Blue Alps Review

[BlueBär]

Just a short review of blue Alps and a quick comparison with MX Blues and white Alps. Any criticism is appreciated!

[scottc]

Nice comparison. I'm surprised to find out that white ALPS are heavier than blues ALPS, though! I've never tried blues but I thought they'd have more oomph to them as I found whites pretty light (though I admit I was coming from buckling spring). I don't really find white ALPS too scratchy, but then again I'm also a fan of MX black which is apparently scratchy like a record player. I'm really excited to try blue ALPS out at some point so this is useful.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Officially, blue (SKCMAG) and white (SKCMAQ/SKCMCQ) are specified identically. The description of blue Alps in the video exactly matches my experience with them, and I too find that white Alps feels a bit stiffer. Blue Alps is extremely smooth.

Alps switches are loud though!

[BlueBär]

Nice comparison. I'm surprised to find out that white ALPS are heavier than blues ALPS, though! I've never tried blues but I thought they'd have more oomph to them as I found whites pretty light (though I admit I was coming from buckling spring). I don't really find white ALPS too scratchy, but then again I'm also a fan of MX black which is apparently scratchy like a record player. I'm really excited to try blue ALPS out at some point so this is useful.

I don't think white Alps are too scratchy, it's always relative, and in this case they are scratchy in comparison to the blue Alps. For example, your opinion might change once you've tried a smoother switch than MX Blacks (i.e. a lubed MX Black or a vintage MX Black). It's the same with actuation force imo.

Officially, blue (SKCMAG) and white (SKCMAQ/SKCMCQ) are specified identically. The description of blue Alps in the video exactly matches my experience with them, and I too find that white Alps feels a bit stiffer. Blue Alps is extremely smooth.

Alps switches are loud though!

Good to know! I think that bit of that extra stiffness might come from them being more scratchy.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Depends if you ask that Northgate chap. White Alps is complicated (!), as they appear to have been made in various factories in various countries, and they were modified several times in their lifetime. SKCMAQ/SKCMCQ seems to indicate a change in part number as a result of one of the changes, but the datasheet for SKCMCQ is too unclear.

[jacobolus]

No, the extra stiffness comes mainly from a different type of spring (a stiffer one). The click leaf also might differ a bit, I haven’t investigated closely. The switchplate also definitely differs a bit (i.e. the short white vs. tall gray switchplate).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That's odd — you're saying that Alps deliberately made the switch stiffer, while maintaining the same specification as before?

[Muirium]

How do Matias clicky switches compare to either of these Alps?

I have a damped clicky Matias custom project lined up for when I've recovered from these caps GBs. I like a high activation point, and a good click.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'll tell you once the Matias Tactile Pro for PC ships, in ISO ;-) (I have a feeling we may be seeing one, but I don't know for sure yet, sadly.)

[BlueBär]

How do Matias clicky switches compare to either of these Alps?

I have a damped clicky Matias custom project lined up for when I've recovered from these caps GBs. I like a high activation point, and a good click.

I have one or two Matias Clicky (not at home right now) and I can do a direct comparison in a video by soldering them into the plate (can you do that without desoldering all switches first?). How does that sound?

[jacobolus]

Matias clicky switches are quite similar to complicated white Alps switches. Their click leaf is a bit crisper than any clicky Alps switch I’ve tried though. Some of this might be due to age of the Alps switches, but I also think the Matias switches just have very well produced click leaves. If you inspect the click leaves, Matias ones look very similar to white Alps.

[Similarly, Matias quiet switches are more tactile than any tactile Alps switches I’ve used; I very much like their tactile leaves. Again it’s not clear how much of this is due to design/tooling/process and how much is due to age of the Alps switches. For a dampened switch, I like the tactile leaves from Matias quiet switches much more than the ones from dampened tactile cream/ivory Alps. The tactile leaf and spring in cream Alps are identical to the tactile leaf and spring in orange Alps switches, but I find that without nearly as much sound, the dampened switches subjectively seem less tactile. Matias switches still seem very tactile, despite their quietness.]

