Tipro model is this single layer pcb ?

[jond_keyhack]

Hi I'm just wandering if the Tipro POS keyboards are single layer pcb mounted so that I could remove the black cherry mx keys and replace them with brown cherry mx or red or green etc ..

I have a tipro pos at the moment but going to get another one because I really prefer the black cherry mx to the blue which I am currently typing on - I can't get used to this and the noise is only appreciated when looking at the keys I find.

I think the cherry mx has a nicer touch

there is a youtube video of someone replacing the cherry mx bleu with red and he explains this is inly possible with single layer pcb and not dual layer like ducky and other heavier keyboards..I will try find the video.

I am going to sell this duck y that I am currently typing on the achieve this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLBXxzmuA_Q

[collector of junk]

most if not all the tipro and access is pos boards i've got are plate mounted you could try changing the springs and or the stems on pcb mounted keyboards to maybe get a better feel

[Muirium]

Indeed. I think you mean PCB mount vs. plate mount. Plate mounted keyboards are much harder to swap switches in. And my Tipro is plate mount MX black.

[jond_keyhack]

yeh i just tried removing the black cherry mx using that tweezer method and indeed it is plate mounted. Ive decided to stick with my tipro and this ducky cherry mx blue for now and give it another a little while longer. I might try some lubrication and padded 0 ring alternative ( link to come)

can you even lubricate plate mounted keys :s

If there is a pcb mounted pos out there that would indeed be awesome - does anyone know of one. I am unsure too as to whether the changemen software with tipro could be run as two application or if I'd have to use some third party software to run another pos keyboard. Still, I think two pos keyboard one mixed with matrix and staggered would just be awesome.

this is my current setup but I think it would be so much beter with another pos instead of the ducky

so I guess Im after a pcb mounted pos ( if they exist ) so I can try the mx brown . reds , greens and whitres before making a final decision but I definately prefer the mx black over the blue in terms of feel. Any suggestions?

[IvanIvanovich]

If you want a PCB mount board I suggest to keep an eye on ebay for Cherry G80 models. They come up for cheap quite often like this ones... and it even has some very nice doubleshot keycap too. It's probably browns and is partially programmable.

[kbdfr]

I just don't understand why you are asking what the Tipro ChangeMe software can or cannot do.
You can download it free of charge if you haven't yet, and find out by yourself.

And of course you can chain Tipro keyboards, several of them if needed.
You can even mount them together to have them behave a a single keyboard:



This one is a staggered MID series Tipro with a 8x8 matrix keyboard on either side,
you can do the same with their KMX series (I think 7bit has staggered Tipro KMX boards for sale).

[jond_keyhack]

cool I think I might try and copy above setup .. are those MID series pcb mounted or plate mounted?

I know changeme is free I have it but just haven't got round to testing it yet.. that is good news that you can mount them together

if the above is pcb mounted I might try and replicate that above setup .. any other ideas ??

[jond_keyhack]

If you want a PCB mount board I suggest to keep an eye on ebay for Cherry G80 models. They come up for cheap quite often like this ones... and it even has some very nice doubleshot keycap too. It's probably browns and is partially programmable.

thanks but I really dont like that model .. I much prefer the white background on the keyboards and I don't want to spray paint anything. I also dont like those huge gaps between the keys. I hope those MID types are pcb mountable


everyone needs a big enter button

[Muirium]

My Tipro is a MID (a 16x8 version of Kbdfr's square ones) and it is plate mount.

[jond_keyhack]

My Tipro is a MID (a 16x8 version of Kbdfr's square ones) and it is plate mount.

oh thats bad news - are these always cherry mx blacks the pos typically? '',

actually I think mx blacks are quite good but Id just really like to test brown , reds, green whites etc on a pcb without breaking the bank


also my belkin n52te is starting to look lame on my desk as I dont really game anymore. I might look into having a central pos with staggered like your mid , my kmx series pos above it like in my picture and then two ergo dox's either side (hopefully pcb) of my central staggered pos



wow thats was really a light bulb moment hehe..

yeh I definately might do that or go with the 8x8 mounted either side mid or kmx series..

two questions Id need answering :

mid series vs kmx series number of programmable layers?

do ergodox's have layers of programming and what software do people use with them , as far as Im aware they're privately made '', ?


I will probably end up getting a soldering iron though - probably end up reverting a mid tipro staggered in the centre to a blue cherry mx knowing me and changing my decision as to the cherry blues once again, they are o ringed though on this ducky , meh

does anyone know the answer to my questions or have any other cool suggestions ? thx guys

[Muirium]

The ErgoDox is completely open source. And I suspect it supports a ton of layers, but I don't have one so you'll need better advice.

