The *Ping* Award

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webwit
Wild Duck

The *Ping* Award

Unread post by webwit » 06 Dec 2017, 20:44

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Sponsored by:
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Voters have a chance at winning a Leopold FC980C Topre and 60% keyboard sleeve from mykeyboard.eu!
Live from the Deskthority Awards Ceremony, a song about *Ping*.

Winner:
And now for the best category...

What was the worst keyboard or keyboard/input device related experience in 2017?

The official nominees for The *Ping* Award were:

  • MrDuul driving up beam spring prices for a few months
  • Massdrop for continuing to fail on numerous occasions
  • Input Club for the Massdrop incident
  • Zeal PC, TheVan Keyboards, Keyclack and 1Up Keyboards for milking the community
  • Signature Plastics for telling 7bit to fuck off

The Smiley, as voted for by the keyboard community, goes to...
Spoiler:
Massdrop for continuing to fail on numerous occasions
Massdrop was nominated for various reasons this year: they were nominated for the Input Club incident, for missing parts, for shipping switches instead of entire board kits, for shipping items in packaging so terrible that items fell out or were damaged, for not being able to tell left from right and shipping two left-handed ergodox boards, for being "assdrop gold diggers", for still not having a proxy to the EU, and for adding to the list every week.

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Massdrop continued to impress the *Ping* organisers.
Runners-up:
Spoiler:
2nd place: Signature Plastics for telling 7bit to fuck off
Signature Plastics was nominated "for telling 7bit and his Round X GBs to fuck off because they would rather deal with assdrop than the guy who helped them develop a product people would actually like to purchase. (SA was shit before 7bit started working with them)."
Signature Plastic's reaction to 7bit's last intricate order.

3rd place: Zeal PC, TheVan Keyboards, Keyclack and 1Up Keyboards for milking the community
Zeal PC, TheVan Keyboards, Keyclack and 1Up Keyboards were nominated "for prominent community members selling cheap stuff for serious dough to lesser versed members who don't know you can get the same thing for a lot less money. Sometimes the exact same thing, just with a HEAVY markup. They must have quite some development costs for not profiting from those margins. Whether it is poor business practices or just plain lying, do not expect the entire keyboard community to be stupid."
An interpretation of how greed and the pursuit of worldly things can take control and manipulate people's actions, danced & choreographed by the Deskthority Dance Crew.
"Honorable" mentions:
Spoiler:
Input Club for the Massdrop incident
Input Club and Massdrop disagreed on a number of points regarding Halo switches, resulting in an incredibly complex situation involving major parties in the keyboard community, and one of the first of this scale that the community has had to deal with. Everybody got their say, not held back by puny limitations such as not having a law degree. But now you can vote: who was really to blame?

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IC and Massdrop: the Halo Switch Disagreement - the truth is out there, but you'll have to use your magnifying glass.

MrDuul driving up beam spring prices for a few months
MrDuul (and all associated accounts) drove up the already expensive beam spring prices for a few months. He was on a raid to find the best and the most rare keyboards, and had a heavy wallet to lighten. This may have caused a disruption in the market forces. Recently he has been pursuing a different career on Deskthority.
A more recent instance of MrDuul interacting on the Deskthority forum.

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ramnes
ПБТ НАВСЕГДА

Unread post by ramnes » 06 Dec 2017, 22:58

Come on guys, you could have voted for our only "true community member" represented here! :lol:

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Khers

Unread post by Khers » 07 Dec 2017, 07:52

My nominations in this category seem to have gone down well :D

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7bit

Unread post by 7bit » 07 Dec 2017, 10:15

Yes!
:evilgeek:

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cookie

Unread post by cookie » 07 Dec 2017, 10:20

Ohh boy, I am so proud of you guys not giving some moron too much attention but focusing on some *ping* worthy topics!
Assdrop, you Sir clearly deserved the first place!

Findecanor

Unread post by Findecanor » 07 Dec 2017, 13:58

Woohoo! Congratulations! How are you going to celebrate, now?

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Halvar

Unread post by Halvar » 07 Dec 2017, 17:15

I would have preferred SP this year, but the balldrop win is something I can get behind.

gateron

Unread post by gateron » 07 Dec 2017, 17:58

So another thread complaining about the company which provides the community with fantastic GMK/SA sets, offering - and always producing - ergo,norde,dvorak kits, which no other vendor has ever done.

