deskthority

Here's the problem coffee - people are free to express their opinion that someone overpaid for a keyboard. But these very same people also said:

Wodan wrote: ↑Don't let that spoil the joy you have with this keyboard.

If someone buys a Honda that is normally worth $1000, but spends $2000 because the seller made some minor modifications to it, we are free to say, "you spent too much for that Honda". It's not being snobby, it's just stating a truth. If that really makes you so upset, perhaps stop selling your items?

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ Links? I check Ebay.com (US, btw) multiple times a day. If a seller in another country doesn't offer worldwide shipping, I cannot see it.

So you'll sell me the one you just bought for $250, right? Probably not. But my offer up above is valid.

And I'm being "aggressive" because a good person was treated unfairly.

Myoth wrote: ↑http://www.ebay.com/itm/152914593846/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292447043380/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292443210944/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292443195217/

that's 4 F122 for less than 150usd, and recently.

you can't make this shit up, you'd have to scroll up like 4 times to see this, did you really need to ask ?

and no, I didn't buy it for 250usd (how did you even manage to understand that ?) and no I won't sell it to you (again, how did you understand that ??), this is much rarer than the F122 you found, I'm lucky enough to have found one, this is not to sell to you so you can make it a flashing Christmas tree.

Myoth wrote: ↑

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ Links? I check Ebay.com (US, btw) multiple times a day. If a seller in another country doesn't offer worldwide shipping, I cannot see it.

So you'll sell me the one you just bought for $250, right? Probably not. But my offer up above is valid.

And I'm being "aggressive" because a good person was treated unfairly.

Myoth wrote: ↑http://www.ebay.com/itm/152914593846/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292447043380/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292443210944/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292443195217/

that's 4 F122 for less than 150usd, and recently.

you can't make this shit up, you'd have to scroll up like 4 times to see this, did you really need to ask ?

and no, I didn't buy it for 250usd (how did you even manage to understand that ?) and no I won't sell it to you (again, how did you understand that ??), this is much rarer than the F122 you found, I'm lucky enough to have found one, this is not to sell to ...

So what you're saying is that you won't sell the F122s that you got to quicker than I did for less than 150usd to me for 250usd? Well gee ain't that interesting.

...you so you can make it a flashing Christmas tree.

Please punch yourself in the face. Repeatedly. Thank you.

150$ for an F122 !? Damn I would have overpaid.

Blaise170 wrote: ↑Here's the problem coffee - people are free to express their opinion that someone overpaid for a keyboard. But these very same people also said:

Wodan wrote: ↑Don't let that spoil the joy you have with this keyboard.

If someone buys a Honda that is normally worth $1000, but spends $2000 because the seller made some minor modifications to it, we are free to say, "you spent too much for that Honda". It's not being snobby, it's just stating a truth. If that really makes you so upset, perhaps stop selling your items?

Then you should accept my challenge. Do a comparable customization and refurbishment job, and sell it for less on Ebay.

Maybe you can. I'll even walk you through everything that I did! But you won't.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑

Myoth wrote: ↑

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ Links? I check Ebay.com (US, btw) multiple times a day. If a seller in another country doesn't offer worldwide shipping, I cannot see it.

So you'll sell me the one you just bought for $250, right? Probably not. But my offer up above is valid.

And I'm being "aggressive" because a good person was treated unfairly.

Myoth wrote: ↑http://www.ebay.com/itm/152914593846/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292447043380/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292443210944/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292443195217/

that's 4 F122 for less than 150usd, and recently.

you can't make this shit up, you'd have to scroll up like 4 times to see this, did you really need to ask ?

and no, I didn't buy it for 250usd (how did you even manage to understand that ?) and no I won't sell it to you (again, how did you understand that ??), this is much rarer than the F122 you found, I'm lucky enough to have found one, this is not to sell to ...

So what you're saying is that you won't sell the F122s that you got to quicker than I did for less than 150usd to me for 250usd? Well gee ain't that interesting.

...you so you can make it a flashing Christmas tree.

Please punch yourself in the face. Repeatedly. Thank you.

Of course I won't, as I said, this is a french model, I don't think I've ever seen another one of these, and I'm not in this hobby to make profit, I want to enjoy the keyboards I get without thinking about how much money I can get from them, which is for me the definition of a hobby, a pleasure that goes beyond money.

I won't punch myself, first because it'd be dumb and second because I'm expressing an opinion, whether or not you like it.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑Then you should accept my challenge. Do a comparable customization and refurbishment job, and sell it for less on Ebay.

Maybe you can. I'll even walk you through everything that I did! But you won't.