From what little I know about Tipros, I think they are all plate mount MX black. But Kbdfr is the Tipro Man and knows at least 128 times as much as me!

[kbdfr]

[…] mid series vs kmx series number of programmable layers?

Let me mumble-grumble off-topic first:

Spoiler:

I may be quite old-fashioned, but I like it when people speak and write in a way I can understand at once.
Building correct sentences and using punctuation is of great help.

And now to your question:
Tipro's MID and KMX series both have 8x4, 8x8, 8x12 and 8x16 matrix units and also staggered units (those only in ANSI, by the way - mine is modified).
Tipro discontinued their MID series, but as such professional keyboards are pretty expensive, it's second-hand stuff we are considering anyway.

Tipro's staggered units are slightly non-standard, by the way, although in a different way for the MID and the KMX series.
- In MID keyboards the Enter key is 2 units wide (instead of the standard 2.25) and the key immediately left of it is 1.25 (here again mine is modified, thanks again to CeeSA for his splendid work).
- In KMX keyboards each row is staggered exactly by 0.5 unit from the one above it (instead of the standard 0.25 for the ASDF row).
In both cases Tipro obviously did not want any key to be wider than 2 units.

And Muirium is right, Tipro keyboards are always plate-mounted.

[jond_keyhack]

[…] mid series vs kmx series number of programmable layers?

Let me mumble-grumble off-topic first:
.

Sorry about that. It sounds then like the KMX series have slightly larger spacing. Im concerned about the programmable macro levels should I choose a MID series over a KMX. Do they have they same number of layers of programming ( 4 I believe) ?

I very much like the white setup you have with your MIDs so I am very much considering a similar setup to yourself!

I think I would be much better with blacks over cherry mx blues and I can't see the smaller spacings being a general problem.

As for the single layer pcb and testing out the browns, blues and reds / whites etc - I may order a cheap pcb board and venture into custom ergodoces at a later stage. I wouldn't know where to begin in making a custom POS style matrix layout board of a pcb form whereby I could test the different cherry mx colours without soldering - however I'll have a good look on the internet in the time being.

Do they by default have a german keyboard layout or could I switch to English quite easily? Finally could I run these through an external usb 3.0 or 2.0 port? I need to advertise on some forums and search European ebay .

Your setup looks great by the way - definitely easy on the eye

I can't find anything on ebay and I don't want anything with a card swipe area. Can I just buy your system ?

I will message 7 bit though and I will look into trying the same with KMX series. However I think I'm best suited to keep my KMX a little raised above a virtually identical setup to yours ..

[collector of junk]

don't know if this is any help but I got a access pos board and converted it to a standard layout

also have a look at my (on/off project) only got so far with it !
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/a-ba ... t7222.html

[collector of junk]

I just don't understand why you are asking what the Tipro ChangeMe software can or cannot do.
You can download it free of charge if you haven't yet, and find out by yourself.

And of course you can chain Tipro keyboards, several of them if needed.
You can even mount them together to have them behave a a single keyboard:



This one is a staggered MID series Tipro with a 8x8 matrix keyboard on either side,
you can do the same with their KMX series (I think 7bit has staggered Tipro KMX boards for sale).

saw that keyboard a couple of years ago and fell in love with it (one of the reasons I started collecting keyboards)

[jond_keyhack]

@collector of junk

I know it is gorgeous - I would actually lick it everyday. The only thing I have seen close to one of those boards is this here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Assyst-POS-Prog ... 257b10a25a I don't know why I have it stuck in my mind that ps/2 is no good for layering. I think I read that somewhere a while ago although it could've been in reference to Tipros only. edit: I remember the ps2 is only good for programming in windows xp. Not sure about virtual windows XP though




The overall size is so much neater and smaller than the KMX series

@kndfr How customized are they as in :- did they arrive white and what generous fellow sold you them may I ask?

Are they all USB?

Actually since 7bit has a PS2 KMX staggered I might get that then I could always spray paint it (them) later white and hold out for a KMX 8x8.

Actually I imagine because of the size difference that KMX series 8x8 a staggered and a 16x8 would be about an 8x8 size board larger width ways on my desk than kbdfr's MID setup. That is a shame



I wish I could get that Tipro with the big enter key - is that how it is modified from this as the default board ? https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_mayhem/8079527449/

[collector of junk]

it maybe of no use but ??? he's selling a tipro

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t8002.html

[jond_keyhack]

it maybe of no use but ??? he's selling a tipro

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t8002.html

Hi thanks yes the MID looks very nice as does the one on ebay. I guess I would be almost there should there be a ps2 MID staggered appear somewhere.

