I think of this buy as an experiment, so we should find out in my opinion. Also it will be interesting how long the lube will be usable beyond the shelf life. Until now for every kind of small mechanics (not for switches) I used a small, old bottle of "Feinmechaniköl (Harz und Säurefrei)" which I would estimate to an age of about ten years. But it still works great. Statements like shelf life and so on are always minimums, up to which the manufacturer guarantees that the features of the product will remain the same. It doesn't really mean, that the product becomes unusable afterwards.jcrouse wrote: Well, this raises the question of whether it only has a service life of one year and will need reapplied annually.
Keyboard Lube
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RC-1140
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: Unicomp Terminal Emulator
- Main mouse: Razer Mamba
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
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Limmy
- Location: US
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: G700, Mamba
- Favorite switch: Topre, Red, Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah.. I kind of expected short shelf life for RO-59. It is water based glue, so it is natural that glue loses its ability to bond properly after some time.
Krytox has almost indefinite shelf life according to Dupont.
Krytox has almost indefinite shelf life according to Dupont.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US ... 2117_1.pdfthe oil and thickener do not degrade over time.
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Djuzuh
- Location: France
- DT Pro Member: -
So, since most of the people who want to experiment with switchs are checking out this thread, I permit myself to post a link to this in here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0
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RC-1140
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: Unicomp Terminal Emulator
- Main mouse: Razer Mamba
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
To be quite honest I would tend more to the Krytox now as well, even if it's a smaller amount. I would appreciate, if you (or somebody else) could get a quote on it, so we can really estimate how expensive this will be.
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fossala
- Elite +1
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S
- Main mouse: Rollermouse Free2
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
Yes but I wouldn't want it to get ridiculous with filling out customs forms. If I get more than say 20 in the US I may say no and you guys sort it out over there. Either that or I ship in a large container and you guys do distribution. Of course this is only if there is a lot of US interest.hashbaz wrote:Will this be open to non-EU folks lIke me?
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Acanthophis
- Location: Germany
- DT Pro Member: -
You are quite welcome, sir. Any time!fossala wrote:Thanks for offering my time writing out customs forms and dealing with international shipping!
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webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
Could someone who I can pay by IBAN get 3 sheets for me (one of each color)? I don't have paypal nor gh.Djuzuh wrote:So, since most of the people who want to experiment with switchs are checking out this thread, I permit myself to post a link to this in here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0
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Djuzuh
- Location: France
- DT Pro Member: -
Sure !webwit wrote:Could someone who I can pay by IBAN get 3 sheets for me (one of each color)? I don't have paypal nor gh.Djuzuh wrote:So, since most of the people who want to experiment with switchs are checking out this thread, I permit myself to post a link to this in here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0
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Acanthophis
- Location: Germany
- DT Pro Member: -
One of each colour would be 4 sheets. They also have the green ones.webwit wrote:Could someone who I can pay by IBAN get 3 sheets for me (one of each color)?
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Ian S
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: QPAD MK85 MX-Reds
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX-Red at moment
- DT Pro Member: -
Does the RO59 only have a shelf life once diluted with water?
A few months ago I spoke to a very helpful person at Hi-Tec products in Dorset, UK, about the supply to me of RO-59tm KT.
Hi-Tec products are the UK supplier of RO-59 products but the only one they have is the RO-59tm8. Which is not the same.
She gave me a price of 5 litres for £17.20. And 1 litre is minimum they can do = about £4.00
Mix with 3 x de-mineralised water to make 1 litre of RO-59tm8 into 4 litres of solution.
Hi-Tec products do anodising and they "PTFE dip after the anodising; makes it smooth to the touch. The PTFE coating is hard and doesn't come off."
She suggested asking Ron at http://www.ro59inc.com/products.html for a sample and to explain the difference with RO-59tm KT.
If you have a look at that page: http://www.ro59inc.com/products.html you'll see there are a few RO59's but no RO-59tm KT.
I stopped at that point and didn't ask Ron, well not that I can recall anyway.
My guess is that whether reapplication will be needed, and how soon, would depend on the wear rate of the hardened PTFE lubricant, not it's "shelf life" once applied. I expect that in time it will be rubbed off of the sliding plastic surfaces and either drop to the bottom of the switch or build up at the sides of the friction surfaces.
