The Keyboardio Model 01 is now on Kickstarter

[jesse]

It's taken...a lot longer than we ever imagined, but we're thrilled to announce that the Model 01 is now available for preorder.

http://keyboard.io/kickstarter

[gogusrl]

Looks interesting but they should have offered a kit as well without keycaps or switches. ALPS support would have been nice as well to make it a true contender to the ergodox.

[Muirium]

We are also supposed to bitch about Kickstarter and European shipping / taxes. Because that's what kills so much stuff there, here.

Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.

[jesse]

@gogusrl - We' may offer a kit later on, but first we wanted to actually ship fully working keyboards to folks. (Though the fully working keyboards do use Matias ALPS switches

@Muirium - We're planning to use a shipper that has a European warehouse. With luck, the shipping rates we've got in there for you won't be too terrifyingly crazy.

[jbondeson]

Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.

The UK was opened up in late 2012. Nederlands opened last year, but I don't know about the rest of Europe at this point. I know I've run into a few since the Euro as donation denomination is a dead giveaway

[Muirium]

Good stuff. All the keyboard projects I see linked still happen to be American.


@Jesse: What costs us BAD over here is import taxes. If your stuff ships from outside Europe, it's seized as it enters, gets charged 20% tax of the declared value, often *including shipping* (or if they think you lied, 20% of whatever they reckon the whole thing should be worth) and then a processing fee is added on top here in Britain that can easily take the tax to 40% or higher. Don't pay, and you'll never get it.

I've been hit with a full doubling of price a couple of times now. And then, yes, don't forget about shipping. It's all a horrible, expensive mess. Vanishes when things are dispatched from within Europe. Well, vanishes for us. Your partner gets hit instead!

[jesse]

Understood. I've been trying to update the KS site to say that we're not including/covering VAT, but their site is busted. :/)

[Muirium]

Good idea. Hopefully most people from Europe visiting Kickstarter already know what to factor in. But we all start as newbs. The first time I got the ransom note I was pissed off and perplexed all at once.

[XMIT]

Nice work, Jesse. Of the entire effort I think the custom key caps are the most impressive.

[Khers]

Really impressive! Almost makes me want an RGB backlit keyboard... Not bad!

[Miko]

We are also supposed to bitch about Kickstarter and European shipping / taxes. Because that's what kills so much stuff there, here.

Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.

The german version of Kickstarter launched about two weeks ago.

[XMIT]

Jesse and I had a nice e-mail thread that he allowed me to share with you here. (It turns out Jesse and I have some common friends, and, maybe I'll get to meet him when he is passing through Austin next weekend.)

Things in quotes are my questions, with his answers inline...

A few quick questions for you, sorry if this is too late in the game:

- why a homing bump mid-key (AEK II style) and not a homing ridge (e.g. Topre and others, my preference)?

So far, we've found the homing bump seems to work better. We'll try bars again before we make a final call.

- is your PCB design also compatible with Cherry switches? Awesome if it is, sad if it’s not. I concur that Matias Quiet Click is nice (Alps Salmon is nicer) but being locked into Alps switches is mildly annoying.

The final PCB design may or may not be compatible with MX switches, but the plates we ship will be ALPS-only. We may someday do a rev that takes MX switches, but we....can only do so much at a time.

- related question - will you offer a Cherry MX mount for your key sets?
- what is your final key cap material? PBT is my preference, or a PBT/POM doubleshot for backlit legends. From the photos it looks like you have selected POM?

What you see in the photos is actually polycarbonate. We can't feel the engraving while typing, though to do it right, we'll want to put another clear coating on _top_ of the laser-engraved layer.

- your site mentions laser engraving of keys. Will you fill this engraving? Can you feel the engraving while typing? This is one of my pet peeves with engraved keys and why I prefer double shot or dye sublimated keys, clearly not an option here.

The problems with going to doubleshots are twofold: first up, doing one-off custom legends becomes almost impossible. Second, it's a _lot_ more expensive.