If you have a clicky white Alps switch that has lost a bit of its click over the years (or a tactile Alps switch that you want to turn into a clicky switch), it’s quite effective to swap in the click leaf from a Matias switch. Or likewise if you have an Alps switch which you want to be more crisply tactile, it’s quite effective to swap in the tactile leaf from a Matias quiet switch. Note that such swaps will slightly increase the required actuation force of the switch.

I also personally very much like the combination of dampened tactile cream Alps with a clicky Matias click leaf swapped in. This makes a switch which clicks at the actuation point, but not when the switch bottoms out or returns. It’s a nice weight, and very crisply tactile.

Blue Alps have a noticeably softer tactile leaf (as well as a lighter spring) than white Alps or Matias clicky switches, and the tactile leaf has a slightly different shape.

[jacobolus]

That's odd — you're saying that Alps deliberately made the switch stiffer, while maintaining the same specification as before?

I have no idea what the documented specifications were, before or after, but the white switches are definitely deliberately stiffer than the blue switches. Both the click leaf and the spring require noticeably more force in the white switches.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

As you can see on the wiki, there's a photo taken (by alps.tw) of a little bit of an Alps catalogue depicting blue and cream, and both are cited as 70 gf. All SKCM (tactile and clicky) switches in the 1994 Alps catalogue were cited as 0.686 N (69.95 gf) including SKCMAQ (white Alps). Based on the part number, data and diagrams, I'm taking SKCMCQ to be bamboo white, which is also specified the same. This may not be the case, but the datasheet doesn't give any indication that the switch is special in any way. (We're not clear on whether all Alps factories retooled to bamboo at once, but it seems that the change was made gradually, possibly starting with the cheapest factories. There is still huge uncertainty here.)

Blue and white are, from all available information, the same specification. No-one has yet been able to identify why blue and white don't quite feel the same. My suspicion remains with the actuator leaf that attaches to the switchplate but I've never tested this theory.

[jacobolus]

As you can see on the wiki, there's a photo taken (by alps.tw) of a little bit of an Alps catalogue depicting blue and cream, and both are cited as 70 gf.

Yes, this “cream” switch is lighter in color than the later dampened switches, and it is indeed about the same weight as blue Alps (or even slightly lighter maybe). HaaTa has a typewriter which uses such switches. They’re definitely noticeably lighter than orange Alps.

All SKCM (tactile and clicky) switches in the 1994 Alps catalogue were cited as 0.686 N (69.95 gf) including SKCMAQ (white Alps). Based on the part number, data and diagrams, I'm taking SKCMCQ to be bamboo white, which is also specified the same.

All the Alps switches from 1994 are noticeably heavier than the original blue/“cream” Alps switches. Perhaps the two catalogs are measuring the force at a different point in the keystroke? Or perhaps one of the numbers is just wrong?

Blue and white are, from all available information, the same specification. No-one has yet been able to identify why blue and white don't quite feel the same. My suspicion remains with the actuator leaf that attaches to the switchplate but I've never tested this theory.

If you try mixing and matching components, the differences are mainly caused by the spring and the click leaf, though there may also be some effect from the switchplate leaf. I suspect it’s pretty marginal.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've taken the upper shell, slider, return spring and click leaf from blue Alps, and exchanged them with those of black Alps. The end result is a switch that doesn't quite feel as good as real blue Alps, despite having what one would imagine are the critical components. It could just be my own personal bias — I don't have any way to measure the switches and generate graphs.

I did remove the actuator leaf from an Omron switch (I broke the switchplate completely) and it drastically altered the feel. Instead of being heavy and balky, it now feels smooth and clean like buckling spring. The problem is that it now won't register.

[jacobolus]

I don’t have any black Alps switches, but I tried using the slider, spring, and click leaf from a blue Alps switch with the housing and switchplate from a white Alps switch, and vice versa. I think the main difference you get between the tall & short switchplate is a slight difference in sound. The feel isn’t really affected, or at least not very obviously. The tall switchplate makes the switch sound a bit more “solid”, but it’s a fairly subtle effect, at least for switches outside a keyboard with no keycaps on them.

I’m sure the feel would be noticeably affected if you removed the switchplate entirely.

[terrpn]

just checked out your review............

good job

thanks!