A new US Republican thread 2016

[vivalarevolución]

Oh great, wouldn't that create a censorship bandwagon?

Perhaps another method is creating a guide for how not to feed the trolls and how to douse flame wars.

I was probably unclear, but I meant a per-user setting so that I could ignore threads that weren't of interest to me (politics, etc). That wouldn't cause any censorship.

Oh I see, like a personal ignore button. Now that could be useful and an emphatic click on the button would be somewhat satisfying.

[fohat]

Trump is offering free tickets because there is a surplus and nobody wants them.

[jacobolus]

Sorry, I promise I won’t stick around to chat here. But this is just too funny/sad.

Rick Perry accepted the Energy Secretary nomination (not to mention wanted to abolish the Energy Department in his GOP debate 4 years ago) without having the faintest idea what the US Energy Department actually does, and is now scrambling to learn the ELI5 version. (Compare to Obama’s two Secretaries of Energy who were famous nuclear physicists.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/us/p ... trump.html

[webwit]

I also know someone from the current administration, who had the faintest idea about what a secretary of state does, became one anyway (for diplomacy before military force), and without the faintest idea of the working of drones, became a leading proponent of continuing and expanding drone bombing. A rather bloody choice, because if you drop bombs in the near vicinity of adversaries based on inaccurate intelligence, you're gonna take a lot of innocent victims with you. But luckily, no one cared, and the story becomes even more weird as the person continued to run for president, and many, many people voted for her, because they too, didn't care about those innocent people murdered from afar. Hillaryous.

[rmendis]

I also know someone from the current administration, who had the faintest idea about what a secretary of state does, became one anyway (for diplomacy before military force), and without the faintest idea of the working of drones, became a leading proponent of continuing and expanding drone bombing. A rather bloody choice, because if you drop bombs in the near vicinity of adversaries based on inaccurate intelligence, you're gonna take a lot of innocent victims with you. But luckily, no one cared, and the story becomes even more weird as the person continued to run for president, and many, many people voted for her, because they too, didn't care about those innocent people murdered from afar. Hillaryous.

Which is why it's generally a bad idea to appoint inexperienced people to important government positions, regardless of which party you support. That's common sense logic that sorely seems to be lacking throughout this era of hyper-partisan politics, both in the US and other countries.

(Can't believe that my first post on DA is political. Back to keyboards, now.)

[andrewjoy]

Personally i would rather have someone with less experience who is not corrupt or more accurately much less corrupt.

In an ideal world the government would just be a sort of admin / organisation body where all the important decisions are taken after extensive scientific studies into what is the best option, opinion should not factor into the matter.

For example we know that CO2 rise is causing the climate to change , there are 1000s upon 1000s of studies showing this, so why does the opinion of a politician need to factor into the debate ? I mean look at this muppet https://youtu.be/U5yNZ1U37sE?t=20 hows is that even part of politics.

[webwit]

The first problem is that while, in this particular issue, I do think CO2 rise is causing climate change, in general science isn't what it used to be, because many scientists (possibly much to the chagrin of real ones) bargain for budgets and want to direct opinion instead of fact. Even Hawking got into politics, to get that EU budget. He doesn't give a fuck if people get bombed or, more ordinary, over-taxed, he wants that budget. NASA has those stinky containers in orbit (a long way from the old ambition from going to the moon) and keeps pushing out employees singing rock songs and posting cool photos on facebook and AMA on reddit, for marketing, for budget. That doesn't help ordinary people trust scientists, even when they are right, to help them instead of themselves. And it gives people who want those votes ammo.

[vivalarevolución]

It's officially Trump's American now. Good luck to [the well being of] everyone. Enjoy boys and girls!

[seebart]

It's officially Trump's American now. Good luck to everyone. Enjoy boys and girls!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Wow. Let's see anyone actually live up to those promises …

[fohat]

How transcendentally hypocritical.

If he could, or would, do even a small fraction of what he claimed that he was going to do, it would be great.

But in fact, he simply recited a 17-minute list of everything that is not going to happen in the next 4 years.

I got through the whole thing without throwing up, but I am more fearful than ever of what his minions have planned.

"We are going to give America back to the people .... " -- I don't think so.

[vivalarevolución]

I haven't watched it, because why listen to that voice, but I read it. Wasn't as extreme of a speech as I thought it would be. What scares me more is the people around him and an unchecked Congress. I'll have to up my donations to groups that I support and engage in a bit of activism.

[webwit]

For people for change. Putting People First. It's the economy stupid!

- Bill Clinton 1992.

How good the speech writer is, is irrelevant.