The whole "not having a proxy in EU" is just a stupid reason to vote its a bad company and calling them "assdrop" is just childish. I thought DT was supposed to be the grown-up forum.
Last edited by gateron on 07 Dec 2017, 18:29, edited 3 times in total.

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gkubed

Unread post by gkubed » 07 Dec 2017, 18:01

I'm still awaiting my bad Massdrop experience...may it never come!

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 07 Dec 2017, 19:22

gateron wrote: So another thread complaining about the company which provides the community with fantastic GMK/SA sets, offering - and always producing - ergo,norde,dvorak kits, which no other vendor has ever done.

The whole "not having a proxy in EU" is just a stupid reason to vote its a bad company and calling them "assdrop" is just childish. I thought DT was supposed to be the grown-up forum.
Agreed. And there is an Asian proxy that someone else voluntarily took on. Someone in the EU could do it with the outcry. But no one has.

CoffeeHamster

Unread post by CoffeeHamster » 08 Dec 2017, 08:45

They can wipe their tears with their right hand ergodox pcbs

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AMongoose

Unread post by AMongoose » 08 Dec 2017, 11:15

chuckdee wrote:
gateron wrote: So another thread complaining about the company which provides the community with fantastic GMK/SA sets, offering - and always producing - ergo,norde,dvorak kits, which no other vendor has ever done.

The whole "not having a proxy in EU" is just a stupid reason to vote its a bad company and calling them "assdrop" is just childish. I thought DT was supposed to be the grown-up forum.
Agreed. And there is an Asian proxy that someone else voluntarily took on. Someone in the EU could do it with the outcry. But no one has.
I don't know what's the motivation of that asian proxy buy why on earth would anyone proxy a company voluntarily?

One would need to hire a lawyer, an accountant, workers to sort things out, to form a company, to rent space, pay import taxes, pay taxes over the money received.
Why would anyone do this in order to give massdrop more clients? They can do it themselves if they want to.

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hansichen

Re: The *Ping* Award

Unread post by hansichen » 08 Dec 2017, 12:44

There is hardly any benefit from an EU proxy, no idea why people still think that they suck because they don't go the idiotic proxy way... If people would start to think they would see that a proxy is complete bullshit.

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 14:26

AMongoose wrote:
chuckdee wrote:
gateron wrote: So another thread complaining about the company which provides the community with fantastic GMK/SA sets, offering - and always producing - ergo,norde,dvorak kits, which no other vendor has ever done.

The whole "not having a proxy in EU" is just a stupid reason to vote its a bad company and calling them "assdrop" is just childish. I thought DT was supposed to be the grown-up forum.
Agreed. And there is an Asian proxy that someone else voluntarily took on. Someone in the EU could do it with the outcry. But no one has.
I don't know what's the motivation of that asian proxy buy why on earth would anyone proxy a company voluntarily?

One would need to hire a lawyer, an accountant, workers to sort things out, to form a company, to rent space, pay import taxes, pay taxes over the money received.
Why would anyone do this in order to give massdrop more clients? They can do it themselves if they want to.
Because a lot more goes into these plastic keys, so it's cheaper to proxy them and make the cut on the difference between the price of the keys and the price that people pay. There's also the issue of exclusivity. And relationships with the manufacturers. The proxies make money for very little effort, and they are not giving massdrop more clients. More sales, but not more clients.

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AMongoose

Unread post by AMongoose » 08 Dec 2017, 15:54

chuckdee wrote: Because a lot more goes into these plastic keys, so it's cheaper to proxy them and make the cut on the difference between the price of the keys and the price that people pay. There's also the issue of exclusivity. And relationships with the manufacturers. The proxies make money for very little effort, and they are not giving massdrop more clients. More sales, but not more clients.
If the cost on the proxy would cover everything plus get some money for the proxy it would be more expensive than just ordering directly from massdrop and paying the import taxe directly. And then what would be the point?