Thanks for your hard work, and perhaps I’ll back your already well funded Kickstarter.

Thanks so much for writing. These are all important issues we'll be sorting out as we move forward.

[Findecanor]

WTF... The screwdriver ships to US only.

Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.

Kung Fury was Swedish. But maybe they did some legal trick.

[ramnes]

By looking at the video, one of the main idea is to tell "this keyboard will last for your entire life". So please use PBT key caps!

Anyway, good job, wish you all the best.

[bhtooefr]

Kickstarter doesn't really care where you run from, as long as you have a bank account in the country that you're claiming to be from (for the payments to work with Amazon Payments properly), IIRC.

[Muirium]

Fair enough. It's not Kickstarter's fault that so many projects are taxbait. It's our bloody European customs!

I'd write to my MEP. But I can't afford the bung to make it worth their time.

[kbdfr]

[…] our bloody European customs! […]

Customs protect national economies. In fact, paying customs contributes to securing one's own job.

Take a product manufactured in country A with a material and technology cost of $10 and a wage component of another $10, amounting to production costs of $20 per unit.
If in country B where wages are very low the wage component for manufacturing the same product is only $1, the production costs will amount to of $11 per unit.
So country A will decide to apply customs of $9 per such product imported from country B.
If it didn't, its national producer, not being able to compete, would have to close - and dismiss its staff.

This, of course, is just a simplified theoretical example

[Muirium]

I understand protectionism (which I oppose anyway, and globalisation is doing well to destroy outright) but I don't understand it when it's used on products that are far from commodities. We're talking about Kickstarter (and the like) here, which is all about niche, and often unique stuff. How does that hurt businesses at home?

The only effect our stupid customs has here is reducing European participation in innovative Kickstarters and the like. And filling the pockets of monopolists like Parcelforce in Britain (who demand unnegotiable fees above the tax claim) when we do!

[iandoug]

[…] our bloody European customs! […]

Take a product manufactured in country A with a material and technology cost of $10 and a wage component of another $10, amounting to production costs of $20 per unit.
If in country B where wages are very low the wage component for manufacturing the same product is only $1, the production costs will amount to of $11 per unit.
So country A will decide to apply customs of $9 per such product imported from country B.
If it didn't, its national producer, not being able to compete, would have to close - and dismiss its staff.

We've had similar policies here. Then the local company goes bust anyway, meaning no local manufacturer, but no, they don't lower the import duty. So in effect the citizens are punished for nothing.

It's even worse when large corporates persuade governments to impose duties so that the price of the import matches their own locally-inflated prices... effectively meaning they have no price competition.

[chzel]

Customs protect national economies. In fact, paying customs contributes to securing one's own job.

Customs could/should protect national economies.
I believe that in most countries they are just a way to make money and plug some deficits in other parts of the budget.
What you are describing is basically anti-dumping duties and they should be on a per product basis.
There is no reason for a product that is made in the USA (or anywhere outside EU) for comparable cost to have it's price increased by import duties. Especially if it is not locally produced, or competing with a local product.
What product does Germany or UK or Greece have that needs protection against lets say a PS4 or XBOX?

Edit: I should have read Mu's post! We are saying the same thing!

[Muirium]

And I edited your post so kbdfr's line defending customs was correctly attributed to him, not me. I think customs are very almost morally criminal, the way we're charged them on everything, no matter whether those things are even made here!

[chzel]

I fucked up the quote tag, didn't I?
Thanks!

[cookie]

Nice work jesse, I highly respect the work and effort you've put in!
But I think that the larger part of people who is looking for such a split type of ergonomic keyboard will rather go for an ErgoDox than this one.

I can speak only for my self but when I see caps with backlit support I instantly lose interest in such a keyboard. Because I am going to swap them anyways, they add zero value to the product. Ans as I see the caps are not standarized, which may be smart for ergonomic purposes but it will be painfull to get replacement caps

I don't wan't to be the killjoy, sorry if I am.
Wish you all the best luck and success for your product.