You obviously know very little about me, considering I've refurbished many keyboards over the years which later sold at a loss (and I'm sure that more than a few people here could vouch for that). I'm in it for the fun and experience of the things. I am not telling you to do the same; anyways I'm glad you are able to turn a profit, but this entire conversation is about whether ClickMe overpaid or did not. He paid more than what most would value that particular keyboard and the fact that you turned a profit is completely irrelevant.

Blaise170 wrote: ↑

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑Then you should accept my challenge. Do a comparable customization and refurbishment job, and sell it for less on Ebay.

Maybe you can. I'll even walk you through everything that I did! But you won't.

You obviously know very little about me, considering I've refurbished many keyboards over the years which later sold at a loss (and I'm sure that more than a few people here could vouch for that). I'm in it for the fun and experience of the things. I am not telling you to do the same; anyways I'm glad you are able to turn a profit, but this entire conversation is about whether ClickMe overpaid or did not. He paid more than what most would value that particular keyboard and the fact that you turned a profit is completely irrelevant.

Nice humblebrag. I'm glad that your financial standing is such that you can afford to lose money on multiple keyboards. Not all of us are as blessed.

And, as a seller, you're certainly capable of grade school level math, and can figure out that my "profit" was not as much as is being made out to be. (Hint: Use the Ebay fee and PayPal fee calculators to start.)

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑I'm glad that your financial standing

Me too!

Just let it go, coffee. You're getting awfully defensive about the opinions about this sale. What do you actually care? Someone was willing to pay an obscene about of money for your keyboard, so you won, right?

What I found interesting from the very start was that this ClickMe guy, who created his account literal days before posting this thread, was so blatantly head-over-heels professing love for your work. Who does that? It's very suspicious, to say the least. I'm not publicly accusing you of making an account just to try to increase your reputation-value on these forums, I just want you to understand how some people would see a red flag here.

And Blaise170, I actually thought I did know you. That's why you belittling another member's customer, and in-effect that member, is so disappointing.

As someone who refurbishes old keyboards, you know that there are tools and equipment involved that might not be obvious. As a seller, you also know that Ebay and PayPal fees account for about 13-ish percent of the cost. And maybe you might be at a point in life where your labor is valueless to you; me, I'm not so lucky.

And as a community, we're too willing to expect someone to give of their time for free. That's bullshit, and it's why we don't have more people doing awesome stuff with vintage boards.

//gainsborough wrote: ↑Just let it go, coffee. You're getting awfully defensive about the opinions about this sale. What do you actually care? Someone was willing to pay an obscene about of money for your keyboard, so you won, right?

What I found interesting from the very start was that this ClickMe guy, who created his account literal days before posting this thread, was so blatantly head-over-heels professing love for your work. Who does that? It's very suspicious, to say the least. I'm not publicly accusing you of making an account just to try to increase your reputation-value on these forums, I just want you to understand how some people would see a red flag here.

Jesus fucking Christ, you too?!?

Maybe ... just maybe ... they created an account when I introduced myself after the auction, we got to talking, and I recommended Deskthority to them.

I'm damned sure regretting that now.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ Nice humblebrag. I'm glad that your financial standing is such that you can afford to lose money on multiple keyboards. Not all of us are as blessed.

Not bragging about my financial standing at all which is, frankly, none of your business. Secondly, most hobbies require monetary input. The fact that you are attacking me for doing what I enjoy shows me all I need to know about your personality. You made the claim that I wouldn't be willing to spend time and energy on a restoration and take a loss, I simply responded to your claim and you are being defensive as if no one could ever do such a thing.

P.S. Money is not the key to happiness.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑And Blaise170, I actually thought I did know you. That's why you belittling another member's customer, and in-effect that member, is so disappointing.

Please show me the evidence where I belittled your customer? I never said a single thing to them.

mike52787 wrote: ↑I purchased a f122 for $145 just a week or so ago.

Want to tell everyone how much you charged me for an F122?

Blaise170 wrote: ↑
P.S. Money is not the key to happiness.

...

Please show me the evidence where I belittled your customer? I never said a single thing to them.

How is telling someone that they overpaid not belittling?

And it was you and some others here making a big deal about money/how much someone paid long before I ventured into this thread.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ As a seller, you also know that Ebay and PayPal fees account for about 13-ish percent of the cost.

So don't sell things on eBay. if ClickMe has proven anything it's that there are people within the DT/reddit/GH community willing to pay lots of money for customized vintage boards.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ And as a community, we're too willing to expect someone to give of their time for free. That's bullshit, and it's why we don't have more people doing awesome stuff with vintage boards.

Okay, I wasn't going to get involved, but now you've struck a nerve.

