deskthority

Haha this thread is great, yeah my Model M's all satisfy me to some degree and there's no loud pub-drinker involved PollandAkuma, quite the tease this one right Chyros?

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑When you say "kept" — which Model M keyboards have this feature?

Not buckling spring specifically; I meant that IBM kept it on some keyboard models up until the very end (which would have been the SK-8812). It's more of a random anecdote to stipulate a relative continuity.

Is there a thread showing off Model MF? I am really curious and expectant about it.

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑Is there a thread showing off Model MF? I am really curious and expectant about it.

Too many of them. It gets confusing.

workshop-f7/remodeling-the-model-m-t13796.html

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑I love Ms exactly for their crude masculine feel and sound, comparatively Cherry switches are more refined and feminine...

My thoughts exactly.

Model-Ms are for Men and the Cherry Switched disaster's are all for Women or those so inclined.

Where do you put people who own Thorpies because it's totally androgynous with no sex appeal whatsoever, unless you speak with the demented owning any HHKBs.

Elrick wrote: ↑

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑I love Ms exactly for their crude masculine feel and sound, comparatively Cherry switches are more refined and feminine...

My thoughts exactly.

Model-Ms are for Men and the Cherry Switched disaster's are all for Women or those so inclined.

Where do you put people who own Thorpies because it's totally androgynous with no sex appeal whatsoever, unless you speak with the demented owning any HHKBs.

Some women might disagree with you there! Nothing more feminine than a loud switch

drevyek wrote: ↑

Elrick wrote: ↑

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑I love Ms exactly for their crude masculine feel and sound, comparatively Cherry switches are more refined and feminine...

My thoughts exactly.

Model-Ms are for Men and the Cherry Switched disaster's are all for Women or those so inclined.

Where do you put people who own Thorpies because it's totally androgynous with no sex appeal whatsoever, unless you speak with the demented owning any HHKBs.

Some women might disagree with you there! Nothing more feminine than a loud switch

This women looks manly I love Model M also for its simplistic minimalist design, not only the appearance but also the structure...Model F has a better tactility but the whole design is not as simplistic as M's.

Elrick wrote: ↑Model-Ms are for Men and the Cherry Switched disaster's are all for Women or those so inclined.

I dunno about that, I've just gone back to my SSK after a few months' worth of using a Filco with MX Blues. The Filco was alright but I'm much happier being back on the SSK again. If anything I'd describe the latter as feeling more refined and the MX keys as seeming a bit... I dunno, cheap-sounding, almost. But y'know, subjectivity and all that.

vometia wrote: ↑
using a Filco with MX Blues

the MX keys as seeming a bit... I dunno, cheap-sounding

The blue Cherry switches are the worst-sounding switches in the universe. Landing pads help.

fohat wrote: ↑ The blue Cherry switches are the worst-sounding switches in the universe. Landing pads help.

Tell that to the gamers on YouTube who think that MX Blues sound better than Blue Alps or IBM BS

Here is what I got yesterday ,this one is NOT FOR SALE of course. A beige unicomp 122 with win key and blue sublegends,ps2 cable, as a diehard Buckling Spring fan boy, this is what I have been coveting for quite a while, the seller just listed and I believe if I were 3 minutes slower, it'd be somebodyelse's...it's just a little dirty, a can of compressed air will solve the problem.
Sorry for the crappy mobilephone shots, I will take better photos after I clean it up.

I have a standard "classic" Unicomp from that time and it is a very nice machine.

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑I love Model M also for its simplistic minimalist design, not only the appearance but also the structure...Model F has a better tactility but the whole design is not as simplistic as M's.

I'd say the Model F design is more simplistic in terms of components because all you need is a flipper against a PCB. Whereas the Model M needs a rubber sheet and a membrane totaling three layers.
There's a lot of banter between F and M (and beamspring, which is a completely different switch using a plate spring). At the end of the day they're all good, but the Model M revolutionized the PC keyboard layout and implemented some amazing features that most Model Fs and beamsprings just don't have.

micrex22 wrote: ↑
the Model M revolutionized the PC keyboard layout and implemented some amazing features that most Model Fs and beamsprings just don't have.

