They even disliked MY switches in 1993

[Broadmonkey]

At 8:06 they start talking about keyboards

The first keyboard is a really nice looking NCR G81-3077 (the one they don't like) But I don't really know what the other keyboard is. Anybody recognize it?

[rodtang]

The other one is a Focus FK-2002.

[Peter]

" Try typing !! "

On this :

IBM_Selectric.jpg (22.36 KiB) Viewed 5381 times

There used to be a profession called 'typist', there where huge 'office'-rooms
filled with them, sometimes hundreds, hacking away on their Selectrics ..
Imagine the noise

Some professionals disliked the IBM-wheelwriter, because it was to silent !,
that's why it uses a buckling spring keyboard-assembly, to make it more 'noisy' or 'tactile' if you like .

I kinda like the old black MY-switches, if they are plate-mounted, and you even find them, or a 'bamboo-clone'
on certain electric 'silent' typewriters of that period .

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Oo a black FK-2002? Nice. I'm still waiting for my beige one ;-)

[Ascaii]

I am deeply ashamed of myself :/

[Broadmonkey]

You like MY switches?

[Peter]

You like MY switches?

Compared with ... ??
They sure Ass Hell beat any 'rubber-dome' I ever tried !

[Broadmonkey]

Not compared to anything, just in general.

The G81 board I have is terrible, I honestly would rather type on my brothers rubber dome! It might have been because it was worn (the G81) but the simple fact that the key caps was skating around the switch was enough for me to hate it!

[Peter]

Just so we are in agreement of the switch we talk about :

scan13_1.jpg (334.24 KiB) Viewed 5239 times

scan129_1.jpg (283.54 KiB) Viewed 5239 times

It don't need no stinkin' pain-in-the-butt bolt-mod either,
those are metal-rivets, on a nice thick metal-plate !

scan14 _1.jpg (326.19 KiB) Viewed 5239 times

So.. Yeah, I do like them a bit,
not as good as MX, but definitely a lot better than most other ..
Especially if you grease them a bit !

[Broadmonkey]

That will be the black version of the MY switch you have there, I have yet to try one of those. My G81 has the clear/white ones.

How many of those danish DS sets have you got?

[guilleguillaume]

The ones Peter posted are fantastic. They are used in some Triumph Adler typewriters and feel really good, almost like MX Blacks.

[Ascaii]

No, because I still havent sent daniel his FK-2002. I dislike MY. though the vintage triumph adler black MY are a HUGE improvement over the wet newspaper feel sold as g81 nowadays.

[webwit]

When I started collecting and I got MY keyboards in hauls of keyboards, I got rid of them with the trash because they felt like shit. Only later I learned that Cherry fanboys payed stupid amounts of cash for the ugly grey plastic keys.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

They sure Ass Hell beat any 'rubber-dome' I ever tried !

Wait, a linear switch beats rubber domes? That depends on whether you like linear or not. From the single, loose MY switch that I've got, I can't tell what's meant to be wrong with it, other than that it's linear, and I never cared for linear. (Though light linear is probably OK, considering that MX red and brown are so similar. I can feel the tactility in browns, so I wouldn't risk a load of wonga on an MX reds board.)

[eth0s]

They didn't like Cherry MX blue switches back in 1994 either.

See this review of the Dolch Pac 586 from Info World Magazine dated May 9, 1994:

http://books.google.com/books?id=gzgEAA ... er&f=false

InfoWorld, May 9, 1994, "Dolch A-Pac 586-60C", at page 86:

"Despite the keyboard's size, we did not find the feel to be very enjoyable or effective to use. If anything, the clackiness of the keys provided too much audio feedback, and the tactile feedback was so uncertain, we often couldn't tell whether keystrokes had registered. Some of the function keys also had a tendency to get stuck halfway down, which on several occasions resulted in keyboard errors when we booted up the system.

We were surprised to find that the keyboard lacks home-position indicators (usually provided in the form of bumps on the F and J keys). We also found that users had to adapt to the unusual arrangement of the cursor keys and number pad."

I have one of these Dolch A-Pac 586-60C keyboards:



It has MX blue switches. The clackiness of the keys is not annoying, the tactile feedback is like any other MX blue switch, and I can always tell when the key has been actuated. And the F and J keys are scooped instead of nubbed. LOL, I guess scoops provoked strong emotional reactions even back in '94. And it appears that the G80-1800 compact layout was confusing and shocking when it came out. AFAIK, the G80-1800 layout is beloved by Cherry fans today. However, there is something very wonky about getting all the function keys and numpad keys to work on boot up. But I'm pretty sure it's software related though. If not, I guess they had a real complaint on this point. I just assumed mine was wonky due to the age of the software and hardware.

[Findecanor]

Heh.. Actually I didn't actually notice that my Dolch keyboard had scooped F and J keys until I read about it on Geekhack ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ... I thought that the Dolch PAC-60 line also came with custom hardware and software for network analysis, and that that was the point of having a Dolch PAC.

[Broadmonkey]

They sure Ass Hell beat any 'rubber-dome' I ever tried !

Wait, a linear switch beats rubber domes? That depends on whether you like linear or not. From the single, loose MY switch that I've got, I can't tell what's meant to be wrong with it, other than that it's linear, and I never cared for linear.