For most of us this is a hobby, not a business. I would say that a vast majority of us aren't here to fix up old keyboards so that we can sell them or turn a profit, but instead to fix up old keyboards because it is enjoyable. Becauase at the end of countless hours of learning to solder, desoldering boards, lubing up old switches, fixing cut traces, reading up on how to make a converter, splicing wires together, experimenting on hybridizing switches, mixing and matching unique keycap combinations, etc. we can look at the final product and be proud of what we've accomplished. I can guarantee that people like Hasu and orihalcon didn't spend the time to figure out how to convert some of these boards because they were thinking about selling them and making lots of money - but instead because they wanted to make their board work - because they wanted to use some of this old vintage stuff. Then they made more so that other people could enjoy them as well.

I've always maintained that the real joy from this hobby comes from tinkering People are doing awesome stuff with vintage boards, dude. All the time.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑

mike52787 wrote: ↑I purchased a f122 for $145 just a week or so ago.

Want to tell everyone how much you charged me for an F122?

Please tell me $620

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑
How is telling someone that they overpaid not belittling?

And it was you and some others here making a big deal about money/how much someone paid long before I ventured into this thread.

Please quote me where I told someone they overpaid. The fact is, you can't because it never happened. All I mentioned is the Beamspring that someone had listed on eBay for over $4000. That has nothing to do with you, your customer, or this thread.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑
Jesus fucking Christ, you too?!?

Maybe ... just maybe ... they created an account when I introduced myself after the auction, we got to talking, and I recommended Deskthority to them.

I'm damned sure regretting that now.

Entirely possible, dude. Again, I'm not accusing you, I'm just trying to make you see why some people would see a red flag here. This entire thread is pointlessly clashing opinions. Realize that they are just opinions, though. Opinions could change tomorrow. If you know you're right, and that you feel that you acted with integrity and transparency in this matter, then just say that and move on. You're escalating things way past where they should have been by arguing back and forth.

//gainsborough wrote: ↑

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ As a seller, you also know that Ebay and PayPal fees account for about 13-ish percent of the cost.

So don't sell things on eBay. if ClickMe has proven anything it's that there are people within the DT/reddit/GH community willing to pay lots of money for customized vintage boards.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑ And as a community, we're too willing to expect someone to give of their time for free. That's bullshit, and it's why we don't have more people doing awesome stuff with vintage boards.

Okay, I wasn't going to get involved, but now you've struck a nerve.

For most of us this is a hobby, not a business. I would say that a vast majority of us aren't here to fix up old keyboards so that we can sell them or turn a profit, but instead to fix up old keyboards because it is enjoyable. Becauase at the end of countless hours of learning to solder, desoldering boards, lubing up old switches, fixing cut traces, reading up on how to make a converter, splicing wires together, experimenting on hybridizing switches, mixing and matching unique keycap combinations, etc. we can look at the final product and be proud of what we've accomplished. I can guarantee that people like Hasu and orihalcon didn't spend the time to figure out how to convert some of these boards because they were thinking about selling them and making lots of money - but instead because they wanted to make their board work - because they wanted to use some of this old vintage stuff. Then they made more so that other people could enjoy them as well.

I've always maintained that the real joy from this hobby comes from tinkering People are doing awesome stuff with vintage boards, dude. All the time.

Are you saying that Orihalcon and Hasu aren't making some money? Because I hope like hell that they are! For one thing, they deserve it; for another, they're more likely to stick around, unlike people whose contributions didn't include a profit incentive.

A business and a hobby are NOT mutually exclusive.

And there would be far more people doing awesome stuff if we ceased the expectation of people doing stuff for free. Free is great, when someone voluntarily wants to give of their time and resources; expecting and demanding that something is free is absolutely wrong.

Blaise170 wrote: ↑ Please show me the evidence where I belittled your customer? I never said a single thing to them.

This post up above ...

If someone buys a Honda that is normally worth $1000, but spends $2000 because the seller made some minor modifications to it, we are free to say, "you spent too much for that Honda". It's not being snobby, it's just stating a truth. If that really makes you so upset, perhaps stop selling your items?

I did more than way more "minor modifications." And there was NOT 100% markup (this was an auction btw).

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑

//gainsborough wrote: ↑
Are you saying that Orihalcon and Hasu aren't making some money? Because I hope like hell that they are! For one thing, they deserve it; for another, they're more likely to stick around, unlike people whose contributions didn't include a profit incentive.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that the desire to make it in the first place didnt't come from the standpoint of making money.

I don't disagree that hobbies and business are mutually exclusive either - but I would say that in those cases, it always starts as a hobby, and can turn into a business.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑

//gainsborough wrote: ↑ And there would be far more people doing awesome stuff if we ceased the expectation of people doing stuff for free. Free is great, when someone voluntarily wants to give of their time and resources; expecting and demanding that something is free is absolutely wrong.