[jacobolus]

Trump’s new immigration ban (blocking US permanent residents from returning home after vacation, based on their country of citizenship, blocking top students from attending US universities, breaking up families) is a crass policy from a racial/religious bigot. It’s more than needlessly and sadistically cruel; it’s downright un-American.

But the GOP congress and GOP voters are responsible for accepting this. If the GOP congress wants, they can overturn this action with legislation at any time. If they don’t, it’s because the GOP and GOP voters have turned against democracy and fundamental American values, and have embraced small-minded parochial racism.

For essentially all Americans, supporting or even passively condoning this order is tantamount to spitting on our own ancestors. Everyone living in a district or state with GOP congressmen or senators has a patriotic duty to call their representatives and make it clear that this is beyond the pale. (That means you, Kurplop. Despite your shameful vote for Trump, I have enough faith in your patriotism and self respect and basic humanity to expect you to come to the right side of history on this one.)

The courts will throw this order out as illegal (and unconstitutional), eventually. But in the mean time it is causing serious direct harm to innocent people, and permanently damaging the reputation of the USA.

* * *

Also, Trump just put Steve Bannon, a propagandist and antisemitic white supremacist without relevant experience and with no accountability (e.g. didn’t need Senate confirmation), on the “principals committee” of his National Security Council, and removed the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Bannon has a goal of dissolving NATO and the European Union.

Apparently conspiracy theories and racist propaganda are now more important to national security than intelligence community or military leadership.

[fohat]

I am trying to stay away from this miasma, but

[seebart]

I could not agree with you more on this immigration ban jacobolus, temporary or not. The situation seems quite chaotic right now but that may be emulated by online coverage I'm not sure.

Trump just put Steve Bannon, a propagandist and antisemitic white supremacist without relevant experience and with no accountability (e.g. didn’t need Senate confirmation), on the “principals committee” of his National Security Council, and removed the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Bannon has a goal of dissolving NATO and the European Union.

This is the real story for me, months ago during the campaign I read that Bannon was the "brains" behind Trump, back then I wasn't so sure now I am convinced that is the case. He seems to play a central role in "team Trump" and from his breitbart time I think we all know what his general perspective is. Dissolving NATO and the European Union are ambitious goals though. The brexit is not universal to the EU, it will take much more.

The man behind Trump? Still Steve Bannon;
In the 10 days since the inauguration, Bannon has rapidly amassed power in the West Wing.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/d ... non-234347

[kbdfr]

Trump’s new immigration ban (blocking US permanent residents from returning home after vacation, based on their country of citizenship, blocking top students from attending US universities, breaking up families) […]

I think it is just politics made by someone who has not the slightest idea of (nor probably interest in) which implications any action taken can have.
Basically it's shoot first, ask questions later.

But that's probably something he and his team will start taking into consideration at some moment.
And it will be even worse.

[chuckdee]

I could not agree with you more on this immigration ban jacobolus, temporary or not. The situation seems quite chaotic right now but that may be emulated by online coverage I'm not sure.

I'm not sure what's worse... the ban, or his reaction to the chaos and hardship caused by it.

"It's working out very nicely," Trump told reporters Saturday. "You see it at the airports. You see it all over."

Is he just tone-deaf? Or that arrogant?

[XMIT]

I've gone back and forth on the best way that someone in my position can effect change. My current thinking is that a donation to the ACLU will go further than anything else.

Does anyone else here read Hacker News? That's how I found this link: http://avc.com/2017/01/make-america-hate-again/

"Make no mistake about this. These orders are not policy. They are politics. They are the politics of hate. [...] And we must rise up as a country against them."

[fohat]

the best way that someone in my position can effect change

With the iron fist of the radical ultra-right rapidly closing in from all branches of government, justice and reason may soon be squeezed out altogether.

As much as I have ranted and raged about this for the past year, I am afraid that it is turning out even worse than my worst fears. Trump is a clueless imbecile, but the minions hiding behind his aprons are the worst of the worst.

[seebart]

But there is growing protest, and not just on the street:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/o ... ake-234375

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/t ... ham-234342

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 51641.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN15E2AC

[chuckdee]

Interesting bit from Scott Adams:

Scott Adams, who as far back as July 2016 predicted Trump's victory, now finds the future harder to foresee. "If Trump is a Master Persuader, as I have been telling you for over a year, he just solved his biggest problem with immigration, and you didn’t notice. The biggest problem is that his supporters on the right want more immigration control than he can (or should) deliver while his many critics on the left want far less. Normally when you negotiate, there is only one party on the other side. But in this case, Trump is negotiating two extremes in two different directions. It’s the toughest possible situation. Best case scenario is that 40% of the country want you dead when it’s all over. Not good.

