Break-in period for HHKB?

face · 29 Jul 2016, 11:21

Hey,

I clearly remember people saying, a HHKB feels like someone meltet butter over it.

This isn't the case with my one. Although most keys are very smooth and way smoother than Cherry switches, there certainly is some scratchiness to them. Especially with some and when you hit them at an angle.

Is there a break in period for a HHKB or is this normal? I don't really want to open the board to lube it, as it is brand new and I also don't have the lube and everything.

Best regards
Max

ramnes · 29 Jul 2016, 12:10

Lube is the answer.

derzemel · 29 Jul 2016, 12:22

most of the people saying that most probably have had experience only with modern cherry switches (modern blacks for example, if they are new, are very scratchy), so it is understandable that they consider topre to be like "typing on boobies".

I have 2 Novatouches and a FC660C and they have a little bit of scratchiness, about the same level as vintage blacks, especially on the stabilized keys. The only switches I tried, which are smoother, are nixies, but not by much. This understandable because there are pieces of plastic which are touching and sliding over each other with out any lube.

Now, with use, of course they will become smoother over time, so I say, do not worry, be happy that you have a HHKB which is considered to be one of the best keyboards ever

.
But, if have to make them completely scratch free, then you will have to lube them and this applies to all mechanical switches, not only Topre.

czarek · 29 Jul 2016, 12:41

Give it couple weeks, maybe a month. Although I must say the HHKB I was given this year is definitely less smooth than my previous one and my Realforce 55G.
I would advise against using lube on top of Topre. It's very easy to mess up the rubber, and you are never 100% sure what's inside of the lube.

face · 29 Jul 2016, 13:10

Alright, thank you very much! I will give it some time and it is not that noticeable while typing anyway. If at all. Funny enough, the stabilizers are the smoothes and best sounding parts on the keyboard. I will give it some time and anyway as I said, I dislike the idea of disassembling a new keyboard and messing around with it, especially as it is 99.9% perfect. I'll just make this a 100%

An yeah, the HHKB is pretty fuc**** awesome! I absolutely love it. It was one of the best decisions to buy it

bocahgundul · 29 Jul 2016, 14:17

Lubing the slider will always be the solution I got a type S HHKB that is so scratchy but you can make 'em feels smoother by just lubing them with thick krytox lube I got mine from zeal but you can mix it yourself the mix is 205 and 103 50/50 mix

Crossfire · 31 Jul 2016, 22:30

bocahgundul wrote: ↑Lubing the slider will always be the solution I got a type S HHKB that is so scratchy but you can make 'em feels smoother by just lubing them with thick krytox lube I got mine from zeal but you can mix it yourself the mix is 205 and 103 50/50 mix

+1
Lubed topre is godly. Smooth as silk and quiet as the type s

HHKB's are so well put together, so thought out that lubing or cleaning them is a breeze. Just unscrew couple of screws (controller and bottom case and of course the pcb and top of the case). Leave the domes on the pcb, they kind of stick to it. You're left with just the top case, stabs and sliders. Lube the heck out of it as described and assemble everything in reverse. Practice makes perfect, just go for it, there's nothing to f**k up

face · 31 Jul 2016, 22:48

Why is it quieter through lubing?

Crossfire · 31 Jul 2016, 22:59

face wrote: ↑Why is it quieter through lubing?

Because sliders don't wobble in the barrels that much. Sliders wobble (on keypresses) - you hear those squeeky sounds because of the plastic slider rubbing and wiggling inside the plastic barrels. Lubed topre thocks and is really nice to listen to.

face · 31 Jul 2016, 23:03

Ah, okay. Alright, the stabs are the quietest bits on my HHKB, the loudness comes from the snapping back of the keys, which is the "problem" that is attacked with the silencing rings.

Thank you very much!

Crossfire · 31 Jul 2016, 23:06

Yes and no

I gave my lubed hhkb to my friend, loooong time hhkb user. And first thing he said was "Did you put hypherspheres inside it?". He thought I've type-s'ed her

And relubing the stabs with krytox improves them too...it's really remarkable. The factory lube will lose it's viscosity and then your stabs will get louder and louder too...

Elrick · 01 Aug 2016, 03:26

Crossfire wrote: ↑ The factory lube will lose it's viscosity and then your stabs will get louder and louder too...

Of course spending hundreds on a HHKB will certainly attract ANY dubious copy artists to this gathering of gullibles because there is MONEY to be made from these type of people.

Why not, perfectly adequate selling a HHKB claiming to be "Made in Japan" but wasn't, the poor user will put up with the lower quality because the propaganda being spread here, is to PUT up with it.

This just get's better and better, and I hope the Rip-Off merchants fully capitalize upon all your lot's ignorance and obsession with this horrid little keyboard. Long live Greed and Stupidity

.

Chyros · 01 Aug 2016, 03:36

From what I could tell, Topre is not friction-free. It's smooth, certainly, but not top-tier smooth.

