Please, don't feed the trolls.

[XMIT]

A new forum member from eastern Asia has been posting actively lately.

While I am delighted to see them share recycler finds and other interesting items worth buying, and will happily pursue some of these leads if they are worthwhile, I'm disappointed at the direction that these threads have gone. I expect more from everyone involved.



In an attempt to not "feed the trolls", I am making a point to not respond on some of the threads in question. You should not either. I'd like to open this thread up to positive, meaningful feedback to this forum member and other new community members in the future. The point of this thread is that it focuses on community issues, and isn't under any one's control per se (though I may serve as a moderator and/or call upon matt3o to close this thread if it runs amok).

My feedback to this community member:
This is an international forum. Folks from across the EU, North America, South America, and Asia are here.
We range in ages from 14 or so through 70s (are there some even older folks here?).
Many of us have children. Many of us want threads that are safe to read at work.
Humor standards vary wildly by culture. If you mean for something to be funny, please say so!
Native languages vary wildly. If you think something is lost in translation (literally), please double-post in your original language!
I generally come here for fairly focused keyboard discussion particularly on the "keyboards" and "classifieds" sub-forums. Please keep things on topic.
Thread subject lines must be meaningful. The first posts or several posts - particularly for Classifieds - should be meaningful and contain an overview of the current state of things.

I won't "promote" the threads or posts of someone I believe to be a troll by responding. If no one responds than the thread falls off the Spy and likely dies. To others: when responding, consider: is the response itself worth the attention it calls to the thread?

Let's all be civil. There are places here if you want to rant and rave (like here, in Off-topic) but the Keyboards and Marketplace should remain fairly focused.

[seebart]

Since this exact issue has occupied me slightly in the last couple of weeks I appreciate this post, personally I have come to a similair if not more passive conclusion for myself, but I think your general thoughts here are the same most of us are having. I know others have also taken up this issue very recently.

[vivalarevolución]

Now I'm interested in where this drama might be occuring and who is involved.

[kbdfr]

I would suggest bumping this thread when it is dawn in Eastern Asia

It would be a shame if the guy in question missed the fact a thread has been created about him

[XMIT]

It would be a shame if the guy in question missed the fact a thread has been created about him

Well it's more general than any one individual. I've heard from others on different keyboard communities (folks I known in real life) that they'd love to become more active on DT but are somewhat intimidated in doing so.

I don't come to DT for political discussion or to get into arguments with people. If I want more of that all I have to do is go on a walk. I come to DT for the keyboards.

[seebart]

I agree with XMIT, I tried talking to another relaively new user here about this and got an astounding response, without going into detail this person was very upset, offended and angry by offtopic post made by myself and others, some of which were of political nature and quite sarcastic in tone. While most of us may find these posts harmless others may be offended or intimidated in some way.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I find it very difficult to believe that Deskthority is intimidating, especially by the odd political debate that can be quite safely ignored. What on earth are these people afraid of?

I still remember being too afraid to buy a router, because the technical people I knew couldn't get NAT to work on their own routers. Yet, what other way was there to attach a second computer to the broadband connection? (This was when all you got was a cable modem, not a router, and I had ports I needed open to the outside world). After thinking about it long and hard, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't find any explanation for NAT being difficult (which it isn't, not in its basic form anyway!) and bought a router. And getting ports opened up to my Mac was easy! (This is when I was using Mac OS 9.1 and running HTTP, FTP and SMTP servers.) Nothing to be afraid about!

Socially I think these people are the problem, not Deskthority or anyone here. They need to learn to deal with humanity! Don't let them suck away any life out of people.

As for the topics in question, it does strike me that people are definitely fanning the flames and creating most of the problem they are subsequently railing against! Hence the popcorn — from the moment that topic existed I wondered how long it would take for it to descend into a verbal bloodbath, even when that was entirely avoidable! It's both sad and amusing at the same time.

[Khers]

While I've not failed to see the topics in question over the last couple of weeks, I've decided to not get involved at all, for the exact reason that you bring up, XMIT. I'm therefore glad you've created this thread.

Other than that, I very much agree with what Beardsmore wrote:

[...] It's both sad and amusing at the same time.

