Left-handed tenkeyless idea

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I am not sure that I'll ever be able to learn to use a 60%, but I can't give up having such a small keyboard :(

This is my current theory for an optimum design for me:

LH-TKL.png (130.19 KiB) Viewed 8398 times

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... 7f1f43d466

• Backlit, because it's funky (useless, but I like it for some reason), and using Cherry RGB switches because I'm too lazy to simulate rubbish backlighting in Photoshop
• TKL as a compromise size, but with the navigation cluster on the left, to bring the mouse closer
• Vintage two-tone applied to the LEDs
• Obviously, Cherry stabilisers inside!

No idea on switches — Alps green sounds the best bet, and that would even make the LEDs possible, albeit without even backlighting. And yes, there are keyboards with keycaps that take Alps switches and Cherry stabilisers:

Mixed mount.jpg (88.57 KiB) Viewed 8398 times

This will never exist, so I'm just going to stick out suffering with a Poker II forever as I love the space savings even if it's a complete headache to use.

PS 1: Note that the blue legends should be actual blue LED colour, but since it's impossible on a computer screen to show any colour with an intensity more than white, the blue shade used is only an approximation. In reality, white does not exist (hold up a sheet of white paper against a computer screen) and black is hard to perceive due to your eye's noise floor. Black is likewise just a term of convenience for a range of dark greys, since it's possible to cast a shadow on a black object.

PS 2: I forgot to centre a load of the legends :(

[scottc]

I actually think I have seen something like this before.

http://www.amazon.com/DSI-Left-Handed-K ... B0009S52X8

It's not quite the same - most notably, it's full-sized and has a terrible big-ass enter. It uses "high-quality blue mechanical switches", but that could mean anything.

MechanicalKeyboards seem to have the same with red Cherry MX:

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/ind ... etail&p=25

Could be interesting, though.

--

Edit: If I were to do this, I'd probably go with this layout just for the sake of it:


http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... ec24c98437

(I didn't copy your two-tone LED layout due to laziness)

You could then turn the navigation area into a pseudo-numpad if desired.

It would actually not be too difficult to create a plate for this keyboard - it's probably doable by just moving the Phantom design around a bit. The PCB would be more difficult, but also quite doable.

Edit 2: It might be easier to use keyboard-layout-editor rather than Photoshop for the mockups. It is for me, but then again I'm not too familiar with Photoshop.

Edit 3: The "[WTS] old keyboards" thread has a load of Zenith keyboards with green ALPS, so if you want to harvest switches from somewhere it might be worth looking into...

[Muirium]

A custom by Daniel: that's something I want to see!

What's your rationale for ditching the numpad? Could you be a symmetry fascist like me! The general idea with leftie keyboards is to reclaim your mouse space without compromising anything else in the layout.



I loathe a far-off-centred keyboard on my desk, even if I don't have a cup of coffee or a trackpad on the left. But I'm every bit as batty about symmetry as you can imagine…

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What's your rationale for ditching the numpad?

60% is the size I'm after, but having to reach for Fn just to whack a function key, or calculate complex press-release sequences of Fn between other modifiers, is just nuts. (If you hold Fn at the wrong time on a Poker II you switch modes unexpectedly, such as WASD to arrows, which is exacerbated by some of its modes not having LED indicators; for complex sequences of ctrl, shift and alt, you need to press and release Fn at critical points all the way through, and that's more than my little brain can make sense out of, so I just grab the mouse, which is now in a very convenient position. I also have real trouble remembering where anything is on a Poker II, even after six months of using it all day at work, and the front legends are not lit properly by the rear LEDs — the KBP V60 is one of the rare keyboards that orientates the switches properly to optimise LED coverage.)

The numpad, num lock aside, comprises entirely duplicate keys. Since my objective is to conserve desk space and bring the mouse closer, the numpad may as well go. TKL is nice, but I figured, why not move it to the left? No use at home, as there's literally no table to the left of ctrl (that corner of my keyboard overhangs the table).

Edit 2: It might be easier to use keyboard-layout-editor rather than Photoshop for the mockups.

I did. I primarily used Photoshop to get the LED glow effect, on a screenshot taken of the layout editor.

[Findecanor]

Most backlit Cherry MX keyboards have the legends top/centred because the switches are facing upwards. The keys with two symbols on them, such as the numeric row then often then get very ugly and non-standard.

However, it is perfectly possible to mount a Cherry MX switch facing left. I'd like to see a backlit keyboard that does that and keeps the layout of the legends on each key relatively standard.

And yes, there are keyboards with keycaps that take Alps switches and Cherry stabilisers:

I think there are more that take Alps switches and Costar stabilisers with Alps-like inserts. Just use the universal mounting hole shape that supports both Cherry and Costar.

I actually think I have seen something like this before.

I stumbled over pictures yesterday of a left-handed ANSI tenkeyless: KBT K87E.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That page goes back over a year, too. I guess it's not an idea that's going to catch on, let alone be anything close to what I had in mind. I was also expecting a nice edgy angular case like a Minila/KUL/WASD V2.

