日本語

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

01 Oct 2012, 13:23

ようこそ日本語キーボード愛好家  :)
Sorry for machine translation :oops:
Spoiler:
It's my opinion that we're missing out on a lot of cool stuff that the Japanese keyboard enthusiasts have.
Some of them have already been among us in the past and have made excellent contributions to the community (hasu and sandy55 come to mind).

The unfortunate fact is that the Japanese keyboard enthusiasts don't really have a forum outside of 2ch, Twitter, and perhaps some personal websites like Qwerter's Clinic and sandy's page (both of which seem semi-active).

I would love to welcome the Japanese keyboard enthusiasts to this forum - don't be shy :)
If it becomes popular, then I am sure the Administrators will create a dedicated Japanese forum.

User avatar
aremizu

01 Oct 2012, 13:37

書き込みのテストです。

The test of writing :D

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

01 Oct 2012, 13:40

Mr. Alps has arrived :)

User avatar
fruktstund

02 Oct 2012, 14:37

日本人のキーボードのファンもここに来たら、日本語をべんきょうする人としてこのフォーラムわ先よりもっと面白いになると思っています。 :)
(As a person who studies Japanese, I believe this forum might become more interesting than before, if the Japanese keyboard fans were to come here too.)
Too bad my Japanese is a bit bad. :D

Deskthorityへようこそ!(Welcome to Deskthority!)

User avatar
ysaktaro

02 Oct 2012, 14:57

Hi, this is ysaktaro.
I'm just a newbie for keyboard fanatic, but I would like to talk about keyboard deeply.
I am interested in not only 104US (that's my main keyboard) but also JIS, thumb shift, Dvorak or another language layouts.

Nice to meet you, everyone! :twisted:

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

02 Oct 2012, 15:33

Welcome ysaktaro! Your english is great.
I wonder how popular the thumb shift keyboards are in Japan? It seems that Fujitsu are the most popular maker of such boards?

Although it looks like there are kits for turning standard JIS keyboards into thumb shift? http://www.vshopu.com/oya_topre/index.html

User avatar
ysaktaro

03 Oct 2012, 10:31

002 wrote:Welcome ysaktaro! Your english is great.
I wonder how popular the thumb shift keyboards are in Japan? It seems that Fujitsu are the most popular maker of such boards?

Although it looks like there are kits for turning standard JIS keyboards into thumb shift? http://www.vshopu.com/oya_topre/index.html
People looks thumb shift is quaint one, maybe. Fujitsu is only a thumb shift maker now, which is originated for their word processors (electric typewriter) called "OASYS". It was favored by writers, but not by many others in a reason of (visually) complication.
Nowadays I guess that about over 80% Japanese PC user type JIS layout in Roman. Another 20% is consisted of 2-top of JIS in Kana or US in Roman, and little share of thumb shift, TRON, or personally developed layout.

Thumb shift keyboards are few on the market, so thumb shifter has only 2 choice: mobile-thin one or expensive hugeness
(People expect to cost keyboard for 20USD or cheaper generally, so paying 200USD for typing is too expensive in either way.)
However typing enthusiasts want to get an environment, some make modded keys for thumb shifting. 6th picture, SS, figures software customization for thumb shifting.(Of course, remap customize needs software separately.)

[ alt ][ space ][ thumb L ][ thumb R ][ Kana ][ alt ]
*Thumb L is also work as "no transfer (to Kanjis)", thumb R as "transfer".

JIS(OADG)109 keyboard states a little gap with center and line between space (thumb L) and transfer (thumb R). To match lines, and to make higher keytop, they use this one.

