deskthority

Repeated something, please ignore, sorry.

zslane wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑I've asked the Massdrop admins to offer a 104-key board with a black acrylic casing (like the 61-key) and not the black/clear acrylic casing (like the 87-key). I don't expect them to update the site until Monday evening.

That would be pretty awesome. There's plenty of time left in the drop; I'm not in a huge hurry.

Please say you will also offer a full Bamboo 104 keyboard as well ?

There are still those that love having a full-sized keyboard done in Bambooo which can be altered in the future with stains or coatings to fully accentuate the organic properties of that brilliant Grass .

Elrick wrote: ↑

zslane wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑I've asked the Massdrop admins to offer a 104-key board with a black acrylic casing (like the 61-key) and not the black/clear acrylic casing (like the 87-key). I don't expect them to update the site until Monday evening.

That would be pretty awesome. There's plenty of time left in the drop; I'm not in a huge hurry.

Please say you will also offer a full Bamboo 104 keyboard as well ?

There are still those that love having a full-sized keyboard done in Bambooo which can be altered in the future with stains or coatings to fully accentuate the organic properties of that brilliant Grass .

It's already an option. Changed my order to that last night.

104 key with bamboo is available now.

XMIT wrote: ↑104 key with bamboo is available now.

HOT DAMN, you deserve a very wet kiss .

I'm really happy that the XMIT Hall Effect keyboard got to MassDrop!

I like smooth switches and therefore went to the MassDrop page to join the drop. However, a few things are still holding me back:
- The heavier 70g switches pair with only the bamboo case but not the black (acrylic?) case like this one:

I am a < TKL person, i.e. 75% or less. And the sexy look of this 60% fits my appetite.
[And Kudo to XMIT for this sexy looking improved design -- why all the Korean custom keyboard makers need to create acrylic cases with screws and bolts exposed on top of the frame when they can be just underneath.]

I like Gateron black, and I foresee I'll like the 70g Chinese Hall-Effect switches.

- I hope there can be full key remapping through firmware.

- I and many would like HHKB support on the 60%, i.e. mainly to have the split backspace. It can be done through:
-- having PCB support, and providing an optional DIY soldering kit and even with key-caps need in the kit.
-- having PCB support, and even make the backspace switch socket and the sockets of the two replacement switches hot-swappable, and then providing an optional kit for just swapping and plugging in.
I am willing to pay for such capability and the baseline is PCB supporting the split backspace.

Hi there Menuhin - it's hard to offer every combination. I sure wish I could.

I am offering a "spring replacement kit" if you want to change the weight of the switches yourself. It adds $5 and takes about 1.5-2 hours to rebuild a smaller 61-key board. That may be just your thing.

Many folks are asking about firmware remapping for the 61-key. I've known that this is a weak point of the boards for some time. Initially the board had NO "Fn" layer - it was unusable! We're working on full programming for these boards.

As for PCB support for multiple switch positions: that can't happen for technical reasons. Let's consider the split 2u backspace specifically. Most keyboards accomplish this by having different sets of holes, and perhaps having spots on the PCB where the usual Backspace switch is rotated 0 degrees and the split Backspace switches are rotated 180 degrees.

With this design, all the electronics for a single switch are on the PCB and take about 1u of space. Even without LEDs, the Hall sensors would be so close together that you might get spurious key presses.

Here's a photo of this region of the board, the business end:
The only way we're getting a split Backspace is with an entirely new PCB. I'm going to focus my efforts on programming features for now. We are exploring new PCBs like the fleXMIT layout mentioned earlier.

@XMIT
Professional reply as always! You must be very busy right now.
I just checked the fleXMIT design: a brilliant idea! I've seen similar design but not as neat by Red Scarf and some Korean board makers, but they do mostly just 713, instead of your 8456/7123 whole matrix.

It's a pity that there can never be HHKB layout support as the Hall-effect sensors are all soldered on the PCB but not inside the 'switches' themselves, if I now understand the implementation of this current model correctly -- I was thinking the implementation is having the individual switch as a holistic unit like those on the Honeywell Hall effect keyboard or Soviet Hall effect keyboard.
I have to think it over - I'm in the process of converting all my boards (75%, 65% and 60%) to the HHKB / Sun Type 5 layout. But a modern Hall-effect keyboard with RGB and potentially smoother than Gateron black and XMIT is working on the programmable firmwire.....! xD My head is exploding!

Similar to what Menuhin does, I remap all my keyboards one way or another to something close to the HHKB layout. A "standard" US ANSI layout works for me in this regard -- preferably with no hard-wired Fn key. Although I would prefer a split Backspace and split RShift, I can manage by remapping Backspace as Backslash, remapping RCtrl as Fn, and Fn+Esc = Backquote/Tilde.

