Space Cadet Keyboard on eBay

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

18 Apr 2021, 22:48

darkcruix wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 22:24
It will end up very close to 10k ... a nice piece to put behind glass.
Sadly it doesn't ship across the pond ;)
I'd be happy to proxy it over in case someone needs that service.

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lispnick

19 Apr 2021, 00:38

I would love to put this under a 3d scanner but the price is too high already. When the time comes I probably reproduce it just from pictures, this time with switches and everything. It should not be that hard—the keycap profile is the same as on the 364000 model (correct me if I am wrong), of course, there are the stepped shifts and the spacebar is different but otherwise it looks exactly the same.

It is interesting how the layout evolved in the future models. I personally think it changed for the better. Of course, the 364000 model is less colorful, no upper and front legends, but they got rid of the huge gap between the right Control and Meta keys. I cannot imagine pressing Control-Meta-F (command ‘forward across one balanced expression’ in most LISP environments) on this board.

MMcM

19 Apr 2021, 01:09

lispnick wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 00:38
I cannot imagine pressing Control-Meta-F (command ‘forward across one balanced expression’ in most LISP environments) on this board.
When multiple shifts are involved, I use the ones on the left and hit the letter key with the right hand (no matter which side it's on).

Double_Shot_ABS

19 Apr 2021, 01:28

Please stop spreading false information. Last one in MINT condition was sold for only $4k a few months ago. The buyer was a DT member from Russia. The condition of this one is much worse than that one.

The more advertising this one gets on DT, the more it looks like the seller or his friends are doing the work here. On top of that, the bids have gone up to $5k TWICE in two days and went down. To be clear, this was only possible when there were at least two bidders, one of which made a maximum bid while the other trying to match it. It would not be possible for just one guy "gauging the market." Very sus already.

So please don't write a random large number and stir up the hype. There are still people who want to buy these in the future at an affordable price.

darkcruix wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 22:24
Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 05:50
Private listings always have a reason behind :mrgreen:
John Doe wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 05:34
4 days and 19 hs left, $3100 a new level.
It will end up very close to 10k ... a nice piece to put behind glass.
Sadly it doesn't ship across the pond ;)

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inmbolmie

19 Apr 2021, 17:50

Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:28
Please stop spreading false information. Last one in MINT condition was sold for only $4k a few months ago. The buyer was a DT member from Russia. The condition of this one is much worse than that one.

The more advertising this one gets on DT, the more it looks like the seller or his friends are doing the work here. On top of that, the bids have gone up to $5k TWICE in two days and went down. To be clear, this was only possible when there were at least two bidders, one of which made a maximum bid while the other trying to match it. It would not be possible for just one guy "gauging the market." Very sus already.

So please don't write a random large number and stir up the hype. There are still people who want to buy these in the future at an affordable price.

darkcruix wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 22:24
Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 05:50
Private listings always have a reason behind :mrgreen:
It will end up very close to 10k ... a nice piece to put behind glass.
Sadly it doesn't ship across the pond ;)
I suppose you are taking about this: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=5700&p=476646&hili ... et#p476646

That $4100 is not a serious price, the guy seem to have accepted the first offer he received that same day. The buyer just got incredibly lucky. My experience is that almost always with these kind of items, no-reserve auction price >>>>> BIN/offer price. You just have to wait a week for the money to come. The seller simply threw 2K-5K to the fire pit. The seller was a recycling company so maybe the guy running the ad just gave a fuck about the pricing and simply wanted to get rid of it the faster the better. Maybe he even got a praise from his boss for the great job.

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hellothere

21 Apr 2021, 00:50

Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:28
There are still people who want to buy these in the future at an affordable price.
I see this comment used here way too often. It bothers me. Are we supposed to set pricing guidelines? If so, I want to drop prices on brown Alps to what they were in 2009. I've got $25.

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hellothere

21 Apr 2021, 00:58

And, continuing, while this particular auction wasn't originally listed in the Great/Interesting Finds thread, I'm interested in both how much this sells for and how much other folks think it should sell for. I'm not in the market for one. I'm just interested.

Double_Shot_ABS

21 Apr 2021, 02:23

You missed the point. This is not about setting pricing guidelines but stirring up hypes by posting on DT, where dozens or even hundreds of potential bidders are, about how much xxx will sell for. It is one thing to guess the winning bid, yet it is quite another to say "it will be close to $10k." What do you think bidders who haven't done their research will construe this line? Of course they will think "oh so it's not too stupid for me to place a $9000 bid, someone values it for more. Even if I buy it now, there will always be a deep-pocket buyer out there."