[Muirium]

Matteo's CNC could be your ticket to the design you like. We're heading into interesting times for custom keyboards.

The thing is, when people do make a custom of their own, they typically fall in love with their design and push on through to get as close to it as possible in material reality at the end. I know this story first hand. You become your own best advocate, determined to reach the finish. There's always upsets and a challenge. I'm intrigued by the prospect that you could try something like that. Could it bring out a steely optimism, I wonder? Curious thought…

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I think the wiki dissolved whatever was left of my enthusiasm.

[sad_destroyer]

Hey guys (Daniel Beardsmore), I think I'm working on something you'd be interested in.

https://github.com/johnfonte/virulent
I'm upgrading my keyboard design and adding the PCB hardware routing for left-handed TK, TKL, or my custom 5x5 macro pad (seen in picture).
Below is a prototype of the new design (controller placement not yet finalized).
The new design will be controlled by a Teensy 2.0++, and be single-color backlit/fully programmable.
I'm also looking to improve my process by adding a case similar in construction to matt3o, or jdcarpe of GH.
Funny coincidence as well, i'm helping matt3o with PCB design so there's a possibility of a collaboration sometime soon.

The point of my revamped design will be to allow numerous combinations of left-handed keyboard layouts, where each person can mix and match the placement of the switches to a maximal degree.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Does it come with a small office worth of floor tiles that don't let you build up static on your shoes? :((

I'd love a metal keyboard at work (black dyed anodised alu would be ace), but the static shocks would drive me round the bend.

[Findecanor]

Whoa!

There is another idea that has come up for discussion now and again, but not really taken off. It is of a full-sized keyboard where each section of keys could be broken off to TKL, 77%, 60%, and then reconnected with a ribbon cable. I see no reason why it shouldn't also be possible to mix the parts in various ways to, for instance put a numpad next to Return on the right or the numpad on the left.

[sad_destroyer]

Does it come with a small office worth of floor tiles that don't let you build up static on your shoes? (

I'd love a metal keyboard at work (black dyed anodised alu would be ace), but the static shocks would drive me round the bend.

Haha, you could cut acrylic for yours if that worries you.
The plate design is really what matters, after that the material can be up to preference.
Vinyl wrapping is also an option.

[sad_destroyer]

Whoa!

There is another idea that has come up for discussion now and again, but not really taken off. It is of a full-sized keyboard where each section of keys could be broken off to TKL, 77%, 60%, and then reconnected with a ribbon cable. I see no reason why it shouldn't also be possible to mix the parts in various ways to, for instance put a numpad next to Return on the right or the numpad on the left.

That's an interesting idea, and I know exactly how I could structure the PCB for that.
However, the problem comes with casing - will each piece have separate cases? Will we be designing plates for multiple PCB amalgamations? How structurally and electrically sound will a ribbon cable connection be over time?

[jacobolus]

This will never exist, so I'm just going to stick out suffering with a Poker II forever as I love the space savings even if it's a complete headache to use.

Why not? What’s your budget? I think this is quite achievable if you’re willing to spend, say, $200–300 on the project, and maybe get your hands dirty with some assembly.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Assemble it? I would imagine that having a working keyboard would be amongst the top criteria …

[Findecanor]

However, the problem comes with casing - will each piece have separate cases? Will we be designing plates for multiple PCB amalgamations?

It would be a DIY keyboard where the target audience is people who would be willing to do some building and some modifying themselves. The big purpose is to give the DIY guys good starting points and provide them with options. Once the project is official and there is a sign-up list for the PCB, then we would see which combinations would be the most popular to provide cases and plates for.

I think that first of all the PCB should support PCB-mounted switches and stabilisers, thus making plates optional which would lower the barrier significantly to building a keyboard from it.
Then the PCB should support a few cases/plates that are popular. I think that it should at least support Filco full-size, Filco TKL and Poker, which there are already lots of cases and plates available for.

One option would be to provide a full-size plate that is cut into three parts (60%+fn, arrow/nav, tenkey) and make it so that every horizontal combination of those could be bolted together. Then, to make a left-handed TKL, you could use a third-party layered case that was made for the Filco and reverse the top layer.

[jacobolus]

Assemble it? I would imagine that having a working keyboard would be amongst the top criteria …

Okay, well what’s your budget? If someone else is going to build your dream keyboard for you, it’s probably going to cost a bit more.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I assume you're hoping that I will contradict what I wrote earlier, but no, I won't.

[hoggy]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a picture (possibly a mock up) of such a keyboard by Ducky. I'd happily buy one myself.

[sad_destroyer]

However, the problem comes with casing - will each piece have separate cases? Will we be designing plates for multiple PCB amalgamations?

It would be a DIY keyboard where the target audience is people who would be willing to do some building and some modifying themselves. The big purpose is to give the DIY guys good starting points and provide them with options. Once the project is official and there is a sign-up list for the PCB, then we would see which combinations would be the most popular to provide cases and plates for.

