Favorite (Windows) software?

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Daniel Beardsmore

11 Jun 2014, 23:01

Julle wrote:I hate to say this but underneath the Metro/RT nonsense Windows 8(.1) is a stable, reliable OS.
I was surprised how few problems I had after adopting it early. Bluescreen through Windows getting confused about the system cache and USB, and after exactly one week it broken the BCD, which took a week to sort out (a bug that goes back to Vista). I also had the whole GUI hang on one occasion. By my standards, and considering a lot of the trash I've worked with, that's not too shabby, although to be fair, Windows 8 is just a refurbished 7, which was just a refurbished Vista.

Now, if someone at dear old Microsoft could explain why 8.1 puts desktop apps on tiles of the same frigging colour as the icon itself so that you can't distinguish any of the icons from each other .......

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JotaCe

11 Jun 2014, 23:17

IvanIvanovich wrote:utorrent - I don't really like it anymore, but haven't found anything much better.
Switched to qbit torrent and couldn't be happier!

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wheybags

11 Jun 2014, 23:17

On that note - transmission is cool on linux and I gather it's cross platform

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ne0phyte
Toast.

11 Jun 2014, 23:21

I rarely use Torrent, but when I do I use Deluge.

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Julle

11 Jun 2014, 23:22

JotaCe wrote:
IvanIvanovich wrote:utorrent - I don't really like it anymore, but haven't found anything much better.
Switched to qbit torrent and couldn't be happier!
Qbittorrent is excellent.

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Muirium
µ

11 Jun 2014, 23:31

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:although to be fair, Windows 8 is just a refurbished 7, which was just a refurbished Vista.
Ain't that just the truth. I'm surprised by how many old Windows guys like 7 but hate 8 and Vista. There's not much between them UI wise outside of Metro. 7 and Vista in particular are hard to tell apart unless you live and breathe the platform.

As for pirating: I'm pleased to see "utorrent" fall out of ubiquity. It was giving my favourite letter of the Greek alphabet a bad name.

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SL89

11 Jun 2014, 23:40

Muirium wrote: As for pirating: I'm pleased to see "utorrent" fall out of ubiquity. It was giving my favourite letter of the Greek alphabet a bad name.
all of my private trackers still require utorrent and have yet to find a suitable replacement and its driving me nuts.

edit: gonna see if Deluge works with them all, thanks ne0phyte!
Last edited by SL89 on 11 Jun 2014, 23:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Hypersphere

11 Jun 2014, 23:49

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
Julle wrote:I hate to say this but underneath the Metro/RT nonsense Windows 8(.1) is a stable, reliable OS.
I was surprised how few problems I had after adopting it early. Bluescreen through Windows getting confused about the system cache and USB, and after exactly one week it broken the BCD, which took a week to sort out (a bug that goes back to Vista). I also had the whole GUI hang on one occasion. By my standards, and considering a lot of the trash I've worked with, that's not too shabby, although to be fair, Windows 8 is just a refurbished 7, which was just a refurbished Vista.

Now, if someone at dear old Microsoft could explain why 8.1 puts desktop apps on tiles of the same frigging colour as the icon itself so that you can't distinguish any of the icons from each other .......
Although my primary OS is Mac (OS X), I need to run a triple-OS lab/office (OS X, Linux, and Windows). I have not yet switched to Win 8.1 (currently running 7). However, one of my colleagues does some applications development in Windows, and he informs me that 8.1 appears to be much more efficient than 7. However, he cannot stand the Metro interface and uses the classic shell to get a UI that is more like Win 7.

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Daniel Beardsmore

11 Jun 2014, 23:52

Muirium wrote: As for pirating: I'm pleased to see "utorrent" fall out of ubiquity. It was giving my favourite letter of the Greek alphabet a bad name.
What do you consider to be wrong with nu?

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

11 Jun 2014, 23:57

I just find win8 not suitable for desktop usage, not to mention that few applications are actually optimized for it. And those app ribbons... are you crazy?!

Image

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 00:29

Those came along for the ride from Office — but people LOVE Office 2007! — when Sinofsky took over the Windows supreme strike tactical offensive strategic attack operations HQ division at the peak of his power. But then good old Ballmer panicked when he (rightly) sensed Sinofsky was a threat — now that he had total control over both significant wings of Microsoft — and kicked him out the company, in case Sinofsky curried Gates' favour and took the top job from him. Ah Ballmer, not only sleeping at the wheel, but purposefully crushing every chance they had to regain initiative.

Expect them to be stone dead in the next major version of Windows, if there's anyone still actually working on desktop interface in there.

DerpyDash_xAD

12 Jun 2014, 00:35

matt3o wrote:I just find win8 not suitable for desktop usage, not to mention that few applications are actually optimized for it. And those app ribbons... are you crazy?!