I can't quite decide whether the sadness or the amusement dominates, but I fear that the sadness is on the verge of tipping.

[Slom]

Humor standards vary wildly by culture. If you mean for something to be funny, please say so!
Native languages vary wildly. If you think something is lost in translation (literally), please double-post in your original language!

On thing I would like to add is that there are two points where things can get lost in translation, once from your language to english and then from english to the language of the reader.

[vivalarevolución]

I don't come to DT for political discussion or to get into arguments with people. If I want more of that all I have to do is go on a walk. I come to DT for the keyboards.

What I'm wondering is how your walks result in political discussion and arguments. What kind of walks are you going on?!

[Khers]

I don't come to DT for political discussion or to get into arguments with people. If I want more of that all I have to do is go on a walk. I come to DT for the keyboards.

What I'm wondering is how your walks result in political discussion and arguments. What kind of walks are you going on?!

I was wondering that as well, but I just assumed Texans don't like pedestrians

[XMIT]

I don't come to DT for political discussion or to get into arguments with people. If I want more of that all I have to do is go on a walk. I come to DT for the keyboards.

What I'm wondering is how your walks result in political discussion and arguments. What kind of walks are you going on?!

I'm somewhat joking, but, I do not share the religious, political, or even athletic beliefs of many of my immediate neighbors. We're still friendly but knowing the winner of the most recent (American) football game doesn't interest me in the slightest.

[seebart]

One thing I am certain of and I will tell you all; this "don't feed the trolls" will not work with our Chinese fellow. He's having so much fun with his threads apparently he cannot quit. matt3o locked his thread, the next day he just opened another one, that's a very clear response. Zero respect right there. Mu would have been "on top of this" but that's worthless now.

[Khers]

I don't come to DT for political discussion or to get into arguments with people. If I want more of that all I have to do is go on a walk. I come to DT for the keyboards.

What I'm wondering is how your walks result in political discussion and arguments. What kind of walks are you going on?!

I'm somewhat joking, but, I do not share the religious, political, or even athletic beliefs of many of my immediate neighbors. We're still friendly but knowing the winner of the most recent (American) football game doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Haha, that's sort of reminiscent of my current neighborhood. Up until we moved here, I never had an issue with the fact that I had no interest whatsoever of football as many of our neighbors down town didn't either. When moving out to our current suburban neighborhood, however, I quickly realized that football (or ice hockey for that matter) was the main discussion topic among the people in the area.

Fun fact: my college friends stopped inviting me for their game nights after me and a friend accidentally burst into laughter at their reaction on the wrong team scoring a goal.

[XMIT]

One thing I am certain of and I will tell you all; this "don't feed the trolls" will not work with our Chinese fellow. He's having so much fun with his threads apparently he cannot quit. matt3o locked his thread, the next day he just opened another one, that's a very clear response. Zero respect right there. Mu would have been "on top of this" but that's worthless now.

Now that they see the sort of response they can get from us, nothing will help. I think that ending the response and staying strictly on topic talking about keyboards will do as much as anything can.

If you go and look at the post history for this one individual you'll see that they started by responding in other threads, then offering feedback, and then, slowly over time, turning into a troll. All of their behavior was rewarded with further attention and responses so they kept it up.

Mu had a knack for pithy, quick responses that would get people in line.

[seebart]

One thing I am certain of and I will tell you all; this "don't feed the trolls" will not work with our Chinese fellow. He's having so much fun with his threads apparently he cannot quit. matt3o locked his thread, the next day he just opened another one, that's a very clear response. Zero respect right there. Mu would have been "on top of this" but that's worthless now.

Now that they see the sort of response they can get from us, nothing will help. I think that ending the response and staying strictly on topic talking about keyboards will do as much as anything can.

If you go and look at the post history for this one individual you'll see that they started by responding in other threads, then offering feedback, and then, slowly over time, turning into a troll. All of their behavior was rewarded with further attention and responses so they kept it up.

Mu had a knack for pithy, quick responses that would get people in line.

Your are right of course, it will be interesting to see if everybody is able to check oneself and keep composure whilst being flamed. For me personally this means I will steer clear of those threads altogether.