I think that first of all the PCB should support PCB-mounted switches and stabilisers, thus making plates optional which would lower the barrier significantly to building a keyboard from it.
Then the PCB should support a few cases/plates that are popular. I think that it should at least support Filco full-size, Filco TKL and Poker, which there are already lots of cases and plates available for.

One option would be to provide a full-size plate that is cut into three parts (60%+fn, arrow/nav, tenkey) and make it so that every horizontal combination of those could be bolted together. Then, to make a left-handed TKL, you could use a third-party layered case that was made for the Filco and reverse the top layer.

Good ideas about the structure, you have a better handle on that than I do. I'll keep this in mind, and PM you if something ends up taking shape.

[JC.]

Vortex already had one, which is called ION

IMG_2547.jpg (282.25 KiB) Viewed 8040 times

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Ugh. It's got that dreadful Pn key.

[Max]

Edit: If I were to do this, I'd probably go with this layout just for the sake of it:


http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... ec24c98437

This what I would do:

lefty.png (19.58 KiB) Viewed 8023 times

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... d778d940c2

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I forgot about stepped caps lock! Good thinking.

I didn't realise Scott had an open image upload host.

My "jewish moth trap" sketch from the other night:

[Findecanor]

Ugh. It's got that dreadful Pn key.

Then change the keycaps and pretend that the Pn key is not there. Who uses the right Windows and the Menu key anyway?

My "jewish moth trap" sketch from the other night:

Interesting. But did you know that moths play dead and fall down when they hear ultrasound, such as the sonar from a bat (moth eater)? Apparently you could make such sounds by rubbing a cork against the side of a bottle.
How about improving the moth trap with a motion detector which sets a cork-against-bottle rubber in motion... I'll file a dependent patent that references yours ...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Ugh. It's got that dreadful Pn key.

Then change the keycaps and pretend that the Pn key is not there. Who uses the right Windows and the Menu key anyway? ;)

It's worse. Pn and Fn are reversed with respect to the Poker II. For me, the Poker II has them the wrong way around, but after how long it's taken to get used to Fn being where it is, if they got reversed I'd throw it out the window in despair and disgust.

I do use right Windows *and* menu. I lock my PC with Pn+L since I'm not allowed a right Windows key. Time-to-leave-the-office is Fn+Pn+L, which shuts off the backlight and locks the PC.

I should really move to running the Pn layer permanently; since I leave my office PC on, I'd not have to keep switching Pn mode back on, and I'd get rid of the stupid idea of having both Fn and Pn.

The moth trap isn't genuinely expected to work. It was a random idea that came to mind after a comment in someone's e-mail. I just happened to have the file to hand in a background window when I realised I could just write random images onto Scott's web server.

[jacobolus]

I assume you're hoping that I will contradict what I wrote earlier, but no, I won't.

Well yeah, because what you wrote before (viz. “This will never exist”) is a totally defeatist attitude. This is not at all an unachievable dream. So either (a) you don’t really care and don’t think this idea matters (so much for “optimum design”), or (b) you’re not willing to spend any money or time to make it happen, perhaps you’re broke and completely swamped with other things to do, or similar. (Any of the above reasons is perfectly acceptable, by the way. But kind of sad.)

[jacobolus]

Anyway, while we’re here let’s just take it for granted that the project is possible and not worry about realizing it right away. Then we can try to nail down the particulars of your vision.

So Daniel, out of curiosity, do you have any desire for a Fn-type key, or any kind of custom behavior of the keyboard (macros, etc.)? Or are you just looking for exactly the layout shown in your picture at the top, with the behavior just being otherwise identical to any standard keyboard? Do you want to have any shortcuts for adjusting volume, screen brightness, etc., or “media keys”, or similar? (For example, personally I think carving out the rightmost 1u of the right shift and turning it into a fn key is a much better use of that space than just leaving the standard 2.75u shift.)

Would you want a solenoid in there for optional extra click? (Green Alps don’t give too much tactile/audio feedback.) Do you want Green Alps for the feeling or just for the LED potential? (e.g. maybe Matias quiet or clicky switches would work too since they have transparent shells so an LED underneath would shine through – or maybe you’re looking for linear switches). I think to get that many green Alps switches with LEDs in them is going to take drilling through the bottom housings, but that’s certainly not an insurmountable problem, if green Alps is truly what you want.

Do you have any preferences about keycap profile? (Cylindrical? Spherical? Tall? Short?) Also, beyond just the keycaps, would you want any height differences across the main keys of the keyboard? Perhaps some extra height on the F keys? (Personally I find that raising them up by a few mm and bringing them fairly close in to the number row makes them much easier to reach.)

What typeface do you want on your keycaps? (I’m assuming pixelated Arial in your diagram is just for convenience, and not actually your preference)

What kind of material would you want the case to be made out of? Would layered acrylic cut it, or would you prefer wood / plastic / metal? What kind of feet would you want, if any, and what kind of angle should the switches be at when the board is sitting flat on the table?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all.

[Muirium]

GAME OVER

Thanking you for the playing.