Image
Ribbons are the largest pile of bullcrap ever to exist. They turn a perfectly decent peice of software into a pile of junk.

The Metro UI isn't too bad - it makes the windows key obscenely powerful, my productivity jumped when I installed the beta because I barely touched my mouse.

DerpyDash_xAD

12 Jun 2014, 00:37

Muirium wrote:Those came along for the ride from Office — but people LOVE Office 2007! — when Sinofsky took over the Windows supreme strike tactical offensive strategic attack operations HQ division at the peak of his power. But then good old Ballmer panicked when he (rightly) sensed Sinofsky was a threat — now that he had total control over both significant wings of Microsoft — and kicked him out the company, in case Sinofsky curried Gates' favour and took the top job from him. Ah Ballmer, not only sleeping at the wheel, but purposefully crushing every chance they had to regain initiative.

Expect them to be stone dead in the next major version of Windows, if there's anyone still actually working on desktop interface in there.
I'll be praying, just in case they're all morons.

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 00:49

I'm sure the ribbon was Sinofsky's baby. Usually, what you see from Microsoft is what it's like inside Microsoft. They're intensely political, and every squabble between teams and braindead decision from on high winds up right there in the product. Ever since he left the door, the people who implemented his vision will have been backpedalling for their lives. There's nothing worse than being on the losing side of history. When you're in a place like that, you're either working on the new hotness or making your way to the door.

But then they could just be really lazy and leave it be. That's pretty much their style these days, and Nadella isn't exactly into Windows, so…

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Daniel Beardsmore

12 Jun 2014, 01:19

The ribbon isn't necessarily inherently flawed, but it contains several fundamental blunders. The first one is consistency: you can't follow Office ribbons with your eye because there's no flow to the arrangement. Some parts of Office's UI are accessed by virtually invisible arrows at the bottom-right corner of ribbon tabs. Remind me — the ribbon is supposed to do away with hard to follow UI, so why are bits of the UI shoved into the title bar and the rest of it in a higgledy heap? (The bar that other MS teams have decided should not only have no quick access toolbar, but that the window title doesn't belong in the ............ "the bar" either. What do you call a bar that doesn't have a title in it?)

The other massive flaw is that no thought was ever given to the literally millions of people who actually do know where everything in the menu system and toolbars is. Apple solved this: put a box in the Help menu that points to where the menu is that you're looking for. The ribbon could have had the same: a "I promise to go directly there myself later, but for just this moment, just this once, please, pretty please, with Cherry on top, tell me where you hid the control to toggle the style palette" box.

There are other gotchas. You've got to learn to deal with inconsistent persistent state: while toolbars and menus always remain or revert to a neutral state, the ribbon does not.

Most software falls into two camps: a) easy, b) hard. Easy software doesn't need a ribbon as there really aren't enough controls. Adobe Reader for example: all most people need is the bookmarks sidebar, find, print, zoom and rotate. Browsers: back, forward, refresh, search.

Whether the ribbon helps people discover all the features of hard software (such as Word) without training, I don't know. I suspect that it won't, as people will simply zone out at the huge mess of icons. Training seems to be de-emphasised by a society that's no longer interested in investing, and filled of people who would respond to investment with disloyalty anyway (they'd take their trained mind straight to another company for a few more quid). In such a disintegrated culture, the ribbon is a barrel-scraping Band-Aid in a last-ditch effort to see if a world of disaffected, disillusioned workers might finally figure out how to use Word on their own — people who still don't know about managed numbering or what a stylesheet is, or automated TOC and indexing, or any of its other myriad features. (What's more sad is how much Word retails for considering that it's largely unchanged since Word 6 in the early 90s. I figured out how to use it from just looking at the menus and toolbars. Word hit a functional limit a long time ago or, at least, as far as Microsoft's imagination is able to carry it.)

</rant>

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 01:38

Oh, hey, I nominate Microsoft Word!

Fortunately, the world moved on past Word… almost. If it weren't for change tracking, many of us could be free from it completely. Microsoft won its file format victory so long ago, that they forget how irrelevant that can be when everybody else speaks it as well as they do.

If I was them, I'd make every version of Office use new formats for every app (just like the "good" old days) and save to them by default; to keep the competition on their toes. The last thing Office needs is viable alternatives. The ideal position is begrudging, resentful, acceptance from users all over the world. They're letting that slip more now than I ever imagined a decade ago. On Windows too.

