Scottish Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Poll ended at 18 Sep 2014, 16:46

Yes
22
73%
No
8
27%
 
Total votes: 30

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 May 2015, 19:27

Mal-2 wrote:
Muirium wrote: Come on history. Prove him wrong! The clock's a ticking. For now at least. Just the idea of an SNP victory and government was laughably absurd back in my teens. And a referendum! What next? The Irish allowing gay equality!
Maybe if UKIP succeeds and gets its Brexit, that will be sufficient motivation to push a closely split populace over the line. Then your teacher may be only half-right, and NI may be going with you.
I've had my eye on that promised EU exit referendum ever since Cameron promised it. The highly active Yes voters who painted Scotland SNP yellow the other week will definitely vote to stay in the EU, in large numbers. But, as always, England chooses the outcome. They make up 88% of Britain's population, and opinion there is much less energised. I imagine it'll all come down to turnout. UKIP wins every European Parliament election down there with ease, but those are low interest, right-wing pensioner dominated affairs. If only that crowd is bothered on the day, then Britain will be torn out of Europe. While Scotland votes the other way!

UKIP's in a mess right now, with the knives out for its leadership after that brutal election result of 1 single MP for them. Meanwhile Cameron (and maybe half the Tories), Labour, the Greens, and the Liberals (if they're still around) will all campaign to stay in. It really is a high risk game. I wonder if they'll put a minimum turnout clause in the referendum to give themselves a safety net? Not that even this would save them from a successful campaign by the highly anti-EU media.

The SNP consider the result to be a valid trigger to run the Scottish Independence referendum again. Though, as one of their former leaders said back on election night: the SNP's goal is not just to hold a referendum, but to win! They'll be keeping a close eye on the polls to see the kind of numbers they want: well over 50% for Yes, maybe more like 60%. Forced expulsion for Scotland from the EU is just the kind of event that could turn public opinion like that.

One problem remains: the SNP in the Scottish Parliament can't run a legally binding referendum by themselves. 2014's referendum was actually granted by an act of parliament in London, with Cameron's agreement. He's said he'll never let a second one happen. So technically what we might end up with is Scots voting in another referendum at some point that isn't legally binding. It would be up to London whether they accepted the result or not. Could get messy. But then leaving Europe is bloody messy business already!

I look forward to the checkpoints between Berwick and Carlisle on the Scotland-England border. No campaigners were always banging on about those, as an example of the OMG INSANITY! of separate nations. But would independent England accept anything less if Scotland remains in the EU, with all our filthy pan European migrants? They're welcome to pay for it.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

23 May 2015, 19:44

Cameron is in a tight spot with his EU decision. Staying in is shit, leaving is plain mad with outcome unknown.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 May 2015, 19:48

Hmm… if he gets the stay in result he wants, so the argument goes, it's decided "for a generation".

But that hasn't exactly worked out so well up here. Our referendum was mere months ago and everyone expects another!

Genies and open bottles.

mr_a500

31 May 2015, 14:52

I've always found this to be a fairly accurate depiction of politics:

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 15:01

Over here, he'd get two seconds of twirling on the evening news, then a very passive aggressive interviewer asking him why everyone thinks [insert alarming allegations about his private life] are true. They'd then show 10 seconds of him squirming, and cut away before the answer.

Gosh darned if I know why everyone HATES politicians here. Bunch of slush fund molesters.

mr_a500

31 May 2015, 15:11

Here in Canada, he'd have to say half the speech in English, half in French (to not upset Quebecers) and the twirling would be translated for the hearing impaired.

Also, as a boy, he would have dreamed of being a hockey puck.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 May 2015, 15:13

In German politics issues are generally "debated to death". In the end everyone is more confused than before. The news coverage is mostly tedious and repetitive.
And the politicians themselves are beyond boring. No one wants to see Merkel's private life. That would be considered somewhat of a torture.

mr_a500

31 May 2015, 15:23

Yeah, well Canadian politicians are so boring that nobody knows who they are. They don't bother giving them security protection because nobody cares enough to assassinate them.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 15:29

German politicians dull? No way. I'm pretty sure Merkel's seen her fair share of fun…

NSFW.
Spoiler:
Image

@A500: Isn't Quebec a hotspot for politically motivated shootings? I'm sure that was where some loony burst into parliament one day armed to the teeth, only to be talked out of it by a security man who had served in the same regiment.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 May 2015, 15:34

Oh my god Mu! Did you have to torture my eyes? I mean we got good looking women here. But please. That's beyond hard core spam.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 15:40

It's a real pic, too. I remember the furore when it hit the Internet a few years ago. Anyway, don't pick on her physique. She's a smart politician, and I bet more fun to get on with in private than she likes to let people think!