Every sold item sets a reference point for future sales. There's no better example than the previous two F107 sales. Wait and see what the next F107 will sell for :)

hellothere wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 00:50
Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:28
There are still people who want to buy these in the future at an affordable price.
I see this comment used here way too often. It bothers me. Are we supposed to set pricing guidelines? If so, I want to drop prices on brown Alps to what they were in 2009. I've got $25.

micmil

21 Apr 2021, 03:58

It will sell for no less than $650,000. This number is absolutely based on fact I just made up, so you can't get mad.

Then again it seems a large percentage of people come here just to get mad so whatever.

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Weezer

21 Apr 2021, 05:29

It's like being upset that you can't get a rare coin for 10¢ because that's what the face value of the coin is. "Guys if we don't SAY silver is valuable, people won't think it's valuable!"

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Polecat

21 Apr 2021, 05:42

Weezer wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 05:29
It's like being upset that you can't get a rare coin for 10¢ because that's what the face value of the coin is. "Guys if we don't SAY silver is valuable, people won't think it's valuable!"
...or like being upset because someone who has gone through all their change for the last twenty years actually did find the rare one at face value, but you can't get the same deal at the push of a button...

Double_Shot_ABS

21 Apr 2021, 05:48

LMAO. Where do you think "face value" comes from? It comes from the market, which is in turn affected by people who stir up the hype on this forum by cluelessly exaggerating keyboard prices. Your "face value" logic is completely circular.

That being said, I completely understand those defenders of "face value" because they hold some nice collections and would LOVE to see keyboard prices skyrocketing, while those who just joined the vintage keyboard community can only have fun with white alps and model M.

Great job guys!
Weezer wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 05:29
It's like being upset that you can't get a rare coin for 10¢ because that's what the face value of the coin is. "Guys if we don't SAY silver is valuable, people won't think it's valuable!"

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Weezer

21 Apr 2021, 06:03

Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 05:48
LMAO. Where do you think "face value" comes from? It comes from the market
Uh, face value literally refers to the value printed on the face (obverse or reverse side) of a coin or bill. That's what the expression is a derivative of.
Polecat wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 05:42
...or like being upset because someone who has gone through all their change for the last twenty years actually did find the rare one at face value, but you can't get the same deal at the push of a button...
;)

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Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

21 Apr 2021, 06:49

Double_Shot_ABS wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 05:48
LMAO. Where do you think "face value" comes from? It comes from the market, which is in turn affected by people who stir up the hype on this forum by cluelessly exaggerating keyboard prices. Your "face value" logic is completely circular.

That being said, I completely understand those defenders of "face value" because they hold some nice collections and would LOVE to see keyboard prices skyrocketing, while those who just joined the vintage keyboard community can only have fun with white alps and model M.

Great job guys!
I gave up on trying to reduce market prices, most people don't seem to care anymore.

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Weezer

21 Apr 2021, 07:53

In order to reduce prices, the supply of keyboards needs to grow at a greater rate than demand, or demand needs to be reduced below the available supply. A big issue right now is that some of the older keyboards are better than the new ones. Right now there are a few hundred of these old sought after keyboards and many thousands of people who want them. Therefore there are two real world ways of bringing the prices down: Bring the old keyboards back into production, or make people lose interest in them by supplanting the older keyboards with better newer ones. People aren't going to buy or sell based on a code of ethics because they'll be at risk of being ripped off by the people they sell their stuff to, or at risk of having the price increased by the people who want the item more than they value holding the line.

Also Redmaus, did you still want the Displaywriter diskettes?

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zrrion

21 Apr 2021, 08:50

Weezer wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 07:53
demand needs to be reduced below the available supply.
I keep thinking someone with unpopular opinions should set up a youtube channel and review keyboards, that way they would influence some people who only listen to youtubers when making purchases and demand would go down

If anyone wants to send me their cool boards I'll happily bite the bullet and poorly review them :lol: otherwise I don't have enough boards to make a decent backlog with

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Weezer

21 Apr 2021, 09:19

That might be a funny meme. If you're serious I'd potentially be open to lending you an IBM something or other, but we'd have to be pretty close by because of shipping, and you'd have to double pinky promise not to ride off into the sunset with it.