002 · 01 Aug 2016, 04:46

I had a Type-S (JP layout) and now I have a standard HHKB.
The Type-S definitely had a scratchier feel overall compared to the standard, and the Realforce is again smoother than the standard HHKB. I would not lube the sliders on my standard HHKB personally as I don't think the friction is noticeable enough. I think the only switch that I've tried that I would consider to be smoother than a Realforce would be Honeywell Hall Effect, but I'm sure there's more exotic switches out there that are smoother again.

Crossfire · 01 Aug 2016, 06:08

002 wrote:I had a Type-S (JP layout) and now I have a standard HHKB.
The Type-S definitely had a scratchier feel overall compared to the standard, and the Realforce is again smoother than the standard HHKB. I would not lube the sliders on my standard HHKB personally as I don't think the friction is noticeable enough. I think the only switch that I've tried that I would consider to be smoother than a Realforce would be Honeywell Hall Effect, but I'm sure there's more exotic switches out there that are smoother again.

Lubed topre is my second favorite switch...nothing beats the capacitive BS. Stock topre is really nothing special. It lacks but has potential...it is that big of a difference, really.

002 · 01 Aug 2016, 06:42

I don't think I'm at the same fussiness tier as a lot of you guys.

GOD TIER > Is adversely affected by ping
SSS TIER > Annoyed by Topre friction < You are here
A TIER > Can detect a Topre fart
B TIER > Annoyed by HHKB friction
C TIER > Considers MX Brown distinctly tactile < Daniel Beardsmore is here
D TIER > Normal people < I am here
E TIER > Plebs

Wodan · 01 Aug 2016, 07:07

I have two Type-S HHKB (pro2, jp) and they both have a subtle scratchyness. It doesn't annoy me, in fact I embrace it. It compares pretty well with how brand new Cherry MX red feel and I love those.

Got to get a plain HHKB for comparison but I wanted to wait for it to sell on Massdrop finally. Feels like Elitekeyboards is preventing that from happening though.

Crossfire · 01 Aug 2016, 07:16

002 wrote: ↑I don't think I'm at the same fussiness tier as a lot of you guys.

GOD TIER > Is adversely affected by ping
SSS TIER > Annoyed by Topre friction < You are here
A TIER > Can detect a Topre fart
B TIER > Annoyed by HHKB friction
C TIER > Considers MX Brown distinctly tactile < Daniel Beardsmore is here
D TIER> Normal people < I am here
E TIER > Plebs

You would feel and embrace buttereh topre, that I am sure

Deep inside you're at least an A Tier afficionado

002 · 01 Aug 2016, 07:20

Truth is I am just too lazy to do the mod so I am convincing myself I don't care so I don't feel compelled to remove 1000 screws and fumble around with springs on the weekend -- or can you sufficiently apply the lube without taking the whole board apart?

Elrick · 01 Aug 2016, 07:25

Wodan wrote: ↑Got to get a plain HHKB for comparison but I wanted to wait for it to sell on Massdrop finally. Feels like Elitekeyboards is preventing that from happening though.

Hope Brian NEVER allows it out of his diseased hands.

HHKB should ONLY be sold at his place. Totally agree with him, holding all the HHKBs for US buyers

.

Crossfire · 01 Aug 2016, 07:27

BIngo!

Well, it seems it's already inevitable for you to lube the board. Sadly, you'll have to take it apart to do it properly. Take it as maintainence & cleaning work...it's only 2 hours of your time. Springs will king of stay inside the domes which usually stick pretty good to the pcb.

Crossfire · 01 Aug 2016, 07:30

Elrick wrote: ↑
Wodan wrote: ↑Got to get a plain HHKB for comparison but I wanted to wait for it to sell on Massdrop finally. Feels like Elitekeyboards is preventing that from happening though.
Hope Brian NEVER allows it out of his diseased hands.

HHKB should ONLY be sold at his place. Totally agree with him, holding all the HHKBs for US buyers .

I'm loving the way you hate those cute little pokemo...I mean HHKB's

adhoc · 01 Aug 2016, 08:17

Elrick wrote: ↑
Wodan wrote: ↑Got to get a plain HHKB for comparison but I wanted to wait for it to sell on Massdrop finally. Feels like Elitekeyboards is preventing that from happening though.
Hope Brian NEVER allows it out of his diseased hands.

HHKB should ONLY be sold at his place. Totally agree with him, holding all the HHKBs for US buyers .

Why all the butthurt over HHKB? Did a HHKB steal your high school sweetheart or something? BTW FYI HHKBs aren't sold in EU because FPU doesn't give a shit about us and won't walk the legs to get a certificate to sell it here.

And yeah, if your board is scratchy lube will definitely help. But it also changes the typing characteristic a lot over time. It honestly only gets better.

face · 01 Aug 2016, 09:00

After reading this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78226.0 I decided I'll give it some time. As I said it's 99% perfect and I probably would ruin it, trying to improve it. That happened to me so many times now - I always try to get the perfect thing and end up overdoing it, because it already was at the best point possible.