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 15:59

AMongoose wrote:
chuckdee wrote: Because a lot more goes into these plastic keys, so it's cheaper to proxy them and make the cut on the difference between the price of the keys and the price that people pay. There's also the issue of exclusivity. And relationships with the manufacturers. The proxies make money for very little effort, and they are not giving massdrop more clients. More sales, but not more clients.
If the cost on the proxy would cover everything plus get some money for the proxy it would be more expensive than just ordering directly from massdrop and paying the import taxe directly. And then what would be the point?
My understanding is that massdrop not being an exporter gets some things wrong at times. There's also the fact that Massdrop doesn't ship to all countries. They ship to uruguay and not paraguay for instance. I don't know all that goes on behind the scenes, but I do know that there's a lot involved in getting keycaps made that people don't get from experience. So if you want nautilus for example, it's better to get it now, because more than likely, you're going to pay a lot more on the aftermarket.

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AMongoose

Unread post by AMongoose » 08 Dec 2017, 16:12

chuckdee wrote: My understanding is that massdrop not being an exporter gets some things wrong at times
Yes and they should get those things right, hence in part the ping award.
Last dorp I was in (Mito XDA Canvas) someone's caps where destroyed because massdrop leaved himself as the contact for import duty payment and didn't answered emails on those. Someone becoming a volunteer proxy for the good of the community isn't going to change that, them getting better at shipping will.

And it's not really something that can be overlooked since shipping is ALL they do.
chuckdee wrote: Massdrop doesn't ship to all countries. They ship to uruguay and not paraguay for instance.
Is there a EU country they do not ship to?

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hansichen

Re: The *Ping* Award

Unread post by hansichen » 08 Dec 2017, 16:45

chuckdee wrote:There's also the fact that Massdrop doesn't ship to all countries. They ship to uruguay and not paraguay for instance. I don't know all that goes on behind the scenes, but I do know that there's a lot involved in getting keycaps made that people don't get from experience. So if you want nautilus for example, it's better to get it now, because more than likely, you're going to pay a lot more on the aftermarket.
Paraguay, that's a country where probably less than 10 keyboard nerds live. Don't get me wrong, it sucks to be in such a country but for that you can use professional forwarding services in the US. But apart from China massdrop ships to every major country in the world. That's definetly not a reason why people think that massdrop sucks
AMongoose wrote:Yes and they should get those things right, hence in part the ping award.
Last dorp I was in (Mito XDA Canvas) someone's caps where destroyed because massdrop leaved himself as the contact for import duty payment and didn't answered emails on those. Someone becoming a volunteer proxy for the good of the community isn't going to change that, them getting better at shipping will.

And it's not really something that can be overlooked since shipping is ALL they do.
Mistakes happen, at least you get a replacement or refund, not like other vendors where you can wait a year for no answer

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 19:00

AMongoose wrote: Yes and they should get those things right, hence in part the ping award.
Last dorp I was in (Mito XDA Canvas) someone's caps where destroyed because massdrop leaved himself as the contact for import duty payment and didn't answered emails on those. Someone becoming a volunteer proxy for the good of the community isn't going to change that, them getting better at shipping will.

And it's not really something that can be overlooked since shipping is ALL they do.
Shipping is not all they do. I think that's one of the reasons that people have such a negative perception- they have an incorrect view of what massdrop is and what massdrop does.
hansichen wrote: Paraguay, that's a country where probably less than 10 keyboard nerds live. Don't get me wrong, it sucks to be in such a country but for that you can use professional forwarding services in the US. But apart from China massdrop ships to every major country in the world. That's definetly not a reason why people think that massdrop sucks
I guess I know all 10 of them +1. :? People have said that's the reason that Massdrop sucks... even on here in the nominations for the ping award.

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 19:02

chuckdee wrote:
AMongoose wrote: Yes and they should get those things right, hence in part the ping award.
Last dorp I was in (Mito XDA Canvas) someone's caps where destroyed because massdrop leaved himself as the contact for import duty payment and didn't answered emails on those. Someone becoming a volunteer proxy for the good of the community isn't going to change that, them getting better at shipping will.