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TNT

21 Apr 2021, 10:53

lispnick wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 00:38
I would love to put this under a 3d scanner but the price is too high already. When the time comes I probably reproduce it just from pictures, this time with switches and everything. It should not be that hard—the keycap profile is the same as on the 364000 model (correct me if I am wrong), of course, there are the stepped shifts and the spacebar is different but otherwise it looks exactly the same.

It is interesting how the layout evolved in the future models. I personally think it changed for the better. Of course, the 364000 model is less colorful, no upper and front legends, but they got rid of the huge gap between the right Control and Meta keys. I cannot imagine pressing Control-Meta-F (command ‘forward across one balanced expression’ in most LISP environments) on this board.
If you did that, you'd be a saint for me.

User avatar
Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

21 Apr 2021, 18:23

Weezer wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 07:53
In order to reduce prices, the supply of keyboards needs to grow at a greater rate than demand, or demand needs to be reduced below the available supply. A big issue right now is that some of the older keyboards are better than the new ones. Right now there are a few hundred of these old sought after keyboards and many thousands of people who want them. Therefore there are two real world ways of bringing the prices down: Bring the old keyboards back into production, or make people lose interest in them by supplanting the older keyboards with better newer ones. People aren't going to buy or sell based on a code of ethics because they'll be at risk of being ripped off by the people they sell their stuff to, or at risk of having the price increased by the people who want the item more than they value holding the line.
Yeah it's a tricky situation, when your keyboard is the most expensive thing on your desk. Hopefully we can get some better repros this decade.
Weezer wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 07:53
Also Redmaus, did you still want the Displaywriter diskettes?
Yes! I have been hella distracted lately my bad king

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inmbolmie

21 Apr 2021, 18:28

Redmaus wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 18:23

Yeah it's a tricky situation, when your keyboard is the most expensive thing on your desk. Hopefully we can get some better repros this decade.
You know something is very wrong when your keyboard is worth 10x or more than your whole desktop computer... :lol:

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Weezer

21 Apr 2021, 20:52

inmbolmie wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 18:28
Redmaus wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 18:23

Yeah it's a tricky situation, when your keyboard is the most expensive thing on your desk. Hopefully we can get some better repros this decade.
You know something is very wrong when your keyboard is worth 10x or more than your whole desktop computer... :lol:
What are you talking about, my space cadet keyboard and 14k gold RGB mouse look right at home on my Chromebook.
Last edited by Weezer on 21 Apr 2021, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Weezer

21 Apr 2021, 20:54

Redmaus wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 18:23
Yes! I have been hella distracted lately my bad king
No worries. Just send me a PM when you're ready.

MMcM

21 Apr 2021, 22:28

I have -- and not just for lolz -- connected a Space Cadet keyboard to a Raspberry Pi Zero.

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inmbolmie

21 Apr 2021, 22:43

MMcM wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 22:28
I have -- and not just for lolz -- connected a Space Cadet keyboard to a Raspberry Pi Zero.
56m907.jpg
56m907.jpg (79.87 KiB) Viewed 612 times

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hellothere

22 Apr 2021, 01:26

$3550, BTW.

I don't have any keyboards worth more than what's on my desk. Now, if I took my laptop off my desk, the stuff on my desk would still be worth more than any of my keyboards :( I'd need a very high-end Model F or a very low-end Beam Spring for the keyboard to be more valuable than what's on my desk. Don't any of you have multiple monitors? :D

inozenz

22 Apr 2021, 09:47

hellothere wrote:
22 Apr 2021, 01:26
$3550, BTW.

I don't have any keyboards worth more than what's on my desk. Now, if I took my laptop off my desk, the stuff on my desk would still be worth more than any of my keyboards :( I'd need a very high-end Model F or a very low-end Beam Spring for the keyboard to be more valuable than what's on my desk. Don't any of you have multiple monitors? :D
4051* the space cadet is going to the moon.😁

Out of curiosity, what is so special about the space cadet apart from being rare.

Not to be rude, but it's not particularly beautiful to me. Same goes for beamspring, but I can understand, that the beamspring has godly keyfeel and sound.

