Data General Dasher replica

facetsesame · 06 Jul 2015, 23:47

I've noticed row 3 backslash and pipe is missing (maybe that key should just be available in all rows, including a space bar). And now I've just noticed we'd need a 2 unit shift to complete support for MX11900s. I'm going to look into Tipro support too.

What else is wrong, wrong, wrong?

OleVoip · 07 Jul 2015, 01:55

facetsesame wrote: ↑What else is wrong, wrong, wrong?

Backspace ("BS") is missing; RUB OUT is an alias for DEL, not for BS. When DG boards have RUB OUT, they never have DEL, but there are boards that have both, BS and RUB OUT (or BS and DEL).

SL89 · 07 Jul 2015, 05:14

Is its sculpted btw, or all Row 3?

Have planck / JD40 / hypermicro layouts been checked for?

Sculpting usually messes up those and layouts like 1800 because the rows get messed up

morkl · 09 Jul 2015, 00:25

I just won an auction for one of the smaller Dasher boards with the blue colour scheme. Unfortunately, I got distracted in the end of the accompanying D400 terminal auction from the same seller and messed up my bid.

I'll post pictures as soon as the keyboard has arrived and I'm back home from my vacation.

I've seen the D100 and D200 mentioned in this thread, but these auctions and the front of the D400/D450 manual imply that the D400 and D450 came with the blue-on-blue-on-blue keyboards as well.

spopepro · 10 Jul 2015, 05:43

I'd still like a photo to take a close look at legends. The one that sticks out to me is the numerical "3" which would be really nice to have made right.

I'm also digging into 3d parametric modeling programs (damn, do they work differently than other CAD). I successfully modeled a new turntable cover so I'm feeling confident. Which Dasher layout would be the best to replicate*?

*I don't think anyone wants the final version to be as thick/high off the desk as the original. So replicate in spirit, if not in exact dimensions.

Findecanor · 10 Jul 2015, 18:03

morkl wrote: ↑I just won an auction for one of the smaller Dasher boards with the blue colour scheme. Unfortunately, I got distracted in the end of the accompanying D400 terminal auction from the same seller and messed up my bid.

Oh that was you... I had been watching that one.

facetsesame · 14 Jul 2015, 01:58

OleVoip wrote: ↑
facetsesame wrote: ↑What else is wrong, wrong, wrong?
Backspace ("BS") is missing; RUB OUT is an alias for DEL, not for BS. When DG boards have RUB OUT, they never have DEL, but there are boards that have both, BS and RUB OUT (or BS and DEL).

Thank you! I'll get this corrected.

SL89 wrote: ↑Is its sculpted btw, or all Row 3?

Have planck / JD40 / hypermicro layouts been checked for?

Sculpting usually messes up those and layouts like 1800 because the rows get messed up

Multiple rows would be preferable, supporting the 1800 is a bit impossible with so many "numberpad" rows though. plank, JD40, hypermicro need checking - thank you!

morkl wrote: ↑I just won an auction for one of the smaller Dasher boards with the blue colour scheme. Unfortunately, I got distracted in the end of the accompanying D400 terminal auction from the same seller and messed up my bid.

I'll post pictures as soon as the keyboard has arrived and I'm back home from my vacation.

I've seen the D100 and D200 mentioned in this thread, but these auctions and the front of the D400/D450 manual imply that the D400 and D450 came with the blue-on-blue-on-blue keyboards as well.

Congratulations! I'll be looking forward to those pictures. I have some more colour samples too...
Thanks for the pointer on the D400/D450 - I thought there was another line of terminals before the change to beige, but hadn't spotted that.

spopepro wrote: ↑I'd still like a photo to take a close look at legends. The one that sticks out to me is the numerical "3" which would be really nice to have made right.

morkl, mr_a500, would you be up for taking some hi-res top down pics of your keys?

spopepro wrote: ↑I'm also digging into 3d parametric modeling programs (damn, do they work differently than other CAD). I successfully modeled a new turntable cover so I'm feeling confident. Which Dasher layout would be the best to replicate*?

*I don't think anyone wants the final version to be as thick/high off the desk as the original. So replicate in spirit, if not in exact dimensions.

For the keyboard itself, to date I've had the slab-with-lip form of the earlier boards in mind as the form. The key layout however is very much open. Personally I would prefer a big, 122-scale layout but I feel something smaller might be more practical.

SL89 · 15 Jul 2015, 21:13

+1 for 122

niomosy · 21 Jul 2015, 01:53

A 122 could be awesome, especially with the GH-122 looking to have stalled out.

Now we need an ergo-122 board... just because.

SL89 · 21 Jul 2015, 02:12

GH-122 will happen some day. They are only just now getting the GH60 into peoples hands...

morkl · 23 Jul 2015, 00:24

facetsesame wrote: ↑
spopepro wrote: ↑I'd still like a photo to take a close look at legends. The one that sticks out to me is the numerical "3" which would be really nice to have made right.
morkl, mr_a500, would you be up for taking some hi-res top down pics of your keys?

I'm finally back home, and I have borrowed a fancy tripod for some top-down action! This one has a different font than the D2 though.

Here's a couple of shots i snapped while goofing around with the tripod and background; more/better pictures will come when the sun is back in working order:

Spoiler:

The caps are quite yellowed, unlike the crisp blue space bar stabilizer. The sides of the caps look slightly better, and the insides are as new.

facetsesame wrote: ↑ Multiple rows would be preferable, supporting the 1800 is a bit impossible with so many "numberpad" rows though. plank, JD40, hypermicro need checking - thank you!