It looks like some RO59 is heat bonded. Some has anti corrosion. Some is harder wearing and longer lasting.
Maybe the KT is a special, made for one customer in East Asia?? Would they have any commercial or other rights to this variant?
One litre of concentrate would be ample for all the people in this thread together? But it would have to be split into 30, or whatever, small bottles. And not polluted or damaged in the process.
A few months ago I spoke to a very helpful person at Hi-Tec products in Dorset, UK, about the supply to me of RO-59tm KT.
Hi-Tec products are the UK supplier of RO-59 products but the only one they have is the RO-59tm8. Which is not the same.
She gave me a price of 5 litres for £17.20. And 1 litre is minimum they can do = about £4.00
Mix with 3 x de-mineralised water to make 1 litre of RO-59tm8 into 4 litres of solution.
Hi-Tec products do anodising and they "PTFE dip after the anodising; makes it smooth to the touch. The PTFE coating is hard and doesn't come off."
She suggested asking Ron at http://www.ro59inc.com/products.html for a sample and to explain the difference with RO-59tm KT.
If you have a look at that page: http://www.ro59inc.com/products.html you'll see there are a few RO59's but no RO-59tm KT.
I stopped at that point and didn't ask Ron, well not that I can recall anyway.
My guess is that whether reapplication will be needed, and how soon, would depend on the wear rate of the hardened PTFE lubricant, not it's "shelf life" once applied. I expect that in time it will be rubbed off of the sliding plastic surfaces and either drop to the bottom of the switch or build up at the sides of the friction surfaces.
It looks like some RO59 is heat bonded. Some has anti corrosion. Some is harder wearing and longer lasting.
Maybe the KT is a special, made for one customer in East Asia?? Would they have any commercial or other rights to this variant?
One litre of concentrate would be ample for all the people in this thread together? But it would have to be split into 30, or whatever, small bottles. And not polluted or damaged in the process.
Last edited by Ian S on 09 Aug 2012, 00:41, edited 7 times in total.
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Ian S
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: QPAD MK85 MX-Reds
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX-Red at moment
- DT Pro Member: -
From: http://www.ro59inc.com/index.html
Lubrication Coating Breakthrough
For wherever friction is a problem
About RO-59, Inc.
Founded in 1982, RO-59 was built on it's proprietary process of
bonding lubricants to the substrate for significantly longer
wearability and improved lubrication. The strong adhesion
properties give superior performance.
RO-59 is a bonded lubricant coating breakthrough, combining the
durability advantages of bonding with the exceptional lubrication
properties of PTFE in an environmentally safe, ease-of-use
water-based formula. Unparalleled in lubrication and corrosion
protection, RO-59 can work for you wherever friction is a problem.
RO-59's unique proprietary formula is the only bonded,
water-based PTFE lubricant. It's safe, easy-to-use formulation was
developed specifically for use with in-house processes. Dipping,
brushing or spraying will apply RO-59 in less than a minute and it
easily cures at room temperature.
RO-59's unique ability to bond (chemically adhere) to metals,
ceramics and plastics gives it the unique lubricity and long wear
properties. The results are substantially superior lubricity over
other coating lubricants. No other lubricant formulation on the
market, including PTFE impregnation, have the ability to bond to
the substrate material.
Bonding is the chemical adhesion or "gluing" of the PTFE to the
surface substrate material. It's significant advantages are in both
wearability and lubricity.
Other formulations, including PTFE impregnation, simply lay the
PTFE on the surface and thus scratching, washing or rubbing
easily removes the lubricant from the substrate. This reduces
lubrication levels and lowers wear; abrasion and damage result.
RO-59's bonded process protects longer, keeps the lubricant in
place and significantly improves lubrication.
Added corrosion protection is attained through sealing the surface
pores in Anodizing, Hardcoating, Electroless Nickel, etc.
Lubrication Coating Breakthrough
For wherever friction is a problem
About RO-59, Inc.
Founded in 1982, RO-59 was built on it's proprietary process of
bonding lubricants to the substrate for significantly longer
wearability and improved lubrication. The strong adhesion
properties give superior performance.