And it's not really something that can be overlooked since shipping is ALL they do.
Shipping is not all they do. I think that's one of the reasons that people have such a negative perception- they have an incorrect view of what massdrop is and what massdrop does.
hansichen wrote: Paraguay, that's a country where probably less than 10 keyboard nerds live. Don't get me wrong, it sucks to be in such a country but for that you can use professional forwarding services in the US. But apart from China massdrop ships to every major country in the world. That's definetly not a reason why people think that massdrop sucks
I guess I know all 10 of them +1. :? People have said that's the reason that Massdrop sucks... even on here in the nominations for the ping award.
jkaos92 wrote: Massdrop from being assdrop Gold diggers, almost 2018 and they still didn't found a proxy to EU. The only good things about them is being a big company that could reach big MOQs, apart from that the last year showed that different proxies can work at the same way (e.g. GMK 9009 and other things multi-proxied), they are still not like massdrop but at least they care a bit about the community.
Also the last year fuckups were incredible.
Of course, he's anti-Massdrop for any reason that he can be. You see that a lot on reddit. :roll:

davkol

Unread post by davkol » 08 Dec 2017, 19:45

chuckdee wrote: Shipping is not all they do. I think that's one of the reasons that people have such a negative perception- they have an incorrect view of what massdrop is and what massdrop does.
Considering their attention to detail and quality overall, I'm not sure what they do…

Maybe this?

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 20:02

davkol wrote:
chuckdee wrote: Shipping is not all they do. I think that's one of the reasons that people have such a negative perception- they have an incorrect view of what massdrop is and what massdrop does.
Considering their attention to detail and quality overall, I'm not sure what they do…

Maybe this?

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Just the little I know:
Dealing with different manufacturers for the drops and negotiating the price breaks that they can get (people don't get that the manufacturers to a large extent have the final say in this)
Dealing with logistics from companies that don't have or understand a complicated logistics chain and special considerations for a lot of different communities.
Trying to get a CS team that knows the intricacies of a lot of different niche hobbies, and how to handle them appropriately (i.e. the average CS person doesn't even know what keycaps are, and why the little pieces of plastic are worth so much, and why one matters over another)
Negotiating with factories to get new products in the pipeline and managing that whole pipeline from start to finish. Then dealing with those same third parties in an amicable way once things go wrong without breaking the relationship.
And a lot more, but I think that's enough to show the point (and as much as I'm willing to write)

You might say they need more work in those areas, or even suck. But it's definitely not that they do nothing.

davkol

Unread post by davkol » 08 Dec 2017, 20:25

Oh, yeah, totally, there's more that they do. For example, that time when they monitored ICs at Geekhack, found Shadovved's planned very first Gateron group buy, and then raced to compete with the community effort.

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chuckdee

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 20:36

davkol wrote: Oh, yeah, totally, there's more that they do. For example, that time when they monitored ICs at Geekhack, found Shadovved's planned very first Gateron group buy, and then raced to compete with the community effort.
People have their own opinions on MD. I'm just correcting the statement about they do nothing, not trying to argue views or the past. I don't know anything about what you're bringing up, nor the context of those incidents, nor am I trying to get involved in a discussion about that.

davkol

Unread post by davkol » 08 Dec 2017, 21:18

Yes, I have noticed how you rush to defend Massderp, whenever there's even the slightest sign of dissent.

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chuckdee

Re: The *Ping* Award

Unread post by chuckdee » 08 Dec 2017, 21:41

davkol wrote:Yes, I have noticed how you rush to defend Massderp, whenever there's even the slightest sign of dissent.
Does that even look like a defense? I was just correcting your biased assertions. They have good and bad properties and areas that they need to improve in, but I recognize their contributions to the hobby.

davkol

Unread post by davkol » 08 Dec 2017, 21:48

The good old "very fine people on _both_ sides".

andrewjoy

Unread post by andrewjoy » 08 Dec 2017, 22:48

davkol wrote: The good old "very fine people on _both_ sides".
Ahhhh

You mean when nazis and commies had a fight and a commie got run over and the media got its knickers in a twist.

davkol

Unread post by davkol » 08 Dec 2017, 23:08

Never heard of that.

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chuckdee

Re: The *Ping* Award

Unread post by chuckdee » 09 Dec 2017, 00:01

davkol wrote:Never heard of that.
How about this one... You can't stand to be corrected so keep with your attacking the messenger and straw man arguments, rather than just admitting you might have misstated your opinion but you still don't like Massdrop.

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