This model has sculpted alphas and the same profile for all the numpad and navigation keys. Perhaps going that path might make 1800 compatibility easier?

facetsesame wrote: ↑ For the keyboard itself, to date I've had the slab-with-lip form of the earlier boards in mind as the form. The key layout however is very much open. Personally I would prefer a big, 122-scale layout but I feel something smaller might be more practical.

I too prefer the slab-with-lip form, if only because it is the most distinct and recognizable one.

niomosy · 23 Jul 2015, 09:32

SL89 wrote: ↑GH-122 will happen some day. They are only just now getting the GH60 into peoples hands...

Eventually, sure. If not, hopefully someone else picks up the idea of a 122 and runs with it. It's a nice contrast from all the extreme minimalist boards out there.

morkl · 15 Sep 2015, 09:43

Gah, this totally slipped my mind. Also, the sun never came back...

So I guess I'll just dump the pictures I've got:

Spoiler:

SL89 · 15 Sep 2015, 15:19

Are the tops of these textured, like the SP DSA profile?

morkl · 15 Sep 2015, 16:03

SL89 wrote: ↑Are the tops of these textured, like the SP DSA profile?

Yep. The texture is visible in this image:

SL89 · 15 Sep 2015, 16:07

For some reason I thought they were smooth. Maybe it was just the other pictures were lacking. Thanks.

niomosy · 26 Sep 2015, 02:56

Looks like there's some additional interest for the Dasher colorway keycaps.

niomosy · 13 Oct 2015, 00:59

DG related, did anyone else notice that Dell is buying EMC? For those not aware, EMC bought Data General back in... 1999, I believe.

That would give Dell whatever IP from Data General that EMC didn't ditch. Dell seems a better company to deal with than EMC (they were pretty much crap with Data General's other stuff as they just wanted the Clariion storage and bought the entire company just for the storage).

Come to think of it, I might strike up a conversation with the Simh folks. Getting versions of AOS going would be fascinating. We could probably have some fun and tie in an Eclipse S/140 dipswitch box into a computer running Simh and have the full blown Dasher keyboard there to boot. Might be fun.

SL89 · 13 Oct 2015, 17:12

I saw that this morning in my feed Niomosy, Dell is getting back on its feet after a rather long time doing a whole lot of nothing. So who knows.

Muirium · 13 Oct 2015, 18:00

Michael Dell bought back his company a year or two ago. That's why they're waking up again. When founders leave, companies flounder until they return. Which spells trouble for Microsoft as much as Apple these days. Fortunately, Nadella and Cook are both leagues ahead of the dingalings that ran Dell while the dude himself wasn't there. Ballmer… not so much.

I wonder when he's running for president. Carly Fiorina needs a running mate. It takes a rare business talent to match her.

andrewjoy · 13 Oct 2015, 18:10

Someone should tell Michael Dell to stop putting consumer grade shit in his servers.

Muirium · 13 Oct 2015, 18:14

It's called profit.

Unlike me to defend Dell, but you know a company is doing things wrong if customers like you are completely happy. Or me. The Topre equipped MacBook Max would be a hard sell beyond the mech keyboard community! And even then, only half of us would buy it, and everyone would bitch about a million different details.

andrewjoy · 13 Oct 2015, 18:18

I have nothing against there eterprise grade laptops and desktops, i think they are good value.

Its there servers, they have crappy consumer grade chipsets in them.

HP can do it IBM can do it , oracle can do it, hell supermicro can do it. But why not dell ( and apple RIP Xserve

)

facetsesame · 18 Oct 2015, 11:49

Sorry I haven't been around for the last month or so. As ever, I can't continuously devote the amount of time and resources I'd like to to projects like this. Realistically this isn't likely to change before the new year, though I really should still make the effort to pop in and say hi!

Thanks as ever for your input and feedback. To make public thoughts I've had for months, I'd really like to see these keys in rsbseb's SCM profile, and I'd really like to help develop his project through this. As for the replica keyboard, I'd been gravitating towards two designs, one small, one big - perhaps a 60% and a 122 a few with extra bells and whistles (though I'd reserve mad scientist sci-fi prop minicomputer levels of kitting out for another project...)

morkl, your reference pics are excellent. I have one more set of SP's blue ABS colour chips I can send to you if you're up for some comparison pics.

mr_a500 · 18 Oct 2015, 14:53

morkl wrote: ↑
SL89 wrote: ↑Are the tops of these textured, like the SP DSA profile?
Yep. The texture is visible in this image:

The earlier Dashers don't have textured keycaps. They're completely smooth, like most other Key Tronic foam & foil keycaps of the era.

mr_a500 · 18 Oct 2015, 14:56

facetsesame wrote: ↑morkl, mr_a500, would you be up for taking some hi-res top down pics of your keys?

Oh crap - I missed this. Does anybody still need a top down picture?

Muirium · 18 Oct 2015, 14:58

I think so. Something to do with the precise design of the legends.

niomosy · 18 Oct 2015, 15:03

Looks like rsbseb is facing some health problems so SCM might not happen any time soon.

morkl · 18 Oct 2015, 15:10

mr_a500 wrote: ↑
facetsesame wrote: ↑morkl, mr_a500, would you be up for taking some hi-res top down pics of your keys?
Oh crap - I missed this. Does anybody still need a top down picture?

The D2 seems to have a different font than the D400. E.g straight vs. squiggly line in the Q and completely different threes and zeroes. So top down pictures for comparison/reference would be great!

facetsesame wrote: ↑morkl, your reference pics are excellent. I have one more set of SP's blue ABS colour chips I can send to you if you're up for some comparison pics.

Sure thing! Hit me up with a PM

Muirium · 18 Oct 2015, 15:14

Better off PMing Facet. He's not around much, like he said.