in the pic in the spoiler of my post above).
• When keyboards are connected together via "Tipro bus", the controller of only one of them is used to connect the whole assembly to the computer. You cannot "mix controllers".
• When keyboards are not connected together via "Tipro bus", but chained (i.e. one of them is connected to the computer and the other one is connected to PS/2 input socket of the first one), then the computer will accept input from both keyboards, but the ChangeMe software will recognize and program only the one directly connected to the computer.
• If by "mixing controllers" you mean that you intend to "Tipro-bus-connect" two units and connect both to the computer, one of them via USB and the other one via PS/2, then please report here what happens. For sure it will not be what your question suggests.

Once again I wonder whether you ever opened ChangeMe (which of course is possible even without a Tipro keyboard connected) and had a look at it. I guess not, otherwise you would know it checks the port (USB or PS/2) chosen in the Preferences.
So please do your homework.
And please make sure you have read and understood my post before asking new questions.

[collector of junk]

kbdfr don't have a go at jond_keyhack it is confusing when you first start doing this stuff and don't forget you've known this stuff for ages and are now considered the guru of tipro (where not worthy)
wait while he discovers teensy and having to do programming !!!!!


jond_keyhack whats going to be the end use for these tipro's ??? anyway

p.s one tip from my programming access boards is do a little SAVE IT then move on to next stage etc

if you also need to make labels for your blank keycaps I think preh do some software(not 64 bit) for that (not tried it myself)

pps also don't know if this is of help or more confusion lol http://www.tipro.net/ecatalogue/controllers/

[jond_keyhack]

Can I mix a post 2002 tipro usb controller with a pre 2002 ps2 controller and use the controller of the usb one for Changeme to recognize and program two or more boards together as one keyboard?

I can't find any info on their website about compatibility

• The ChangeMe software will "recognize and program two or more boards together as one keyboard" only if they are connected together via "Tipro bus" (i.e. if they have those small red square sockets on their PCBs connected together via the flat cable as shown in the pic in the spoiler of my post above).
• When keyboards are connected together via "Tipro bus", the controller of only one of them is used to connect the whole assembly to the computer. You cannot "mix controllers".
  .

What I meant is will the controller being used (when having connected via the red sockets) have to be from the same version or 'year' model as each tipro connected. Could I use for example a 2012 tipro's controller (usb) connected to two 2006 tipro boards (usb also) via red tape and changeme recognize everything as one board?

I ask this because I just ordered an expensive 2012 staggered tipro MID usb version to go with my matrix layout 2006 usb tipro mid board and I'm hoping that I can connect them via the red switches without buying any extra parts [like wire or switch or something]. Then I will connect another 2006 usb version similar to the one I already have.

So my concern is that I may be able to do this with a 2002 ps/2 staggered board (for my main typing).

In which case I would just try and connect it to two 2006 tipro 128 matrix boards as in the above setup and just try have changeme recognize everything through one of those usb boards.

The only concern I have with that possibility is that I need everything compatible in 64 bit os and I don't have the patience to use windows xp or a 32 bit os from somewhere else.

thanks for everyones help so far. I may try the second solution above but its only possible in proxying two or three boards from germany to England. In doing option 2 above I would save around 50 - 70 great british pounds and could put that money towards the gigantic amount of clear relegendable MID key caps I will need. Please see my thread about the proxy or pm me if you can proxy for me.

[kbdfr]

Again you seem not to really have read previous answers.

All MID Tipro keyboards from (roughly) 2002 on can be equipped with either a PS/2 or a USB controller. So there isn't a "2006 USB version" or a "2012 USB version", only pre-2002 and post-2002 boards. The older ones (this means: older than roughly 2002) are only PS/2 but not USB compatible, the more recent ones (this means: more recent than roughly 2002) are PS/2 and USB compatible.
Controller swapping is a matter of 3 minutes and the only tool needed is a screwdriver to remove the bottom plate.

Again, it's the controller which is PS/2 or USB, not the keyboard.

So yes, if the primary unit is connected to your computer via USB, any secondary unit not older than (roughly) 2002 can be connected to it as a secondary unit (that's logical enough, as it would itself, as a primary unit, work with a USB controller).

There is absolutely no need to buy an "expensive 2012 staggered tipro MID usb version to go with [your] matrix layout 2006 usb tipro mid board". You can either:

• take the USB controller from your matrix board and install it in any post-2002 staggered board, using the staggered board as primary unit and the matrix board as secondary unit (secondary units do not need a controller themselves)
  or
• leave the USB controller in the matrix board and connect it to the computer as the primary unit, connecting any post-2002 staggered board to it as a secondary unit (which then doesn't need an own controller).

Which solution is chosen doesn't matter, the software will recognize any configuration of (i) a primary unit connected to the computer via its controller and (ii) one or several secondary unit(s) internally connected to the primary unit via Tipro bus.

I would suggest you cancel your order for an "expensive 2012 staggered tipro MID" and, if you do not already have one, buy a cheaper post-2002 staggered Tipro MID (I could probably help there).

[jond_keyhack]

I would suggest you cancel your order for an "expensive 2012 staggered tipro MID" and, if you do not already have one, buy a cheaper post-2002 staggered Tipro MID (I could probably help there).

thanks kbdfr. Could you or someone help me identify whether this http://www.ebay.de/itm/TIPRO-Futuro-Kas ... 58a3ae5539 is a post 2002 board?

I'd then also order one of these http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kassen-Apotheker ... 3f3176837d

and I would be good to go ..