I like linear switches, but those MY switches have a weird force curve, it feels much more exponential than linear and ends out at being very stiff. It makes it feel like a sponge. The biggest problem I have with it, is that it's loose (ie. moves from side to side)

[Peter]

That will be the black version of the MY switch you have there, I have yet to try one of those. My G81 has the clear/white ones.

How many of those danish DS sets have you got?

The one set you see in the photos - took me 4 years of searching to get it !
Sadly, I missed out on a industrial-grey NCR G81,
I believe someone got it on DBA instead of a compaq-board selling for 50DKR
and that it is now in Norway with one of you guys ?

They sure Ass Hell beat any 'rubber-dome' I ever tried !
Wait, a linear switch beats rubber domes? That depends on whether you like linear or not.

Obviously, everything has been relative for almost a hundred years now
But if you learned to type properly on a mechanical typewriter, with 3 copies, you tend to type with a heavy hand
and those old MY's are perfect for that style ..

[Neal]

Bought a MY switch yesterday for 5 bucks. Keyboard in decent shape, just awful to type on though. Jikes!

[davkol]

Actually, my only complaint is that Cherry MY feel quite gritty on my G81-3000. I should have lubed them when removing the springs to get ghetto super-light switches (awesome for learning to touch-type BTW). I guess it'd be possible to print a new (matrix) foil at home, and make an DIY ergonomic keyboard this way. I don't think the exponential action is bad, because you don't have to bottom out ever—it's like o-rings-like dampening inside the switch.

[Peter]

I don't think the exponential action is bad, because you don't have to bottom out ever—
it's like o-rings-like dampening inside the switch.

Exactly !
Those old plate-mounted MY-switches where created for secretaries, trained to type 'properly' ..

Bought a MY switch yesterday for 5 bucks. Keyboard in decent shape, just awful to type on though. Jikes!

Yes, but are they the white PCB-mounted ones, like on most G81-1800 boards or
are they the black plate-mounted ones, like on Cherry's old G81-3000 pro-boards ?

[davkol]

I don't think the exponential action is bad, because you don't have to bottom out ever—
it's like o-rings-like dampening inside the switch.

Exactly !
Those old plate-mounted MY-switches where created for secretaries, trained to type 'properly' ..

Oh, well...

Horses for courses - they're not designed for touch typists really, just for 'one finger plodders', and although we've made the G81-3000 for many, many years and it continues to sell quite well, it doesn't have the best of feels to it. Personally, I can't use it as it makes my fingers ache, but I'm a touch typist and it's not surprising.

However, for certain applications - mainly in POS - it's perfect. When the keyboard isn't in use all the time and the user is just jabbing at the keys (we've sold these to builders merchants) and the user can be heavy handed, then they're a really good choice. In applications like this, MX boards with their simple PCB can be a little too 'flimsy', whereas the large metal plate inside gives the MY products an advantage. Bear in mind that one of our largest UK projects over 10 years ago was for Alliance & Leicester Buiding Society who ordered around 3500 of these and still use them today. The returns rate for mechanical/electronic failure has been practically zero - they're only affected by fluid damage....

[sauce]

[Neal]

Bought a MY switch yesterday for 5 bucks. Keyboard in decent shape, just awful to type on though. Jikes!

Yes, but are they the white PCB-mounted ones, like on most G81-1800 boards or
are they the black plate-mounted ones, like on Cherry's old G81-3000 pro-boards ?

White.

[davkol]

BTW mine are plate-mounted white.

[Peter]

I don't think the exponential action is bad, because you don't have to bottom out ever—
it's like o-rings-like dampening inside the switch.

Exactly !
Those old plate-mounted MY-switches where created for secretaries, trained to type 'properly' ..

Oh, well...

Horses for courses - they're not designed for touch typists really, just for 'one finger plodders', and although we've made the G81-3000 for many, many years and it continues to sell quite well, it doesn't have the best of feels to it. Personally, I can't use it as it makes my fingers ache, but I'm a touch typist and it's not surprising.

However, for certain applications - mainly in POS - it's perfect. When the keyboard isn't in use all the time and the user is just jabbing at the keys (we've sold these to builders merchants) and the user can be heavy handed, then they're a really good choice. In applications like this, MX boards with their simple PCB can be a little too 'flimsy', whereas the large metal plate inside gives the MY products an advantage. Bear in mind that one of our largest UK projects over 10 years ago was for Alliance & Leicester Buiding Society who ordered around 3500 of these and still use them today. The returns rate for mechanical/electronic failure has been practically zero - they're only affected by fluid damage....

[sauce]

Oh well..

..and the user can be heavy handed, then they're a really good choice. In applications like this, MX boards with their simple PCB can be a little too 'flimsy', whereas the large metal plate inside gives the MY products an advantage. Bear in mind that one of our largest UK projects over 10 years ago was for Alliance & Leicester Buiding Society who ordered around 3500 of these and still use them today. The returns rate for mechanical/electronic failure has been practically zero - they're only affected by fluid damage....

Now, you try 'touch-typing' in triplicate !

BTW : I would like one of those old black Access-IS building-society boards !