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AJM

22 Apr 2021, 11:01

inozenz wrote:
22 Apr 2021, 09:47
Out of curiosity, what is so special about the space cadet apart from being rare.
Not to be rude, but it's not particularly beautiful to me. Same goes for beamspring, but I can understand, that the beamspring has godly keyfeel and sound.
I agree.
Well, "being rare" is the main part.
And it has a lot of legends on a lot of keys - for many people that's appealing.
(What baffles me, is that despite the huge amount of keys - they are arranged in such an absurd way, that it would still be impossible to use some as a proper nav cluster.)
Oh, and the blue color.

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inmbolmie

22 Apr 2021, 11:13

I think this is one of the few things that is trully "collectible" besides its usability.

It is usable only if you:

a) Have the original LISP machine (almost impossible)
b) You want to revive the good ol' times of UNIX hackers, GNU and such, and get the genuine experience of using X11 and Emacs properly with their intended keyboard layout.

If you ask me, the case is pretty terrible looking BTW.

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raoulduke-esq

22 Apr 2021, 15:08

inozenz wrote:
22 Apr 2021, 09:47
Out of curiosity, what is so special about the space cadet apart from being rare.

Not to be rude, but it's not particularly beautiful to me. Same goes for beamspring, but I can understand, that the beamspring has godly keyfeel and sound.
I'd love to hear from someone who has one about the specialness from their perspective. Is it just the rarity? Is it your favorite layout/color scheme? Is it your favorite switch and that chassis is in your opinion the best for that switch? Is it your idea of the coolest looking board? Is it the history?

Aesthetics, layout, and feeling are of course highly subjective so what is ugly and unusable to someone who only likes ANSI RGB MX Blue might be epic to someone who can adapt to different layouts and likes a different look. Similarly, values can be different to everyone. Some folks bought their whole 100 keyboard collection in the early aughts for a total of $50 and they have an Unsaver, Beamship, Space Cadet, F107, Kishsaver, and anything else deemed desirable I'm leaving out for space concerns. Those getting a later start have their price anchoring reflex set at a different point.

Personally, I need to achieve a perceived value from the combination of feel/usability/appearance/rarity and in that order to arrive at a price I'm willing to spend. Was the price of a new F77 worth it compared to a F XT? Absolutely. Now that I have some keyboards with capacitive buckling springs would it be worth it to spend the going rate on a F122? Possibly if it was in good shape and had the blue sub-legends. Would it be worth it to me to spend $1500-2000 on getting those same capacitive buckling spring switches and design without the numpad if anyone ever decided to sell one? Likely no at my current income level, but after another $100-200k in raises perhaps. It's just a change in appearance rather than a change in switch, and there's a performance hit from having fewer keys even though it looks neat and is relatively uncommon. Was it worth it at our current income level to spend that amount on a completely different switch/layout/design/aesthetic that I regard as superior to the F series? Yep. Would I turn around and spend that same amount on another one with the same case but fewer keys? Nope. Would I spend that same amount again on one that has a proto-XT layout instead? Nope. Is this calculus going to be completely different to someone else? 100%

So after all my rambling- Space Cadet owners: what's your take?

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JP!

22 Apr 2021, 16:51

These Space Cadet keyboards have a legendary status steeped in the foundations of early hacking culture. Although it's design makes little sense in today's world as concepts and computer systems have changed it remains known to many decades later. Does it stand out among other keyboards as a historical artifact or is it simply a monument to design excess? Is it's appeal the pretty blue keys, key feel, rarity, or it's usability for those who use Emacs? It's like a piece of art that can be appreciated in a variety of unique ways. Do you find meaning or appreciation behind the ambiguous smile of the Mona Lisa? Or is it the mysterious gaze? Or perhaps you are not a fan at all and wonder what all the fuss is about?

Also how many keyboards have a cool song dedicated to them?

Double Bucky

Double bucky, you're the one!
You make my keyboard lots of fun.
Double bucky, an additional bit or two:
(Vo-vo-de-o!)
Control and meta, side by side,
Augmented ASCII, nine bits wide!
Double bucky! Half a thousand glyphs, plus a few!
Oh,
I sure wish that I
Had a couple of
Bits more!
Perhaps a
Set of pedals to
Make the number of
Bits four:
Double double bucky!
Double bucky, left and right
OR'd together, outta sight!
Double bucky, I'd like a whole word of
Double bucky, I'm happy I heard of
Double bucky, I'd like a whole word of you!

- The Great Quux

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