Hello from a new guy!

thefarside · 18 Dec 2020, 16:03

Hello everyone. I’ve recently gotten into the mechanical keyboard scene thanks to a video from Chyros. I was looking for an Apple aluminum keyboard and noticed his review stating it was terrible and thought, what would be better? Needless to say I started to go down the vintage and mechanical rabbit hole.

My initial interest was in the IBM buckling spring keyboards and I thought it was cool they are still being made by Unicomp, so I purchased a New Model M. I love it and use it as one of my daily drivers.

I enjoy the posts and the Wiki has been very helpful. It’s really cool to read the various projects and see the enthusiasm!

ZedTheMan · 18 Dec 2020, 16:05

Welcome!

sharktastica · 18 Dec 2020, 16:35

Welcome to DT!

Redmaus · 18 Dec 2020, 18:53

Welcome to DT man, hope you get to try some cool stuff!

ddrfraser1 · 18 Dec 2020, 19:35

Welcome doomed mortal

Yasu0 · 18 Dec 2020, 20:29

Question I sometimes ask myself, how much would a used model M go for if unicomp never existed... then I am glad that it all happened the way it did.

Now I wait for the original post to get edited with a strange link...

ddrfraser1 · 18 Dec 2020, 21:33

Yasu0 wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 20:29 how much would a used model M go for if unicomp never existed...

Probably as much as an XT or AT?

thefarside · 18 Dec 2020, 23:37

Yasu0 wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 20:29 Question I sometimes ask myself, how much would a used model M go for if unicomp never existed... then I am glad that it all happened the way it did.

Now I wait for the original post to get edited with a strange link...

That’s a great point. I think it’s great that they are still keeping the buckling spring technology alive and my New Model M feels and sounds similar to a 1989 Model M I purchased on eBay for close to the same price. Another cool thing was the build date on the sticker was the same day I placed the order.

Yasu0 · 19 Dec 2020, 00:05

The vintage branch of the rabbit hole isn't a bad one to do. The modern branch is, I think, the one that dooms mere mortals. Take caution there, lest you be saddled with hundreds of expensive "artisan keycaps" of dubious worth. And other such pitfalls. Old stuff tends to hold its value at worst, and go up in value sometimes.

thefarside · 23 Dec 2020, 16:46

Yasu0 wrote: 19 Dec 2020, 00:05 The vintage branch of the rabbit hole isn't a bad one to do. The modern branch is, I think, the one that dooms mere mortals. Take caution there, lest you be saddled with hundreds of expensive "artisan keycaps" of dubious worth. And other such pitfalls. Old stuff tends to hold its value at worst, and go up in value sometimes.

Thanks for the advice. I think I noticed what you’ve described in the MechanicalKeyboards subreddit. There seemed to be an endless amount of Cherry-based boards. I tried a friend’s Cherry-based Corsair K70 and didn’t like the feel or sound, so I plan to stick with Alps and buckling spring types.

I started with two keyboards: a Unicomp New Model M and a Matias Tactile Pro. I kept the Unicomp and returned the Matias mostly because of the key caps. They felt a little too slippery and I didn’t like all of the different legends and Mac font. I also have a NOS Focus FK-2001 and an older one that I am trying to clean up and restore, so far with mixed results.

ddrfraser1 · 23 Dec 2020, 19:38

Cherry switches aren't great but there are some great clones out there.

Shown1 · 06 Apr 2021, 12:55

Hi I am also newbie here and I am glad to meet you all

Muirium · 06 Apr 2021, 13:01

Hiya! Countdown till we get you insatiably lusting after 30 year old keyboards in 3…2…1…

kmnov2017 · 06 Apr 2021, 14:22

ddrfraser1 wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 21:33
Yasu0 wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 20:29 how much would a used model M go for if unicomp never existed...

Probably as much as an XT or AT?

Considering how common model Ms are, they are unlikely to be at price levels of XTs.

Go-Kart · 06 Apr 2021, 22:05

Shown1 wrote: 06 Apr 2021, 12:55 Hi I am also newbie here and I am glad to meet you all

Welcome! I'm pretty new here myself. DT is great, not good on the wallet though

Rayndalf · 07 Apr 2021, 00:38

kmnov2017 wrote: 06 Apr 2021, 14:22
ddrfraser1 wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 21:33
Yasu0 wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 20:29 how much would a used model M go for if unicomp never existed...

Probably as much as an XT or AT?
Considering how common model Ms are, they are unlikely to be at price levels of XTs.

From IBM to Leximark to Unicomp. I'm glad the design has seen such a long life. Keyfeel aside Ms have more in common with rubber dome boards than Cherry style discrete switches (efficient used of membrane sheet, stems built into keys, etc).

The "usable layout" vs "better build quality, keyfeel and NKRO" debate is a tricky one

.
The associated computers were massively successful, but compared to AT (PS/2), the XT protocol had a short life, so many F XTs saw light use. With a readily available passive adapter an F AT could be used long after it's computer died, and it seems that many enjoyed long service lives.

fohat · 07 Apr 2021, 01:11

Rayndalf wrote: 07 Apr 2021, 00:38
The associated computers were massively successful,

the XT protocol had a short life

many F XTs saw light use.

Were you using computers in the early-mid-1980s?

Short life did not necessarily correlate to light use. The business world was ecstatic when the "personal computer" became widely available and started sitting on desktops worldwide.

However short the lifespan of the XT ecosystem was, you can be assured that the individual units were subjected to extreme stress testing during their heyday.

kbdfr · 07 Apr 2021, 08:10

fohat wrote: 07 Apr 2021, 01:11
Rayndalf wrote: 07 Apr 2021, 00:38
The associated computers were massively successful,

the XT protocol had a short life

many F XTs saw light use.