こんなとこでしょうか、あれみずさん補足お願い(ぇ

User avatar
rzwv

03 Oct 2012, 16:35

市販はされていませんが、親指シフト化を行う専用キートップはPFUより制作されています。

Although marketing is not carried out, the exclusive key-top for using it as a keyboard layout assigning Shift keys to thumbs is made from PFU.

http://shiology.com/shiology/2012/06/27 ... 0-b56.html

User avatar
aremizu

03 Oct 2012, 16:37

@ysaktaro
親指シフト化キットであれば、PFUに連絡すれば手に入るかもしれません。

User avatar
rzwv

14 Oct 2012, 20:16

IBM_5140_01.jpg
IBM 5140 Convertible
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IBM_5140_09.jpg
ALPS low profile green Slider linear
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IBM_5140_10.jpg
brown Slider tactile
IBM_5140_10.jpg (549.73 KiB) Viewed 6418 times
IBM_5140_16.jpg
IBM_5140_16.jpg (470.35 KiB) Viewed 6418 times
IBM_5140_17.jpg
IBM_5140_17.jpg (436.33 KiB) Viewed 6418 times
IBM_5140_18.jpg
IBM_5140_18.jpg (744.73 KiB) Viewed 6418 times
IBM_5140_19.jpg
<- IBM WorkStation_IBM 5140->
IBM_5140_19.jpg (369.64 KiB) Viewed 6418 times
私は、このキーボードがとても重たく感じられます。002さんによると、押下重が65g以上もあり、非常に重たいです。しかしながら、非常に良い作りになっており、気に入っています。

tsuduki... http://kbd.rzw.jp/alps/ibm_5140/

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

15 Oct 2012, 00:00

Great specimen, wow!

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

15 Oct 2012, 01:08

@rzwv: Wikiにあなたの写真を使ってもよろしいですか?

User avatar
rzwv

15 Oct 2012, 11:06

スライダーをゴム入りの物に入れ替えてみました。
The slider was changed to the thing containing rubber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyOCD6vykD0

@webwit: これらはスマートフォンで撮影しています。画質が悪くなってしまい、すみません。
These are photoed with the smart phone.
I am sorry that image quality worsens.

@002: このサイトにアップロードした画像は自由に転載して良いです。ただ、私のブログの画像を転載する場合、リンク元を書いて頂けると嬉しく思います。
You may reproduce freely the picture uploaded to this site.
However, when reproducing the picture of my blog, I think that I am glad with writing and getting a linking agency.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

15 Oct 2012, 13:18

素晴らしいビデオ。私はあなたのマウスパッドが好きです。 :)

User avatar
ysaktaro

15 Oct 2012, 14:28

茶軸かぁ…てかそんな重いんですね茶軸は

自分はこの前Dboard=ALPS灰軸をオクで落札しました。613もあるし練習したいけどなんか…

---
Oh brown slider... or it is so heavy to push, is not it?

I bid Dboard in recent,( which is thumb shift keyboard with Alps grey slider by Reudo).
I also have FMV-KB613 thumb shift keyboard, so I would practice typing with thumb shift but...

User avatar
aremizu

15 Oct 2012, 19:30

@rzwv氏に輸入を代行して頂き、私もALPS茶軸(IBM PC Convertible 5140)を手に入れることができました。
私が気づいた点について説明します。

ALPS茶軸は通常のALPSタクタイル、クリックスイッチと違い、上ケースに接点側とリーフバネ側で区別が存在しません。

ALPS Black S/W Upper Case (top:Contact points[接点] bottom:Leaf spring[タクタイルバネ])
Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/alpsblack_f.jpg

ALPS Brown S/W Upper Case
Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/alpsbrown_f.jpg

また、私が入手したIBM PC Convertible 5140 Keyboard ASSYは2つとも生産国が違うようです。
一つは日本、恐らくもう一つは別の国で生産されたのでしょう。(ALPS USA[America]かFukka[Taiwan]かGold Star ALPS[Korea]のうちのどれか?)

まず、基板に違いがあります。これは他のALPS製キーボードでも同じで、日本製の場合のみパターン側に"Made in Japan"の表記があります。(その他の製造国では実装側に表記)

Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/5140_pcb_f.jpg

しかし、何故か日本製の方が後に生産されたように見えます。(Japan : "D" Other : "C")

Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/5140_pcb2.jpg

キースイッチに違いは無いように思いますが、その他の部分は日本製の方が品質が良いように思います。

*基板

Japan :
Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/5140_japan_f.jpg

Other :
Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/5140_other_f.jpg

*プラスチック

Left : Other
Right : Japan

Image
fullsize : http://aretik.x0.com/pictures/5140/5140_j_o_f.jpg

今回撮影した動画:

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

16 Oct 2012, 09:09

A thorough review! :)
今、私たちは、HaaTaが変換器を書くのを待ちます。

User avatar
hasu

16 Oct 2012, 09:29

Convertible has nice palm key! :O

User avatar
HaaTa
Master Kiibohd Hunter

18 Oct 2012, 10:08

I'll take some pictures of my IBM Convertable Keyboard (Made in Japan) soon.
I'm half-way to decoding the matrix, and after that it should only be a few days work to finish up a USB converter (though I'm always busy).

