Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions

[davkol]

Ah, thanks. Screw holes appear to be in different places on at least one side compared to QFR, so that would indicate a no. I'd be quite happy, if I could just let a PCB lie in the case (presumably the bottom part, because it looks like the top part is the plate) and build another case for this keyboard.

[XMIT]

Yeah I was thinking that too. There is every chance that with a little modification this would just fit on top of an existing aluminum case. That would be really neat!

[andrewjoy]

Also is there any chance we can convince them to make the font less shit.

Almost certainly not, but, with Cherry stabilizers and pretty good key cap compatibility a swap will be pretty easy to do.

No huge issue , my thin PBT orange and black doubleshots have been growing on me . Still not quite up there with my imsto black on grey dye-subs but getting close.

Can you get a decent orange out of the RGB ?

[sethbc]

I'm interested.

[shreebles]

Ah, thanks. Screw holes appear to be in different places on at least one side compared to QFR

In my book, Filco MJ2 and QFR cases are not interchangeable, they are a bit different aren't they?

[davkol]

Ah, thanks. Screw holes appear to be in different places on at least one side compared to QFR

In my book, Filco MJ2 and QFR cases are not interchangeable, they are a bit different aren't they?

QFR has an extra standoff, that has to be removed for use with Phantom, but that's it, I believe.

[XMIT]

More e-mails. I'm still in some back and forth discussions with the manufacturer on more refinements. We're looking into thicker wire for the 50g springs to reduce pinging.

At this point I'll need to receive another prototype board before offering anything for sale. But we are getting close!

[kekstee]

Very interesting keyboard, if only for its insides. Also 50g linear is a choice I am perfectly fine with.
It is nice to see that you are trying to improve the key sound further.

If I had the choice I probably would have gone with frosted black acrylic for a layered case like this.
How does the sound compare between the acrylic and ABS case? Does the case flex or creak much?

Secondly, I really hope there can be a loophole for custom firmware, so we don't have to rely on their contractor getting it right. An accessible or changeable bootloader comes to mind, but I'm not well versed enough in microchips to know what current community projects can deal with and what would be possible with the controller mentioned earlier.

Also, I wouldn't mind not getting the cable and keycaps. Got plenty I actually like.

[lot_lizard]

XMIT... this occurred to me last week and I meant to post after some disapproval of the default option, but never did. Kekstee's point reminded me...

Have we asked them about selling just the inner assembly? So switches, PCB, integrated controller (lets assume the firmware is static for now)... but that's about it. Folks would be more inclined to "tinker", and might keep some of the costs and production times down, while keeping the quality up. Ultimately we could build the board they should be building (case, caps, USB connectors, etc.), and then have real feedback for them... ie... "Produce THIS".

[XMIT]

How does the sound compare between the acrylic and ABS case? Does the case flex or creak much?

The acrylic case feels much more solid, and the sound is a little deeper. I should post a sound comparison one of these days.

The ABS case maybe flexes a tiny bit. The acrylic case is quite solid.

[XMIT]

Have we asked them about selling just the inner assembly?

Anything is possible. The main idea is that there is a MOQ of 50 boards for just about anything, since that is the break point for automated soldering which yields higher quality.

If you want to build a new case to drop the existing PCB into, and want to save a few dollars (ABS cases are inexpensive), that would work.

The PCB design won't change, unless I can put together an order of 500 or so boards.

[XMIT]

I'm awaiting some feedback from the manufacturer about several points of retooling: improved springs that won't ping, improved stabilizers that won't bind, and possibly dampened upstrokes. (Downstrokes should be easy to dampen with landing pads but I have not experimented with this yet.)

So again, thank you for your patience as I work to bring the best Hall effect keyboard available to you.

[romevi]

I had bookmarked this a bit ago but never got around to reading it. Just now remembered it, and now seven pages long!

So the gist of it is that you found a company making these, but they have no retail boards, right? And you plan to bring a redesigned, market-ready board here through a GB?

[XMIT]

So the gist of it is that you found a company making these, but they have no retail boards, right? And you plan to bring a redesigned, market-ready board here through a GB?

Pretty much. I found the company that makes these, and I've been working with them for two months now through small improvements. It is a painstaking process requiring patience, attention to detail, and knowing which tradeoffs to make.

I don't yet know the mechanism of the group buy but I will announce how to buy my boards here when they are for sale.

[romevi]

Ah, that's great. Can't wait to the see final product.

[Powerslice]

I would definitely agree with those who said that keycaps coming with the keyboard should definitely be optional. The only thing is that we don't know what stabilizers the keyboard uses, so information on that would be greatly appreciated.