So, the main thing holding me back from the XMIT HE Keyboard at this point is the programmability. I might hold off until this becomes a reality, perhaps in the next round or if there is a XMIT_HE_2.0.

The other thing holding me back is the lack of a 61-key black acrylic 70g model. This is not quite as limiting as the programmability because I could always replace the springs, but I would prefer to have 70g out of the box. I like the look of the bamboo, but realistically I doubt I would do the suggested annual maintenance.

Please know that I have great admiration and respect for this project. My comments are not meant as complaints, but merely as statements of preferences for consideration for possible future versions of the XMIT HE Keyboard.

Hypersphere wrote: ↑I doubt I would do the suggested annual maintenance.

I doubt that most users will too. I also expect that nearly all users will keep the boards indoors under moderate conditions and won't need to do this maintenance. But, hey - at least this shows you read the manual!

XMIT wrote: ↑
I also expect that nearly all users will keep the boards indoors under moderate conditions

Wasn't one of the original selling features being able to use the keyboard under water?

Can't wait to get my hands on that underwater keyboard!

fohat wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑I also expect that nearly all users will keep the boards indoors under moderate conditions

Wasn't one of the original selling features being able to use the keyboard under water?

Yes. You still can. The epoxy-coated PCB will be fine with it. (Though you may short out the USB bus now that the boards have a detachable connector. Best be careful with that, or solder in a cord if you're using it underwater most of the time).

I don't see a lot of users typing underwater. I do see plenty of users getting soda, coffee, tea, beer, wine, or maybe even baby drool on the boards and wanting to rinse them off. That should be fine, just avoid getting the USB port wet and make sure it dries thoroughly.

Bamboo is wood. Any wood absorbs water, expands and contracts, rots, and cracks. Bamboo is an incredibly durable wood that, like any fine hardwood, is extremely unlikely to do any of these things with proper treatment, but this isn't exactly a block of aluminum. These are material realities.

I signed up for this drop too - for the bamboo version, since I have no intention or need of typing under water.

I was wondering if anyone knows if there are bamboo keycaps available anywhere? It looks like the keyboard takes Cherry MX style caps, but I haven't been able to find anyone offering those in bamboo.
.

XMIT wrote: ↑

fohat wrote: ↑Bamboo is wood. Any wood absorbs water, expands and contracts, rots, and cracks. Bamboo is an incredibly durable wood that, like any fine hardwood, is extremely unlikely to do any of these things with proper treatment, but this isn't exactly a block of aluminum. These are material realities.

Can you simply remove all the internals of the Bamboo Keyboard successfully without damaging it?

I would like to apply a 2-part epoxy on the bamboo material and it needs to be applied everywhere, I only hope when it dries that all the components will fit back together with no problems and have it working again.

Nothing worse than taking something apart only to permanently destroy it.

Ignore my stupid Questions because I suspect it's best to leave the bamboo case as is.

Due to the fact I would rather have my bamboo keyboard covered with skin dirt, dust and grime because I've seen bamboo flooring which was uncoated and it looked gorgeous with it's stains which make it look old and worn out.

Would rather have an old looking keyboard case that's been abused rather than some kind of pristine keyboard that looks like it's never been used.

Thanks for designing this keyboard in this manner.

The keyboards come entirely apart with a Philips head screwdriver, a small flat head screwdriver to help all the housings out... and patience. No soldering needed!

Good news! It looks like we’ll have some sort of re-programming option available in a couple of weeks - after the drop ends but well before shipping. So, if you want to remap Ctrl, or Fn, or Caps Lock, or Esc or any other key, this is now possible!

Back story: I worked with a design and manufacturing partner on the board. They, in turn, worked with another partner for firmwares and microcontrollers. In fact, we switched from a previous partner because there was /no/ programming option with their offering.

Below is the response I received from the manufacturer, with some minor edits:

“They're making the firmware ready for end-users to re-program the keyboards. The function will be ready by the end of this month, which is in about 2 weeks. They said the interface might not look good, but they'll open it so the end-users can make their own interface.”

This was the #1 piece of feedback I’ve received in the past few days, and now, it looks like we have a path forward here!

I'm not real familiar with re-programming keyboards. All I've ever done is use the on-board layer configuration abilities of the Vortex Pok3r. How would one go about configuring ("programming"?) the keys of these HE boards? With some sort of Windows application? A web page?

zslane wrote: ↑I'm not real familiar with re-programming keyboards. All I've ever done is use the on-board layer configuration abilities of the Vortex Pok3r. How would one go about configuring ("programming"?) the keys of these HE boards? With some sort of Windows application? A web page?

I'm expecting a Windows application. It's not ideal but it's better than nothing.

What is considered ideal?

zslane wrote: ↑What is considered ideal?