Too much alcohol right now, so I won't attempt Japanese (ごめん).
I am looking for a Fujitsu Leaf Spring (First Generation), http://deskthority.net/wiki/Fujitsu_Leaf_Spring.
If anyone finds one, I would definitely be very interested :mrgreen: (Or any switch that I don't have yet)

http://kiibohd.com/crawler_query.cgi

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

21 Oct 2012, 00:09

Hopefully this isn't completely the wrong place to ask — basically, Sandy had a lot of Alps info on his website, and it's not machine translatable (I get a load of complete nonsense). It looks like he's since erased the switch pages, but here's an archive one of them: http://web.archive.org/web/200904290739 ... s_sw2.html

The information on those pages might clear up some of the confusion surrounding the "clone" switches, and all the translated information could go onto the DT wiki.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

21 Oct 2012, 01:04

It translates OK for me using the translator built into Chrome?
By 'OK', I mean hilarious English, but it still translates.

http://pastebin.com/7Lv7i1vU

Sandy isn't active in the keyboard community any more unfortunately :(

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

21 Oct 2012, 01:07

No, I was hoping that one of the Japanese speakers here could translate it into real English, not the sort of gibberish that Chrome vomits out.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

21 Oct 2012, 01:25

Thought so, but that's a pretty big ask I think. Even if you have a Japanese guy who can speak good English, translating from JP to EN is a whole different matter.

Perhaps if we just pointed out the sections that would be helpful to have translated instead of the whole page?

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

21 Oct 2012, 01:30

If we're just going to waste time arguing about this …

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

21 Oct 2012, 01:41

I don't see how this is an argument? I'm just pointing out that translating a page manually is no mean feat. You're doing more for the wiki than anyone else is at the moment so I don't want to stand on your toes or anything.

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

21 Oct 2012, 01:43

Maybe we don't need a complete translation, but just the extra knowledge filtered from there into the wiki.

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Daniel Beardsmore

21 Oct 2012, 01:48

Look, the page doesn't even translate. Let those who can read the page decide whether it's feasible or not — they're the only people who can possibly have any real idea of what it says.

User avatar
rzwv

21 Oct 2012, 23:13

AQ659ZRT-101A_01.jpg
NMB AQ659ZRT-101A Tactile
AQ659ZRT-101A_01.jpg (354.26 KiB) Viewed 6089 times
AQ659ZRT-101A_02.jpg
all Tactile
AQ659ZRT-101A_02.jpg (323.49 KiB) Viewed 6089 times
AQ659ZRT-101A_05.jpg
Peach Slider,Pink Slider
The difference in load was not found.
AQ659ZRT-101A_05.jpg (440.86 KiB) Viewed 6089 times
AQ659ZRT-101A_06.jpg
AQ659ZRT-101A_06.jpg (949.86 KiB) Viewed 6089 times
AQ659ZRT-101A_12.jpg
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合掌型の接点が固く、それによりタクタイル感を再現しています。
Cherry MX白軸よりも重たい軸です。

The point of contact of form which joined the palms together is hard, and, thereby, is reproducing a feeling of tactile.
It is an axis heavier than a Cherry MX white axis.

Details
http://kbd.rzw.jp/nmb/aq659zrt-101a/
http://kbd.rzw.jp/nmb/aq659zrt-101a_2/

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

21 Oct 2012, 23:22

Image
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

21 Oct 2012, 23:31

OK forget translating Sandy's page. 002 has found a much worse page in what appears to be Chinese with far more simplified switch types than anyone imagined existed. Type II alone is now nine different types, who knows how many were made by Xiang Min ("XM"). Webwit was right all along.

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