Also, I would have to order the lube, disassemble the board... Maybe in the future and then I will go directly for realforce purple sliders (which are the ones that are longer I think) and hypersphere rings.

It is also just my girlfriend that is annoyed by the sound and as long as she doesn't fix her stupid lenovo laptop fan...

Chyros · 01 Aug 2016, 10:37

002 wrote: ↑I don't think I'm at the same fussiness tier as a lot of you guys.

GOD TIER > Is adversely affected by ping
SSS TIER > Annoyed by Topre friction < You are here
A TIER > Can detect a Topre fart
B TIER > Annoyed by HHKB friction
C TIER > Considers MX Brown distinctly tactile < Daniel Beardsmore is here
D TIER> Normal people < I am here
E TIER > Plebs

LOL

Elrick · 01 Aug 2016, 11:05

adhoc wrote: ↑Why all the butthurt over HHKB? Did a HHKB steal your high school sweetheart or something?

Why all the Fanfare over this Calculator-sized Keyboard?

Never could understand how a totally, inefficient keyboard, with no numpad at all is so popular for you desperate people?

Maybe some one abused you as a child, now you won't look at a full sized keyboard again, instead you're addicted to a tiny children-sized keyboard and that, needs looking into by Professionals

.

adhoc · 01 Aug 2016, 11:30

Elrick wrote: ↑
adhoc wrote: ↑Why all the butthurt over HHKB? Did a HHKB steal your high school sweetheart or something?
Why all the Fanfare over this Calculator-sized Keyboard?

Never could understand how a totally, inefficient keyboard, with no numpad at all is so popular for you desperate people?

Maybe some one abused you as a child, now you won't look at a full sized keyboard again, instead you're addicted to a tiny children-sized keyboard and that, needs looking into by Professionals .

Just what in hell is wrong with you

Yeah, very sorry I have a different taste than you, clearly your opinion is superior to everyone. I'm not even going to start explaining why HHKB is a great out-of-the-box keyboard, because you're clearly not here for a discussion, but only for a fight.

bocahgundul · 01 Aug 2016, 13:11

adhoc wrote: ↑
Elrick wrote: ↑
adhoc wrote: ↑Why all the butthurt over HHKB? Did a HHKB steal your high school sweetheart or something?
Why all the Fanfare over this Calculator-sized Keyboard?

Never could understand how a totally, inefficient keyboard, with no numpad at all is so popular for you desperate people?

Maybe some one abused you as a child, now you won't look at a full sized keyboard again, instead you're addicted to a tiny children-sized keyboard and that, needs looking into by Professionals .
Just what in hell is wrong with you

Yeah, very sorry I have a different taste than you, clearly your opinion is superior to everyone. I'm not even going to start explaining why HHKB is a great out-of-the-box keyboard, because you're clearly not here for a discussion, but only for a fight.

Stabilized · 01 Aug 2016, 13:13

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would piggy back of the popularity of this thread to ask my own Topre fussiness related question.

Ever after opening up and putting in landing pads into my Leopold FC660C (and then removing them) I have had a problem with the stabilised keys. For some reason they seem to get a little bit stuck at the top of the stroke and have lost quite a lot of tactility (more of a mushy feel now). I also find that the keycaps on the stabilised keys can hit the plate if you strike them hard at the side of the key.

The solutions I have tried so far:
-- Tried copious amounts of lube (superlube and silicone grease)
-- Tried taking the domes off the pcb and aligning them carefully with the plate
-- Tried moving some of the stabiliser housings to other places on the plate
-- Tried no lube at all (used isopropyl to clean)
-- Tried a small amount of lube
-- Tried put less torque on the screws joining the pcb and plate

One other point is that the plastic clips that clip the stabiliser units to the plate are quite loose now, but surely the pressure of the whole assembly once the screws are tightened would be enough to stop this being a problem?

Anyway, would really appreciate any help, I am bothered to the extent that I haven't used my Leopold in months even though it used to be my favourite keyboard by far

Elrick · 02 Aug 2016, 02:38

Stabilized wrote: ↑ I am bothered to the extent that I haven't used my Leopold in months even though it used to be my favourite keyboard by far

Just a suggestion here, if you're still addicted to the Thorpie Phenomenon why not purchase a Realforce keyboard?

They are always 100% better constructed, than your common, rubbish-styled HHKB/Leopold which according to you lot here in this section, have clearly shown it doesn't perform at all (pity about paying for that type of non-performance

).

If you value this style of switch, then get a Realforce because I've got dozens that have never displayed anything like what you've mentioned plus they simply perform as expected. 100% Satisfaction with no excuses or lame defects, which is what a REAL Japanese Keyboard should be.

Suspect you, like others here bought a cheaply-made Chinese Model hence your problems exist. Get with the PLAN and buy a Japanese Made Keyboard instead and watch all those worries about an INFERIOR keyboard, disappear before your eyes and fingers

.