I am using 64 bit windows 7 and fully aware that to program this I'd have to boot into windows xp first. I know the threadhere http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/prog ... 3-150.html but should I tipro MID with USB exist I'd be in a much safer position. Do they actually exist ? '', or is it just the KMX series matrix ones that have the usb default connectivity.

Can you program the ps2 ones in linux or windows xp virtual box through changeme with the ps2 connector or adapter

I've also see this here http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kassentastatur-T ... 4864d64788

[collector of junk]

it maybe of no use but ??? he's selling a tipro

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t8002.html

Hi thanks yes the MID looks very nice as does the one on ebay. I guess I would be almost there should there be a ps2 MID staggered appear somewhere.

I am using 64 bit windows 7 and fully aware that to program this I'd have to boot into windows xp first. I know the threadhere http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/prog ... 3-150.html but should I tipro MID with USB exist I'd be in a much safer position. Do they actually exist ? '', or is it just the KMX series matrix ones that have the usb default connectivity.

Can you program the ps2 ones in linux or windows xp virtual box through changeme with the ps2 connector or adapter

I've also see this here http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kassentastatur-T ... 4864d64788

doesn't windows 7 pro have a xp mode ?
only just started "playing" with Linux and virtual box and there's wine for Linux too (I got eve online to run in Linux+wine)

[jond_keyhack]

doesn't windows 7 pro have a xp mode ?
only just started "playing" with Linux and virtual box and there's wine for Linux too (I got eve online to run in Linux+wine)

yeh I am pretty sure this is the solution - unless obviously a USB tipro MID actually exists

[kbdfr]

Answers to your last questions (as far as I could identify/understand them):

• "Spacing": switch spacing is identical (and standard: 19mm) in MID and KMX series. The keyboards themselves have different widths, KMX being wider than MID.
• MID and KMX series both have 4 programming layers.
• German vs. English layout: you must differentiate between what is printed on the keycaps and what the keyboard actually does.
  You can have any keycaps on any keyboard, but this will not influence what the keyboard actually does, as keyboards do not have any (internal) national layout, but send "signals" to the computer, which interprets them according to the national setting of the computer itself. So if you connect a (e.g.) Polish keyboard to a computer running (e.g.) the Spanish Windows version, your keyboard behaves as a Spanish keyboard even if it has Polish caps.
• USB vs. PS/2: Tipro keyboards have a controller which can be easily removed (without any soldering) and swapped. MID controllers exist in three variants: with a built-in PS/2 cable, with a socket for a detachable PS/2 cable, with a built-in USB cable. USB controllers, though, are not compatible with older Tipro MID PCBs (older than 2002 or so, Tipro say).
• Card reading unit: Tipro keyboards are highly modular, i.e. you can add or remove any unit without any soldering. They are held together by a plastic "joiner" and connected by a small internal cable connected to both PCBs. So if you buy a used keyboard that has a card reader you don’t need, removing it is a matter of a screwdriver and 3 minutes.
• Programming 1: programming is possible only under Windows (up to Windows 7), but as the configuration is stored in the keyboard itself:
  - once programmed a keyboard will work with any operating system and
  - there is no need to have the software installed to use the keyboard
• Programming 2: Tipro PS/2 controllers can be programmed only with a 32-bit system (Windows XP or Windows 7, but I think the software should also work under Windows 8).
• Programming 3: Programming requires a native PS/2 socket, an adapter between the keyboard and the computer will prevent the software from identifying the keyboard. Once programmed, Tipro keyboards work with any OS and virtually any adapters (tested with a MID: PS/2 > DIN > PS/2 > USB).
• Big enter key: on my keyboard not the keyboard itself has been modified, but the keycap.
  Explanation: the original (horizontal, C row) Enter key sits on two switches, only the left one being active (i.e. in fact programmed as the Enter key) and the right one being inactive, having no spring and merely serving as a stabilizer. To make it an ISO Enter key (what you call "big enter key"), the (D row) upper switch is programmed as the Enter key, the right lower (C row) switch is still used as a stabilizer and the left lower (C row) switch is programmed according to the national layout used (e.g. µ* for French layout, '# for German layout).
  The stems of the Enter keycap have been modified to fit the location of the switches.

Any more questions, just ask

[jond_keyhack]

cool , awesome, amazing, erm. Which versions of the MID have the usb controller ? Are there any popping about online?

By controller usb or ps/2 do you mean the cable is external? So programming only works (for MID) with a native (internal) ps/2 socket? I was under the impression I could program my tipro through the usb and not have to link up the ps/2 cable to it.