Be free: write plaintext. The only thing we'll still be reading in a thousand years. Or maybe 20…

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Daniel Beardsmore

12 Jun 2014, 01:43

I nominate Muirium to devise a plain-text format with automated index and TOC generation, document tree, internal navigation, external hyperlinks etc (obviously illustration will become obsolete — HHKB sales will go up as everyone sets about replacing their pictures with 1000-word essays). Note that you can't fall back to the resource fork as Apple did with SimpleText (though all that offered was styles and images).

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 01:47

I delegate the task to this guy:

http://fletcherpenney.net/multimarkdown/

He's done a pretty good job so far. Markdown has been all the rage for so many years now that it's probably in this for the long haul. If not, then as its name suggests, there's not much markup to it; and so the naked text files are eminently readable.

Somehow I doubt .doc files will be much more use in a few generations than all those lurid early 80s fan fictions are today, stored on cassette tapes.

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Daniel Beardsmore

12 Jun 2014, 01:56

Good luck with that.

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Hypersphere

12 Jun 2014, 02:17

There is something to be said for composing documents in a text editor and then if you really need additional formatting to add it after you have your thoughts captured in plain text.

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 02:46

Indeed there is. But everything in moderation. I spent a fair while in the "minimalist writing environment" asylum before settling on a text editor for once and for all, and moving on to obsessing over keyboards!

Futzing over fonts and styles is no way to work, though, you are quite right. Quit fooling with your tools and get on with it! (Where "it" = digging ever deeper into keyboards in my case, evidently…)

IvanIvanovich

12 Jun 2014, 03:10

To me, the biggest problems with the ribbon interface is that it seems little thought was given to it's layout (mostly that it crowds things up on the far left instead of spreading out to the width of the open explorer window, which in turn could also reduce the vertical screen space it takes up) and that it often shows options that have no relevance to the context. Also it's largely redundant as most important options are on the context menu anyway even if you don't know the keyboard shortcut. But then it was mostly put there to have large icons to make certain things easier for tablet user. It was also made slightly less shitty on 8.1 than it was on 8 in both desktop and tablet use. Generally I leave it collapsed though so I don't have to look at it.

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fifted

12 Jun 2014, 18:38

Goodness, I didn't quite expect so much on the OS itself!

Speaking of text file format, I use todo.txt to track my tasks, and specifically todotxt.net on Windows. Purely keyboard interface, you know?

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 18:48

That reminds me: Dropbox!

I use Notational Velocity for notes on OS X, but as text is text and Dropbox is Dropbox: my files are completely cross platform. Also use them via Nebulous Notes on iPad. Just as important to keeping me together as email now.

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Hypersphere

12 Jun 2014, 18:50

They should rename the ribbon as "the tapeworm".

As for MS Office, I am using 2010 for Windows and 2011 for Mac. The Mac version enables me to pare down the active window so that nothing shows across the top; just a tabula rasa. If I need to recall something from a menu, the classic global headings (File, Edit, View, ...) are available on the Mac menu bar. However, I am trying to wean myself from MS Office and use LibreOffice instead.

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 19:24

If Windows had a tapeworm, it'd be nice and thin. Clearly not.

Yes folks, if the Atkins diet, the juice diet, and stomach staples just aren't cutting it for you on your quest to reach the outside world beyond your trailer, try a tapeworm: mother nature's secret answer.

Um, as for software, what's that cross platform text editor the cool kids like? It's alright.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

12 Jun 2014, 19:41

getting back on topic:

- chrome
- 7zip
- VLC
- Speccy
- Picasa
- Teamviewer (to fix relatives pcs)
- Notepad++
- Foxit Reader
- CPU-Z
- VirtualBox
- Paint.NET
- SyncBack
- RealVNC
- Quicktime Lite (actually not needed anymore)
- Sublime Text
- Inkscape (not strictly windows)
- PuTTY
- WinSCP

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Muirium
µ

12 Jun 2014, 19:49

Sublime: check!

WinGlobe is kind of cool, if you like geography especially. I used it to keep system time in sync back in the days that wasn't a standard OS feature.

http://www.djuga.net/winglobe.html

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ne0phyte
Toast.

12 Jun 2014, 20:00

Um, as for software, what's that cross platform text editor the cool kids like? It's alright.
Sublime vim soon it'll be neovim. I am SO looking forward to the first release.
Image
The new plugin architecture, fully async., and the vimscript -> lua transpiler will be awesome for performance and extensibility. They are also doing a full code refactoring and they are getting rid of all the legacy crap [almost] nobody needs anymore so the code will be a lot smaller, more readable and especially more maintainable.

The development was crowdfunded here: https://www.bountysource.com/teams/neovim/fundraiser
Development happens here: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/

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wheybags

12 Jun 2014, 20:13

I have mixed feelings about neovim...
On the one hand - yes it's nasty ancient c code, on the other - can you not just do all this as part of the main vim project?

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