I will cancel my order and try this first then


this setup would look better anyway because hopefully all three boards connected would be grey and not one black

Am I right in thinking that post 2002 all boards are MID series which are compatible with 64 bit computers? And that pre 2002 boards are the KMX versions with smaller keys that you have?

hopefully this will all work in 64 bit then

Actually I might just try and buy those boards although it says delivery only to Germany. If someone buys them through their ebay and gives my address for delivery I could pay you through paypal

thanks kbdfr

[scottc]

Actually I might just try and buy those boards although it says delivery only to Germany. If someone buys them through their ebay and gives my address for delivery I could pay you through paypal

You won't be able to fool them like that. If you want them shipped to the UK, you'll need to ask a nice German forum member to get the board shipped to them and have them send it to you.

[kbdfr]

[…]Could you or someone help me identify whether this http://www.ebay.de/itm/TIPRO-Futuro-Kas ... 58a3ae5539 is a post 2002 board?

I'd then also order one of these http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kassen-Apotheker ... 3f3176837d

Both links show Tipro TMC boards, not MID boards. As the TMC series was launched after 2002, all Tipro TMC boards should be USB compatible.

So obviously you're not after MID boards, but after TMC boards (which Tipro now call "Free").

TMC boards are built differently from MID boards. They have a very elaborate cable management system, and also their connecting sockets are not at the back like on MID boards, but at the bottom. Their controllers differ as well, as do their layouts, which in both cases is slightly non-standard.
But of course the caps used are the same size and fit standard Cherry MX switches.

And again:
while once programmed any Tipro board will work with any operating system (without any need for installation),
PS/2 Tipro boards require 32 bit Windows for programming,
USB Tipro boards require 64 bit Windows for programming.

Actually I might just try and buy those boards although it says delivery only to Germany. If someone buys them through their ebay and gives my address for delivery I could pay you through paypal

Don't just buy things before you are really sure it is what you need
And if a seller says "delivery only to Germany", it wouldn't be a good idea to have a German member buying from him and giving your address for delivery, because precisely the seller says "delivery only to Germany".

Edit: scottc was quicker on that last point

[jond_keyhack]

Actually I might just try and buy those boards although it says delivery only to Germany. If someone buys them through their ebay and gives my address for delivery I could pay you through paypal

Don't just buy things before you are really sure it is what you need
And if a seller says "delivery only to Germany", it wouldn't be a good idea to have a German member buying from him and giving your address for delivery, because precisely the seller says "delivery only to Germany".

Edit: scottc was quicker on that last point

sorry, yeh you are right about this.

sorry also about the confusion between MID and TMC and yes I am now and was previously referring to TMC boards.

I have messaged the staggered TMC seller on ebay with regards to the date of his versions and international delivery and I will do the same now for the other matrix board.

I guess the only altercation would be in denying that my beautiful 2012 TMC 'free' board and I could ever be good friends and I could use the 50 million key strokes those cherry blacks are asking for.

Has anyone ever actually experienced a key dying on them because it ran out of strokes?

I just opened the 2012 tipro TMC FREE it is so nice. I don't think I can change. Picture to come

I've connected them and I think this looks awesome. I swapped the gray bezel for the black on the near side and I might try the grey for the black on the far side too! I'm not going to get another board now. If I get anything it'll just be one or two 8x4 for either side.
time to go key shopping

[kbdfr]

[…] Has anyone ever actually experienced a key dying on them because it ran out of strokes?

Switches do not contain a counter that will prevent them from working once they reach a certain number of strokes

My G80-2100 (with blacks) has seen heavy professional use for something like 15 years, and no switch ever failed.

But well,
- supposing one types 100 words per minute (=500 strokes, a word being defined as 5 strokes for measurement purposes)
- and considering the most used letter, i.e. "e", makes for about 15% of all characters depending on the language,
- and supposing one actually types non-stop 8 hours a day, 6 days per week with just 2 weeks leave each year (=300 days),
it would take almost five years to reach 50 million actuations of the "e" switch.
I guess the typist would fail before the switch does

[collector of junk]

I know not the same type but
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321423989567? ... EBIDX%3AIT

plus he's a uk seller and sends quick (got one myself)

[kbdfr]

Yes, this is a MID board. Note that it has a 12x8 matrix.

[collector of junk]

doing a similar thing as jond keyhack but I want to keep it modular and daisy chain them so I can chose which keyboards I want to use .
may set two or three up

[jond_keyhack]

doing a similar thing as jond keyhack but I want to keep it modular and daisy chain them so I can chose which keyboards I want to use .
may set two or three up

Cool stuff. I'm ordering a soldering iron now aswell to remove the beeper and I may get the old staggered TMC from ebay so I can test out different switches later. Blacks with o rings are much better than just blacks. I think the enter and shift buttons are a little hard to press so I'm after a solution to that in the same way that kbdfr did his/hers

[collector of junk]

doing a similar thing as jond keyhack but I want to keep it modular and daisy chain them so I can chose which keyboards I want to use .
may set two or three up

Cool stuff. I'm ordering a soldering iron now aswell to remove the beeper and I may get the old staggered TMC from ebay so I can test out different switches later. Blacks with o rings are much better than just blacks. I think the enter and shift buttons are a little hard to press so I'm after a solution to that in the same way that kbdfr did his/hers

as for the beeper you can switch it off in the software "I think"

[jond_keyhack]

as for the beeper you can switch it off in the software "I think"

It doesn't allow it for pre=programmed keys/

[kbdfr]

ChangeMe key click.jpg (56.82 KiB) Viewed 5550 times

Now guess what you could do...