In any case is there some information elsewhere about replacing the sockets or as to the whereabouts of a MID (model number) post 2002 that has a usb power socket / controller.


My tipro KMX has an external usb but I have just noticed that there are two power points for usb connections and a ps/2 socket. They could be usb 2.0 so I could charge my phone on them or even sync data. chuffed

[kbdfr]

There is already an answer to most of your question in my previous post

[…] Which versions of the MID have the usb controller ?

Obviously those with a USB plug. Please read my previous post under "USB vs. PS/2"

Are there any popping about online?

Never saw one.

By controller usb or ps/2 do you mean the cable is external? So programming only works (for MID) with a native (internal) ps/2 socket? I was under the impression I could program my tipro through the usb and not have to link up the ps/2 cable to it.

Please read my previous post under "USB vs. PS/2"

In any case is there some information elsewhere about replacing the sockets […]

Replacing the sockets

[…] or as to the whereabouts of a MID (model number) post 2002 that has a usb power socket / controller.

Please read my previous post under "USB vs. PS/2"
Tipro MID keyboards usually have a label with a serial number where the first 4 digits are the year of production.

My tipro KMX has an external usb but I have just noticed that there are two power points for usb connections and a ps/2 socket. They could be usb 2.0 so I could charge my phone on them or even sync data. chuffed

Don’t know what "power points for usb connections" are meant to be, but the PS/2 socket surely is NOT for connection to the computer. Instead this is where you plug a standard keyboard (e.g. for direct programming purposes). In other words: it is for input, not for output.

[Muirium]

For what it's worth, my 2004-made PS/2 Tipro MID has no swappable controller, it's all integrated into the PCB.

[kbdfr]

For what it's worth, my 2004-made PS/2 Tipro MID has no swappable controller, it's all integrated into the PCB.

You’re right, those also exist.

[Vierax]

Another restriction is that MID can't be reprogrammed under a virtual Windows running through another OS like GNU/Linux. Same thing with Wine.

[kbdfr]

Another restriction is that MID can't be reprogrammed under a virtual Windows running through another OS like GNU/Linux. Same thing with Wine.

I would rather say it’s not a restriction, it’s a feature
After all, they are point of sale keyboards originally meant to be programmed once and for all
and then connected to a POS system.

[jond_keyhack]

is this MID?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tipro-Digipos ... 1c3fe696ab

I can't tell and why does the seller say its black when it is clearly white. I am still unsure of what a controller is but I will post a picture of my kmx 2006 ports soon to gain some understanding

when the seller says , ''Available with PS2 Controller or without controller to connect to other MID range keyboard with a controller.''

does that mean you can replace the controller with usb or a ps/2 to usd adapter or cable with adapter. Sorry if I am skipping through knowledge posted I'm just trying to gain as much insight as possible.

Could one in theory connect a tipro to two pc's : one with usb the other ps/2 or both with ps/2 and they both be recognizable ..

I missed this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tipro-Digipos ... 7675.l2557

but I still haven't seen any post 2006 MID models with usb - sorry If I sound a pain to anyone.

this is the back of my tipro kmx usb

I think this (see below) is KMX can anyone confirm? is says in description that it has trackball and mouse keys but no picture of that. These later models see expensive because they most likely are out of the box programmable with windows 7 possibly 64 bit. As for post 2006 KMX and MID matrix boards only I have only seen then new without a professional picture. But I can only assume as kdbfr stated earlier that the newer ones have usb connections or 'power' connections as I put it for the usb data cable.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tipro-Free-48 ... 4ac9941465

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tipro-Point-S ... 3389beb6ef

they're a bit out my price range though

[jond_keyhack]

thanks I just have a few questions:

where can I get other controllers and how would I know if they're cross compatible?

why are there two ps/2 ports on this tipro MID?

Have I any chance of swapping an old tipro mid to use a newer controller with usb?

what type of adapter or cable should I use?

[Vierax]

thanks I just have a few questions:

where can I get other controllers and how would I know if they're cross compatible?

IDK

why are there two ps/2 ports on this tipro MID?

The non standard 8pins mini DIN is to connect to the computer, the other (the classic 6-pin mini-DIN ) is a passthrough to connect another keyboard.

Have I any chance of swapping an old tipro mid to use a newer controller with usb?

For that, you have to mod it with a Teensy+handwiring. It's a project that some of us have in plans.

what type of adapter or cable should I use?

you need a special cable with 6pins on one side and 8pins on the other. BUT since the two pins in the middle aren't really used, you can buy a standard male/male PS/2 cable and remove the plastic pin inside one of the connector. Just be sure to plug it in the appropriate port.