Were you using computers in the early-mid-1980s?

Short life did not necessarily correlate to light use. The business world was ecstatic when the "personal computer" became widely available and started sitting on desktops worldwide.

However short the lifespan of the XT ecosystem was, you can be assured that the individual units were subjected to extreme stress testing during their heyday.

Confirmed.

thefarside · 01 Oct 2021, 12:56

Thanks everyone! Being a member for the last few months has shown me how great this site is. I really enjoy the enthusiasm, information and humor. BTW regarding the post above ^^^, I’m suspicious of the “whatsgroup” link….. looks like it’s already been reported

Since I’ve joined I’ve had some takeaways:
1) All of the expensive vintage keyboards I’ve purchased needed repair and/or restoration
2) All of the cheap and free vintage keyboards I’ve gotten work perfectly (Murphy’s law for keyboards?)
3) Alps keyboards are risk vs. reward, but they are really great when you get one in good condition
4) Give up your dreams of that white whale and enjoy what you have

Muirium · 01 Oct 2021, 13:10

Aye. You're right on all counts.

I will add that cleaning up a board—washing the grime off all the caps, especially—is a pleasing ritual well worthwhile itself. Sure, a new in box board is nice to have, but most of my regulars came good and dirty, and only really became *mine* once I gave them the clean.

thefarside · 01 Oct 2021, 13:22

Muirium wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 13:10 Aye. You're right on all counts.

I will add that cleaning up a board—washing the grime off all the caps, especially—is a pleasing ritual well worthwhile itself. Sure, a new in box board is nice to have, but most of my regulars came good and dirty, and only really became *mine* once I gave them the clean.

I completely agree. My first vintage board was a 1995 Focus FK-2001 with alps clones. It was filthy and the switches were in terrible shape. Going through the entire restoration process was extremely satisfying and it’s now a board I will never part with - but those clones are definitely coming out!

Jacobalbertus1 · 01 Oct 2021, 14:41

thefarside wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 13:22
Muirium wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 13:10 Aye. You're right on all counts.

I will add that cleaning up a board—washing the grime off all the caps, especially—is a pleasing ritual well worthwhile itself. Sure, a new in box board is nice to have, but most of my regulars came good and dirty, and only really became *mine* once I gave them the clean.

I completely agree. My first vintage board was a 1995 Focus FK-2001 with alps clones. It was filthy and the switches were in terrible shape. Going through the entire restoration process was extremely satisfying and it’s now a board I will never part with - but those clones are definitely coming out!

My first was an f xt basically new in box i still have it

Muirium · 01 Oct 2021, 15:13

My first was an XT too. Even got XT converter tips straight from Soarer. I will admit to recently selling it though. Just wasn't seeing use, given the Kishsaver, and so a sleepy tertiary Model F to me became a one and only for someone else, starting out.

thefarside · 01 Oct 2021, 16:06

Muirium wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 15:13 My first was an XT too. Even got XT converter tips straight from Soarer. I will admit to recently selling it though. Just wasn't seeing use, given the Kishsaver, and so a sleepy tertiary Model F to me became a one and only for someone else, starting out.

I’ve hit critical mass on my collection and also need to let several go. I keep telling myself I’m not a hoarder but I struggle to let some go. For instance, I bought a NIB Focus FK-2001 that’s from 1999 (I think towards the end of the Focus keyboard production) and it’s the worst type - pad printed keys, heavy super tactile alps clones, Win 98 power/sleep buttons that are in the spot for Print Screen, Scroll Lock, etc. I keep telling myself to sell it and keep the box and cover, but for some reason it seems wrong to part with only the board and keep the rest….

Muirium · 01 Oct 2021, 16:15

It seems wrong because it is wrong.

Got to make a clean break with it. Box included: they belong together. Or clutch hold of it forever, my precioussssss!

Hoarding is just valuing things too highly. The goal's to *only* have the good stuff. The stuff actually worth getting sentimental about.

thefarside · 01 Oct 2021, 19:38

Muirium wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 16:15 It seems wrong because it is wrong.

Got to make a clean break with it. Box included: they belong together. Or clutch hold of it forever, my precioussssss!

Hoarding is just valuing things too highly. The goal's to *only* have the good stuff. The stuff actually worth getting sentimental about.

You’re right - it must go! Box and board! The cover will be hard to part with though… I have four FK-2001s and only two covers….

Muirium · 01 Oct 2021, 19:39

Only two? Hoarder!

thefarside · 01 Oct 2021, 19:43

I prefer the term collector…

Muirium · 01 Oct 2021, 19:48

A collector curates. A hoarder is much too busy for all that. (There’s still more of those things out there! Gimmeh!)

Self supposed sage that I am, I will admit I’ve still 3 SSKs though. One daily, one perennially parked fixer upper and one magic unicorn sleeping new in its box.

Spoiler:

Unfinished business, it’s true.

Lalaland124 · 01 Oct 2021, 20:05

Muirium wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 19:48 A collector curates. A hoarder is much too busy for all that. (There’s still more of those things out there! Gimmeh!)

Self supposed sage that I am, I will admit I’ve still 3 SSKs though. One daily, one perennially parked fixer upper and one magic unicorn sleeping new in its box.
Spoiler:
Unfinished business, it’s true.

I can understand that type of collecting (*cough hoarding). I tried to get rid off a lot of stuff, but my brain kept telling me that I always need at least two of the same boards in case I need one for spare parts, that way I unintentionally tricked myself into keeping everything