[infodroid]

It is a wicked thing when people complain about offense as a way to shut down a discussion they disagree with or that they do not consider to be in good taste.

I don't believe anybody has a right not to be offended. In fact we all have something like the opposite, an obligation to listen to opposing viewpoints and to respond to them in a mature way.

As long as so-called "troll" discussions are self-contained in the off-topic area, I don't see the problem.

But if people are being disruptive in on-topic threads then this is another matter because it is reducing the quality of DT as a resource and discussion forum.

[vivalarevolución]

I don't come to DT for political discussion or to get into arguments with people. If I want more of that all I have to do is go on a walk. I come to DT for the keyboards.

What I'm wondering is how your walks result in political discussion and arguments. What kind of walks are you going on?!

I'm somewhat joking, but, I do not share the religious, political, or even athletic beliefs of many of my immediate neighbors. We're still friendly but knowing the winner of the most recent (American) football game doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Ah yes, know the feeling, hence, why I spend so much time on message boards rather than engage in the usual small talk.

[lancre]

Although I've not been contributing to any of the posts about this subject or any related subjects, I must admit to have been frequenting GeekHack somewhat more regularly than I was before. It just felt a bit weird around here lately.

[fohat]

able to check oneself and keep composure

Similar to a problem that I have with my wife.

She will lead with something like: "You don't have to answer or say anything ...." and then state something that is blatantly false or obviously out of line or out of context, and then just leave it hanging there. If I do not protest immediately, she behaves as if I had accepted whatever she said as fact.

And if I protest or correct her, then she flames up with "You always have to have the last word, don't you?" Which of course I wouldn't - if a valid resolution had been reached.

[seebart]

Ha yes I know exactly what you are talking about fohat; BUT...that interaction is in real life and you and your lady know each other very well so that's a bit different to our online problem. Still, the core communication issue is the same, I'd say online it's more complicated once tolling and sarcasm etc. are involved.

[HAL]

... If I do not protest immediately, she behaves as if I had accepted whatever she said as fact.
And if I protest or correct her, then she flames up with "You always have to have the last word, don't you?" Which of course I wouldn't - if a valid resolution had been reached.

Thats what I call a classic LOOSE-LOOSE-situation

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Marriage is like news programmes on television — all news is bad news, and all marriages seem to be hailstorms of bullets that lifelong bachelors have dodged successfully.

[vivalarevolución]

able to check oneself and keep composure

Similar to a problem that I have with my wife.

She will lead with something like: "You don't have to answer or say anything ...." and then state something that is blatantly false or obviously out of line or out of context, and then just leave it hanging there. If I do not protest immediately, she behaves as if I had accepted whatever she said as fact.

And if I protest or correct her, then she flames up with "You always have to have the last word, don't you?" Which of course I wouldn't - if a valid resolution had been reached.

It sounds like you are in an emotionally and psychologically abusive relationship, fohat, maybe it's time to pack up all the keyboards and get your own place together so you can live in peace and harmony once and for all.

[matt3o]

I had a looong day. I'm gonna deal with this tomorrow. I'll also talk to webwit and see how he feels about it.

generally speaking... if you ignore the troll, the problem solves by itself.

[seebart]

I had a looong day. I'm gonna deal with this tomorrow. I'll also talk to webwit and see how he feels about it.

generally speaking... if you ignore the troll, the problem solves by itself.

This one won't go away I'm sure. He'll be back soon and I'll ignore it I promise.

[fohat]

maybe it's time to pack up

My youngest goes off to college in a year and a half.

[webwit]

Not worried about the Chinese guys. No weapons sold, no illegal drugs sold, no calls for violence, no problems here. Ok, there was some light flooding, which was corrected. I consider flooding as spam. For example, you can say "deskthority sucks", no problem, but if you post it in a new topic every minute, it's spam. People also have a right to be able to ignore your opinion or speech.

However, I'm closely monitoring some of you guys. Since you are potential attackers of a prime DT directive, free speech.

[XMIT]

I'm all for free speech. I'm also all for natural consequences against shitty speech, such as ignoring people or not buying from them.

[webwit]

Sure.

And some people have failed miserably at that