This is where I disagree, though. I'm saying that people do awesome stuff for themselves because they want to. Most people who do awesome stuff here aren't doing it to make a profit - the time they invest is for their own interest and pleasure. For example, I have an omnikey 101 and focus fk-555 project I'm working on that, to my knowledge, hasn't been done yet. I can't wait to share it with everyone when it's finished, but I'm doing it for myself.

In any case, I don't know where you got the notion that everyone in this thread values the time you put into the f122 you sold at zero. I'm not sure where you're getting this "free" time idea from.

//gainsborough wrote: ↑Again, I'm not accusing you ...

Bullshit.

What I found interesting from the very start was that this ClickMe guy, who created his account literal days before posting this thread, was so blatantly head-over-heels professing love for your work. Who does that? It's very suspicious, to say the least.

That is a flat-out accusation.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑Are you saying that Orihalcon and Hasu aren't making some money? Because I hope like hell that they are! For one thing, they deserve it; for another, they're more likely to stick around, unlike people whose contributions didn't include a profit incentive.

I stuck around here for quite some time now, and I am pretty sure I did not make any money

This whole thread is like a train wreck in progress ...

//gainsborough wrote: ↑ In any case, I don't know where you got the notion that everyone in this thread values the time you put into the f122 you sold at zero. I'm not sure where you're getting this "free" time idea from.

The self-appointed experts in this thread claiming that ClickMe overpaid and that F122s only cost $250 or less, not counting everything that I did to it.

I'm done with this place.

EXCEPT to buy F122s for $250. My post in the Marketplace offering to buy F122s for $250 each has been up for more than an hour with no takers thus far. Thought I'd be up to my ears in F122s by now.

And beware ... I almost certainly will decorate them like Christmas trees. Or Kwanzaa Trees. I haven't decided. Is there a holiday tree that uses EL wire and glow-in-the-dark paint? Because reasons.

(Not really. A few LEDs and a colored barrel plate isn't that big of a deal people.)

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑I did more than way more "minor modifications." And there was NOT 100% markup (this was an auction btw).

I never claimed you made minor modifications nor did I claim that you were marking up your prices 100%. I was giving an example of how it can be perceived. In any case, I was not attacking your customer nor did I ever, so this is again, irrelevant.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑Are you saying that Orihalcon and Hasu aren't making some money? Because I hope like hell that they are! For one thing, they deserve it; for another, they're more likely to stick around, unlike people whose contributions didn't include a profit incentive.

A business and a hobby are NOT mutually exclusive.

And there would be far more people doing awesome stuff if we ceased the expectation of people doing stuff for free. Free is great, when someone voluntarily wants to give of their time and resources; expecting and demanding that something is free is absolutely wrong.

This is my last post, as you either are failing to comprehend what I'm saying or you are ignoring it and lashing out instead. I had no qualms against you and was simply giving opinions on the thread.

Anyways, neither is a business and a hobby mutually inclusive. Orihalcon and Hasu might be making some money here and there but that's not the point. The point is that we collect keyboards and are converting them because we enjoy it. We don't expect things to be free, but we are entitled to speak up if we feel that someone is overpaying for things (which, keep in mind, I did not do here as you claim).

I've spoken to Hasu many times in the past, I offered him payment to make a converter for me. Instead, he guided me on how to do it myself so that I didn't have to spend any money. I have spoken to Orihalcon many times as well, and even proxied a large order for him from Japan. He was awesome to deal with, paid me more than what I asked for, and let me play around with the keyboards for a few days before I forwarded them on to him. The point is, people are doing awesome stuff because it's a hobby and it's what we enjoy doing.

Have you ever been to a meetup? I went to one a couple of years ago and met some of the other prominent Redditors/Geekhackers/DTers and they were just as awesome in real life as they are here online. We had tons of fun that day, got to share our experiences, went to get lunch together, etc. All because we love the hobby, not because there is some predetermined necessity to maintain profitability. Remember that everything I've said so far is about how we love the hobby for what it is. You seem to be blinded by the money and that's very unfortunate - I'd have loved to discuss the experiences you had with refurbishing your board.

I honestly don't have any qualms with you even now - just remember that there is more to this hobby than meets the eye.

just_add_coffee wrote: ↑

//gainsborough wrote: ↑Again, I'm not accusing you ...

Bullshit.

What I found interesting from the very start was that this ClickMe guy, who created his account literal days before posting this thread, was so blatantly head-over-heels professing love for your work. Who does that? It's very suspicious, to say the least.

That is a flat-out accusation.

Being suspicious is an accusation?