"So what does a President Trump do when he is in an impossible situation? According to the Hitler Filter, he does more Hitler stuff, such as being more extreme than anyone expected with his recent immigration declarations. That filter accurately predicted he would be 'worse' once elected. Sure enough, his temporary immigration ban is more extreme than most people expected. If things never get worse from this point on, we would have to question the Hitler Filter. But if things get worse still, the Hitler Filter is looking good.

"Compare to the Persuasion Filter. This filter says Trump always opens with an extreme first offer so he has room to negotiate to the middle. The temporary ban fits that model perfectly. On the immigration topic alone, both the Hitler Filter and the Persuasion Filter predict that we get to exactly the point we are at today. Let’s call that a tie in terms of predictive power. The hard part is predicting what happens next. [...]

"Trump’s temporary immigration ban set a mental anchor in your brain that is frankly shocking. It will make his eventual permanent immigration plan ('extreme vetting') look tame by comparison. The Persuasion Filter says that’s his strategy. Because that’s ALWAYS his strategy. He acts the same way every time. He wrote a book about it. He talks about it publicly. Then he does it right in front of us, over and over. And no matter how many times he does it, half the country still thinks the opening offer is the real one.

"I've mentioned in this blog a few times that persuasion works even when the subject of the persuasion recognizes all the techniques as they happen. This is a perfect case. The left has been watching Trump make big offers and dial them back for the past year. And yet they still think this time it will be different. The Persuasion Filter says 70-year old Trump will act the same way today as he has for the past several decades: Big first offer, then negotiate." (Scott Adams):

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1565322257 ... mmigration

-----

Also relevant:

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2017/01 ... t-either/

[webwit]

[Mr.Nobody]

I hope he didn't grab her by the pussy

[chuckdee]

Yeah, he was wrong too. Two wrongs never make one of them right.

[seebart]

Very interesting and slightly disturbing reads on recent events:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ry/514868/

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial ... .ocy1gxe0g

[webwit]

Is that really written by Eliot Cohen?

What does he advise? Waterboarding, parading him around naked, or some other kind of torture?

[seebart]

Is that really written by Eliot Cohen?

What does he advise? Waterboarding, parading him around naked, or some other kind of torture?

No, he advises more trolling whilst wedding bombing trumps hair.

[andrewjoy]

Trump’s new immigration ban (blocking US permanent residents from returning home after vacation, based on their country of citizenship, blocking top students from attending US universities, breaking up families) is a crass policy from a racial/religious bigot. It’s more than needlessly and sadistically cruel; it’s downright un-American.

You mean the list of countries that was drawn up by the Obama administration ?

I agree that its stupid to block people that where already in the US or have ties in the US or people who where already in the air or have to travel through a US hub airport. Most of this issue has been resolved by a ruling by a judge who said if you where already on the way to the US , or in the air at the time your good.

But this is not a ban as such, its a temporary block for 90 days whist new immigration and visa processes are put in place for this group of countries. This is standard practice when implementing new visa processes and it happens all the time from all different countries.

Its inconvenient for people but quite frankly thats just too bad. Visiting or moving to a country is not a right, any country has the right to let in who it wants and if they don't want to let in people from that area until they can get good checks in place that 100% legal and 100% fine, there is nothing strange or evil about it.

Trump was elected to implement this policy in a free democratic election (apart from all that nasty election fraud by the democrats but they still did not win ). If you disagree with it fine that is your right in a free society, but he was elected on this mandate and won, and he is doing exactly what he said he would do, in fact its LESS harsh than he said in his campaign , he said a "total ban on all muslims".

Honestly i hate to defend Trump , but the regressive left don't make it easy.

Very interesting and slightly disturbing reads on recent events:

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial ... .ocy1gxe0g

"The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime"

I am sorry but when did Trump or his administration say ANYTHING about such groups?

ON Muslims you have a point , he said a "ban on all muslims entering the US" but thats not what he has done (see above) , there is a temporary ban whist new visa regulations and checks are sorted out.

I hope he didn't grab her by the pussy

LOL

Good job he did not , that thing would bite his hand off.

The woman is terrible! She is doing a good job with the whole brexit thing ( sure i don't agree with it but if your going to do it , do it right)


But yes , discrimination based on religion is terrible




Oh wait sorry , its only bad when trump does it

[webwit]

Is that really written by Eliot Cohen?

What does he advise? Waterboarding, parading him around naked, or some other kind of torture?

No, he advises more trolling whilst wedding bombing trumps hair.

A gentleman and a scholar...
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/State ... _0305.html