That's a matter of opinion. I like things that work well on multiple platforms - Hasu's TMK, Soarer's Converter, xwhatsit. I really like things where I can either use a GUI or a text editor to make changes - that's Hasu's TMK.

A dedicated Windows GUI application for remapping is the status quo for many boards out there (e.g. Rosewill RGB80, Noppoo EC108). It's sufficient.

XMIT wrote: ↑

zslane wrote: ↑What is considered ideal?

That's a matter of opinion. I like things that work well on multiple platforms - Hasu's TMK, Soarer's Converter, xwhatsit. I really like things where I can either use a GUI or a text editor to make changes - that's Hasu's TMK.

A dedicated Windows GUI application for remapping is the status quo for many boards out there (e.g. Rosewill RGB80, Noppoo EC108). It's sufficient.

I have to disagree that a vendor-provided Windows app is sufficient. I've used the EC-108 configurator, and found it to be a barely-usable mess. I would consider a published configuration file format of any sort sufficient -- the approach used by Soarer's Converter would be ideal.

XMIT wrote: ↑So, if you want to remap Ctrl, or Fn, or Caps Lock, or Esc or any other key, this is now possible!

Does this mean programmability of the Fn-layer as well?

Thanks for bringing these keyboards to the community! ☺

XMIT wrote: ↑Good news! It looks like we’ll have some sort of re-programming option available in a couple of weeks - after the drop ends but well before shipping. So, if you want to remap Ctrl, or Fn, or Caps Lock, or Esc or any other key, this is now possible!

So i can swap caps lock and right control key ? Like it should be from the start .

overstrike wrote: ↑I have to disagree that a vendor-provided Windows app is sufficient. I've used the EC-108 configurator, and found it to be a barely-usable mess. I would consider a published configuration file format of any sort sufficient -- the approach used by Soarer's Converter would be ideal.

Fair, but that's all that I'm able to offer for this current group buy.

hkrak wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑So, if you want to remap Ctrl, or Fn, or Caps Lock, or Esc or any other key, this is now possible!

Does this mean programmability of the Fn-layer as well?

I believe so.

Well, with programmability in the 61-key model, and a 104-key model now available, I'd probably get both if I could get them with black acrylic cases. So close, yet so far away...

My only remaining concern is spring resistance, which I realize is changeable if I'm willing to rip open every single switch (which I'm really not). I am inclined towards the 50g because I am used to 45g MX reds, but we're told that the 50g HE switches are more like 35g, which might be too light with SA keycaps. When I tried SA keycaps on my Noppoo EC108, the combination of heavy keycaps and overly light resistance led to too many typing errors on a regular basis. On the other hand, MX blacks (on a Filco MJ2) were too stiff for me, even with SA keycaps, and I'm concerned the same would hold true for the 70g HE switches.

I really want to put SA keycaps on HE switches and have a typing feel equivalent to 40-45g MX reds (in terms of spring resistance). That is right in the middle of the two HE spring options, which makes me wonder which of the two wouldn't disappoint me. Not having tried any of the prototypes (with SA keycaps especially), I am so very torn, though the lack of the 70g option in a (black) acrylic case makes my dilemma sort of moot, I guess.

What has your experience been with SA keycaps on either or both types of switches, XMIT?

@zslane: From what I can gather from your questions and comments, it would appear that your spring weight preferences are similar to mine. From the information I have, I would be inclined to choose the 70g springs with an extra order of 50g springs as a back-up.

Being able to remap the Fn key is a must for me, and this is often not possible based on my experience with other keyboards that come with a Fn key already assigned. I would prefer to wait until it was certain that the Fn key could be reassigned.

In addition, the combination I would want is 61-key with a black acrylic case and 70-gram spring weight, and this set of options is not available in the current drop.

I am also drastically over-budget this year for keyboard-related purchases, especially in view of prior commitments for the F62/F77 and FSSK projects.

I hope there will be future drops for the XMIT HE keyboard with the options I am looking for -- and when my wallet is not filled with negative numbers.

@zslane: 61- and 104-key are available in black (opaque) acrylic. 87-key is available in black/clear acrylic. I'm not adding any more options soon - don't want to overwhelm the manufacturer.

SA key caps - including the Space bars - fit well on all of these boards. Though I don't much like SA (key tops are too shallow for a true spherical layout) I also find that switches feel "lighter" with them and would thus go with the 70g. Recall that the 70g is lighter than Cherry MX black.

After this is all done I'll think harder about how we might support multiple configurations. Everyone wants a different color key cap, or a different weight spring, or a different layout or body material. The easiest thing would be to re-design the entire board around a PCB/spring/slider "module" that simply drops into one of a number of different body types. I agree that a complete spring swap is time consuming.

When I'm not spending all my spare time responding to questions about these boards, I'll break out the calipers and maybe collaborate with swill (http://builder.swillkb.com/) to add options for generating plates for these boards.