Huh?

The layout finalized what has become the modern "standard" ....

But what *features* could you be referring to except for lower price and weight?

micrex22 wrote: ↑

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑I love Model M also for its simplistic minimalist design, not only the appearance but also the structure...Model F has a better tactility but the whole design is not as simplistic as M's.

I'd say the Model F design is more simplistic in terms of components because all you need is a flipper against a PCB.

It's not a very good way to estimate the complexity of a system based ONLY on the amount of parts in it though, is it? :p If anything, the F is more complicated BECAUSE it has fewer parts.

Besides, the electrical and spacing tolerances on the Model F are insanely fine, other manufacturers didn't even ATTEMPT to clone the switch afaik .

Chyros wrote: ↑
the F is more complicated BECAUSE it has fewer parts.

How is this? The M has 3 mylar sheets and a rubber mat, plus 1 barrel plate, where the F has front and back plates, a mylar isolation sheet, a foam sheet, and individual barrels.

Taking the "controller assembly" (including LEDs, whatever is soldered down that you keep intact with a rebuild) as a single unit, I figure that an M has something on the order of 400 pieces (also depending on whether you separate the "flippers" into springs and pivot plates) while the F has more like 500 parts, depending on which one you are considering.

Let's just deem everything mounted on the metal plate as one single part. But still Model F has more PCBs and ICs and more difficult to disassemble ESPECIALLY the notorious SPACE BAR...

fohat wrote: ↑

Chyros wrote: ↑
the F is more complicated BECAUSE it has fewer parts.

How is this? The M has 3 mylar sheets and a rubber mat, plus 1 barrel plate, where the F has front and back plates, a mylar isolation sheet, a foam sheet, and individual barrels.

Taking the "controller assembly" (including LEDs, whatever is soldered down that you keep intact with a rebuild) as a single unit, I figure that an M has something on the order of 400 pieces (also depending on whether you separate the "flippers" into springs and pivot plates) while the F has more like 500 parts, depending on which one you are considering.

Personally I'd count both as two-part switches (spring and flipper) although the amount of "parts" is very debatable. You could argue that the F has fewer parts because it only uses once PCB instead of three membranes though, that's what I was getting at. The complexity of the electronics parts is much greater and more sensitive on the F, though.

I don't understand the question.

zslane wrote: ↑
I don't understand the question.

"Does the Model M satisfy you?" = Does owning an IBM Model M complete your computer keyboard experience?

micrex22 wrote: ↑There's a lot of banter between F and M (and beamspring, which is a completely different switch using a plate spring). At the end of the day they're all good, but the Model M revolutionized the PC keyboard layout and implemented some amazing features that most Model Fs and beamsprings just don't have.

Wasn't it the LK201 that revolutionised the layout? I thought IBM just borrowed its better ideas (and admittedly left some of the odder ones behind, though sadly that included the compose key).

vometia wrote: ↑

micrex22 wrote: ↑There's a lot of banter between F and M (and beamspring, which is a completely different switch using a plate spring). At the end of the day they're all good, but the Model M revolutionized the PC keyboard layout and implemented some amazing features that most Model Fs and beamsprings just don't have.

Wasn't it the LK201 that revolutionised the layout? I thought IBM just borrowed its better ideas (and admittedly left some of the odder ones behind, though sadly that included the compose key).

The LK201 was the dawn of the T-nav, which could be argued as a main hallmark of the Modern Layout.

If there is anything to lament, it's the loss of the R3 control key. Who uses caps lock so often that it needs to be put in such a prominent position?

drevyek wrote: ↑

vometia wrote: ↑

micrex22 wrote: ↑There's a lot of banter between F and M (and beamspring, which is a completely different switch using a plate spring). At the end of the day they're all good, but the Model M revolutionized the PC keyboard layout and implemented some amazing features that most Model Fs and beamsprings just don't have.

Wasn't it the LK201 that revolutionised the layout? I thought IBM just borrowed its better ideas (and admittedly left some of the odder ones behind, though sadly that included the compose key).