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 May 2015, 15:47

Possibly. Merkel is the surname of her fist husband. The man has kept a low profile. He might have some nice stories to tell... or fun pictures like that.

mr_a500

31 May 2015, 15:48

seebart wrote: Oh my god Mu! Did you have to torture my eyes? I mean we got good looking women here. But please. That's beyond hard core spam.
I see a future DT header...
Muirium wrote: @A500: Isn't Quebec a hotspot for politically motivated shootings? I'm sure that was where some loony burst into parliament one day armed to the teeth, only to be talked out of it by a security man who had served in the same regiment.
Parliament is in Ottawa, Ontario - not Quebec. Yes, there was a loony shooting, but he was not a real Canadian. He was Lebanese. We're passing out Citizenship over here like we're giving out candy.

Real Canadians just pop in to the PM's bedroom in the middle of the night, for a friendly chat, while holding a pocket knife:

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/06/world ... emier.html

User avatar
chzel

31 May 2015, 15:50

seebart wrote: Possibly. Merkel is the surname of her fist husband. The man has kept a low profile. He might have some nice stories to tell... or fun pictures like that.
I must ignore the urge to make a lewd joke...must resist..

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 15:54

Politicians are, generally speaking, bright people. And bright people are, generally speaking, kinky bastards. Just saying…


@A500: See that's the power of national stereotypes. Reality isn't strong enough to break them! Canada: full of lunatics, but no one believes it. You're like the Swiss: reputation for being dullards yet armed to the teeth.

I let my Scottish terminology slip on your political system. Our local assembly is called The Scottish Parliament, despite the fact that Tony Blair compared it to a "parish council". Surely the independent minded Quebecois demand better spurious names for their fake national institutions like us!

mr_a500

31 May 2015, 16:06

Muirium wrote: You're like the Swiss: reputation for being dullards yet armed to the teeth.
What's this? We have a reputation for being dullards? I didn't know that. Well that sucks. I thought we just had a reputation for being boring, bland, non-hostile, apologetic, friendly and somewhat vapid - but now I find out people from other countries have been talking behind our backs and consider us dullards. Well that hurts. I'm going to reveal this to every other Canadian and we're going to get back to you... rest of the world bastards!

davkol

31 May 2015, 16:51

Are you sorry though?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 May 2015, 16:52

davkol wrote: Are you sorry though?
Who? Me? :?

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Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 16:55

Ssssh! We're Canadian baiting…

Continues:
And what will you offer us as a token of your restored goodwill? We accept Hall effect numpads among other things.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 May 2015, 16:57

Muirium wrote: We accept Hall effect numpads among other things.
:o

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 16:59

See how upset you made him, A500! See what you did! And you call yourself a Canadian. Well, sir! I think we must diverge in opinion!

mr_a500

31 May 2015, 20:01

Here's a nice apology, but it's to Americans. (We never apologize to Scotland.)
(audio lag... when will people learn to do videos without audio lag?)

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 May 2015, 20:07

mr_a500 wrote: We never apologize to Scotland.
Probably a good idea. I've never seen a Scot accept an apology either!

User avatar
Muirium
µ

24 Mar 2016, 10:52

So, if not for the 11:9 result in the wrong direction two Septembers ago, this glum Thursday morning would have been Scotland's Independence Day.

It's not.

But it is a good moment to check up on all those wonderful promises made by the No side during the campaign. And that's what lies gathered in this compendium here: The Wee Black Book. (Beware, it's a PDF.)

Image

The tone of that catalogue of deceit and failure sure feels about right. As someone who voted for independence, none of it is a surprise. What we need here in Scotland, however, is the No voters to pick this up and have a think. The argument for their having been taken for a good long hard ride is made by their own media. The headlines are all real. Just placed next to one another in a way those unionist papers and channels would rather not!

User avatar
Halvar

24 Mar 2016, 12:39

Put it in a time capsule then, for the next referendum in a few hundred years! :twisted: ;)

(yes it's actually sad)

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fohat
Elder Messenger

24 Mar 2016, 14:12

There are a lot of border lines that should be re-drawn, all over the world, but I can see how "confederations" of a smaller number of larger, more autonomous bodies are far more problematic than "unions" of a larger number of smaller and weaker bodies.

Scotland is an interesting case because it could find a place for itself as a viable partner in the already-extant EU, whereas something like an independent Quebec would simply be the odd man out.

berserkfan

28 Mar 2016, 21:14

Am surprised to see this thread up again. I never voted the last time but I was hoping most people would vote yes. The overwhelming vote for independence on this thread is belied by the real life vote to stay in the UK.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

05 May 2016, 14:05

We're at it again. Every election in Scotland is all about indy now! Here's how I went:

Image

Yes, every single party on the first ballot starts with "Scottish". But 3 of the 4 are based in London. So long as they wear tartan undies up in their north branch office, right? Only UKIP on the second ballot has the balls to say it like it is in that respect, no "UKIP Scotland" here. Kudos for that at least.

For the nerdy: why I split my ballot.

Results tonight. Expect a lot of yellow. Again

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

05 May 2016, 14:08

Nice beard. :mrgreen:

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Muirium
µ

05 May 2016, 14:10

That's my sweaty hillwalking look. Tres chic.

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