RO-59 is a bonded lubricant coating breakthrough, combining the
durability advantages of bonding with the exceptional lubrication
properties of PTFE in an environmentally safe, ease-of-use
water-based formula. Unparalleled in lubrication and corrosion
protection, RO-59 can work for you wherever friction is a problem.
RO-59's unique proprietary formula is the only bonded,
water-based PTFE lubricant. It's safe, easy-to-use formulation was
developed specifically for use with in-house processes. Dipping,
brushing or spraying will apply RO-59 in less than a minute and it
easily cures at room temperature.
RO-59's unique ability to bond (chemically adhere) to metals,
ceramics and plastics gives it the unique lubricity and long wear
properties. The results are substantially superior lubricity over
other coating lubricants. No other lubricant formulation on the
market, including PTFE impregnation, have the ability to bond to
the substrate material.
Bonding is the chemical adhesion or "gluing" of the PTFE to the
surface substrate material. It's significant advantages are in both
wearability and lubricity.
Other formulations, including PTFE impregnation, simply lay the
PTFE on the surface and thus scratching, washing or rubbing
easily removes the lubricant from the substrate. This reduces
lubrication levels and lowers wear; abrasion and damage result.
RO-59's bonded process protects longer, keeps the lubricant in
place and significantly improves lubrication.
Added corrosion protection is attained through sealing the surface
pores in Anodizing, Hardcoating, Electroless Nickel, etc.
-
Limmy
- Location: US
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: G700, Mamba
- Favorite switch: Topre, Red, Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
I would GUESS diluting it would only shorten the life of the lube.Ian S wrote:Does the RO59 only have a shelf life once diluted with water?
I don't think there is enough study/data on reapplication cycle of RO-59. We keyboard enthusiasts who would care to lube our keyboards simply do not use one keyboard for long time to see such effects. However, I know for one thing that the coating is not permanent. Because if it were, every keyboard with RO-59 treatment would be good as new for years, which I highly doubt. Whether the lube job last longer compared to its alternative Krytox is one interesting question that warrants further study though.
I know hasu has a lot of experience in RO-59. A lot of Japanese members would have better idea on RO-59 because they have been using it for a while.
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Ian S
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: QPAD MK85 MX-Reds
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX-Red at moment
- DT Pro Member: -
From the Hi-Tec products site:
Preparation
The RO-59 concentrate is a dispersion that must be thoroughly mixed by agitation before it is made up. It is then diluted with deionized water and the pH adjusted to the recommended value.
Quite a bit more involved than, eg, a nail varnish kind of thing. In that; small bottle, brush in the lid, open, paint, let dry, go and play.
Preparation
The RO-59 concentrate is a dispersion that must be thoroughly mixed by agitation before it is made up. It is then diluted with deionized water and the pH adjusted to the recommended value.
Quite a bit more involved than, eg, a nail varnish kind of thing. In that; small bottle, brush in the lid, open, paint, let dry, go and play.
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Ian S
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: QPAD MK85 MX-Reds
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX-Red at moment
- DT Pro Member: -
http://www.iomania.co.kr/frontstore/ite ... _id=iomall
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... CG8Q7gEwBw
From a one year old thread Google found: http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t1017.html
"I think there was something about the tmKT variant. Either it was especially made on order, or it was named after the guy ordering it, and it was a common variant, just relabelled."
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... CG8Q7gEwBw
From a one year old thread Google found: http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t1017.html
"I think there was something about the tmKT variant. Either it was especially made on order, or it was named after the guy ordering it, and it was a common variant, just relabelled."
Last edited by Ian S on 09 Aug 2012, 01:35, edited 2 times in total.
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Limmy
- Location: US
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: G700, Mamba
- Favorite switch: Topre, Red, Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
I heard some keyboards from Keytronics used RO-59 for their keyboards. I was referring to that example.Ian S wrote:Better than new?Limmy wrote:good as new for years
Rigs really likes RO-59 though.(See here) He applied it to Cherry MX black switches, and he said the lubed switches were very smooth comparable to vintage blacks.
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webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
Please, do use three point ISO calibrated pH meters to determine if your RO-59 dilutions aren't acidic. 
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webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
Hence RO-59kt. But on itself this information doesn't tell us much. Maybe they just used it because it was cheap and acceptable, but not durable. We don't know.Limmy wrote:I heard some keyboards from Keytronics used RO-59 for their keyboards.