The LK201 was the dawn of the T-nav, which could be argued as a main hallmark of the Modern Layout.

If there is anything to lament, it's the loss of the R3 control key. Who uses caps lock so often that it needs to be put in such a prominent position?

But Ctrl is often used with Z, X, C or V, ALL of which are close to the bottom left spot D:!

The nr of the replies are beyond my imaginations on my topic. Is there a "Buckling Spring appreciation" topic?
EDIT: Nope... There is no. I might create one IF someone won't do it What do you think, Chyros (Alps topic begins with it: Chyros said: DOOOIT)

Lynx_Carpathica wrote: ↑
Is there a "Buckling Spring appreciation" topic?

Likely to be mostly bickering about Model F vs Model M.

Well, that will be the case, I'm certain xD

PollandAkuma wrote: ↑

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑

Entropia wrote: ↑I've had a Model M for many years and I finally sold it. It's a fantastic keyboard and, as regards performance, it's unbeatable, but I wanted something more pleasurable to type on. I find Cherry switches more refined and less crude, both in how the feel and how they sound. I'd really like to try a brand new Model M or Unicomp. Maybe they are better.

I love Ms exactly for their crude masculine feel and sound, comparatively Cherry switches are more refined and feminine...I think the reason there are so many switches out there is to make everyone can get what s/he wants.

My thoughts:
Topre = ultimate sexy lad(d)y
Model M = loud drinker at a pub(?)

HA.

Good examples. You may love IBM 3278 and it has the SUPER MODE

fohat wrote: ↑

micrex22 wrote: ↑
the Model M revolutionized the PC keyboard layout and implemented some amazing features that most Model Fs and beamsprings just don't have.

Huh?

The layout finalized what has become the modern "standard" ....

But what *features* could you be referring to except for lower price and weight?

Of course the Model M standardized computer layouts, that's what I meant by 'revolutionized', clone manufactures copied so many elements of the Personal System/2 series, not just their keyboards. But the layout was a huge thing; of course it met some criticism at the time, but everyone who is young doesn't remember that.

The features you should know immediately off the top of your head:
*detachable cable
*two-piece keycaps
*PVC chassis instead of painted plastic (only exception would be 4704 series and some uncommon Model Ms which were painted over such as early ones and refurbs)
*swappable controller header with the two pegs (so you can fit different interfaces like the terminal 101 Ms, and in this case it's handy for the MF covers)
*stronger (thicker) stabilizers (early ones of course had stabs on the numpad)

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑Let's just deem everything mounted on the metal plate as one single part. But still Model F has more PCBs and ICs and more difficult to disassemble ESPECIALLY the notorious SPACE BAR...

the more favoured 122s, unsavers and 4074s have 'normal' space bars but use a thinner wire than M.

micrex22 wrote: ↑The features you should know immediately off the top of your head:
*detachable cable
*two-piece keycaps
*PVC chassis instead of painted plastic (only exception would be 4704 series and some uncommon Model Ms which were painted over such as early ones and refurbs)
*swappable controller header with the two pegs (so you can fit different interfaces like the terminal 101 Ms, and in this case it's handy for the MF covers)
*stronger (thicker) stabilizers (early ones of course had stabs on the numpad)

Good points. When things like features are mentioned my thinking always gravitates towards the layout and I forget stuff like this. Which is odd, considering it's the overall build and feel of the keyboard I love most about the Model M: although the LK201 isn't as mushy as I've previously claimed, it's not something where I've ever thought "I must use my LK!" (well, apart from its fixed RJ45 cable not plugging into anything especially useful for day-to-day computing).

Back to the actual question, "does it satisfy me?", there's one area where the Model M definitely doesn't, which is its boring beige cylindrical keycaps with the mean little legends in the corner. I get so jealous of seeing the nice sphericals in interesting colours with their big, centred legends when all I have is that "welcome to a boring open-plan office of the '90s" vibe greeting me.

the more favoured 122s, unsavers and 4074s have 'normal' space bars but use a thinner wire than M.

Is F122 useable like AT is on a modern pc?