I am very excited for this group buy as this keyboard looks very cool.

[XMIT]

The board will use Cherry style stabilizers!

[Engicoder]

The board will use Cherry style stabilizers!

Good to hear!

[Powerslice]

Do you guys ever see this keyboard or keyboard design going beyond just group buys for keyboard enthusiasts? Also another question is will a neodymium magnet outside of the keyboard potentially cause interference with the mechanism?

[ohaimark]

I can't answer the first question, but the answer to the second... Depends on how big/strong the magnet is!

[XMIT]

Do you guys ever see this keyboard or keyboard design going beyond just group buys for keyboard enthusiasts?

Possibly. If the mechanism is really popular and works quite well I'll pursue larger distribution options. Best to roll it out in stages to minimize risk: 1 sample, 10 samples, 100 samples, ...

Also another question is will a neodymium magnet outside of the keyboard potentially cause interference with the mechanism?

Probably not, unless it's really strong.

For starters, the magnetic material composition really doesn't matter, let's focus on field strength alone. Granted, neodymium (rare earth) magnets tend to have really high field strength so that is a factor, but any "strong enough" magnetic field could trigger the Hall sensor.

I don't have a magnet on hand but let's say they are N42 grade neodymium, 3mm in diameter and 2mm tall, and the actuation distance is 2mm. This little calculator (I Googled for "magnetic field strength calculator") shows that the magnetic field strength is 900 Gauss at that distance.

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator. ... cType=disc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss_(unit)

That's pretty strong. A refrigerator magnet is about 100 Gauss. It takes a field of about 300 to 4000 Gauss to demagnetize a magnetic stripe card based on how it is made (transit passes are at the low end of this, credit cards toward the high end).

So, if you had a *really strong* magnet, and aligned the magnetic field with the axis of the Hall sensor, sure, you might see some spurious actuations. But that's pretty unlikely.

[xmagusx]

Dang, I would have loved to have gotten in on one of the review boards. Ah well, still wanted to express interest in exchanging money for one of these keyboards when possible. Especially if a tactile (but non-clicky) version becomes available! I love my old Micro HE switches, and am excited to see someone working with the technology again!

[di_duncan]

I just discovered this thread, and I was so genuinely interested that I made a DT account. I just wanted to ask a few questions. Can someone, anyone with or with experience using the prototype keyboard give a concise comparison between these Hall Effect switches and linear Gaterons and/or Topre switches? All three are known to be quite smooth, I would like to know which one is smoothest.

[XMIT]

Maybe someone else can comment, but without any switch action, these are just straight linears. The slider action is really smooth and supposedly improved even further in the latest revision. I'm still waiting on some new samples.

[Powerslice]

I just had a thought. Imagine if there could be a tiny rubber dome of sorts inside of the slider to simulate the feeling of Topre. It seems highly impractical but would be really cool if something like that could be implemented.

[XMIT]

This is something I'll keep in mind. Part of the problem is that the way the board is constructed there is not quite enough space for a Topre style rubber mat! So, we would probably need a new dome design.

[andrewjoy]

Maybe someone else can comment, but without any switch action, these are just straight linears. The slider action is really smooth and supposedly improved even further in the latest revision. I'm still waiting on some new samples.

Thats cool to know that they are even smoother.

If we could find out what ALPS used to lube the older ALPS switches is there any way we could get that on the sliders by default to make them even better ?

[XMIT]

I'm pretty sure the old Alps lube - described as powdery white stuff - is Teflon dry lube.

Maybe we can think about this for later but I don't think it is necessary. The sliders are POM, this is already plenty slippery. Plus every little change I make delays the group buy another week. I don't think anyone wants that at this point.

I'm pushing hard to get the last of the prototype boards sent my way this week.

[XMIT]

Alright, not too exciting, but I've placed the (hopefully) final order for prototypes. If these look good the next step is the group buy.

Also not too exciting, I've come up with branding! This logo will be on the back of the boards, on the printed manual (which I still need to write...), and on the box.

XMIT Keyboards logo!

XMIT-Keyboards-plain-small.png (9.94 KiB) Viewed 5902 times

The font is "Technic" which you can Google around for. The logo will probably evolve over time but this is a start.

[XMIT]

I placed the order for what are hopefully the final three prototypes today! Assuming we hit MOQ of 50 each, the first offering will be:

61-key black/acrylic with black keys and 50g springs;
87-key black/ABS with black keys and 50g springs;
87-key bamboo with white keys and 70g spring.

If the prototypes don't have any stop-ship issues I'll use them for photography for the group buy. Stay tuned in the coming 2-3 weeks!